Flushing brake fluid did better than I thought

[bufbooth]

My brakes on my 1990 odyssey have been always a little soft, that is half petal of firmness. I have bleed the brakes for air and adjusted the rear brakes and that only helped a little. Last weekend i put on new rear drums and brakes and bleed the lines again and still not any better. I had a friend suggest to flush the brake fluid, so this morning i flushed 1.5 quarts through the brake lines. Got in the rv and fired her up, brake pedal was firm at the top and all worked great. The fluid that i flushed out was a little dark, guessing it was original.

[Derek up North]

I'm not really sure how you can 'bleed' the brakes without 'flushing' them at the same time.

[zero]

I agree with Derek. There was probably some trapped air in there that you finally got out after flushing all that fluid. Brake fluid - even old stuff with some moisture in it is still very hard to compress. A "flush" is a "bleed" unless you never opened up the front calipers (a favorite place for trapped air to hide).

[bufbooth]

My definition of bleed is to pump out brake fluid at each nozzle until one does not see any air bubbles, basically to give

each bleed point (right front caliper, left fron caliper, and left rear) a good 3 to 5 pumps with no air bubbles present.

My definition of a flush is to pump new fluid from the brake reserviour all the way though the system and through

each bleed point nozzle. In my case I knew I had done a flush when I finally saw clear brake fluild being pumped out

of each bleed nozzle. This required 1.5 quarts of brake fluid. During this process, I did not notice any air bubbles in the drain tube.

My fluid was a medium to dark brown in color, and from what I have read is that brown brake fluid indicates a high moisiture

content, and moisture will compress. I am pretty sure this is why I only had a half of a stiff brake pedal instead of a full

stiff brake pedal that I now have.

Some car manufactures recommend a flush from 2 to 5 years (depending on manufacture). I have owned my Toyota for

8 years and never did a brake fluid flush, and the guy I brought if from owned it for 3 years and never touched the brakes.

There is a good chance that my brake fluid might have never been flushed in the last 23 years.

Anyway, if your brake fluid is brownish in color, I would recommend a full brake fluid flush.

All one needs is an 8mm wrench, about a foot of clear tubing, an empty bottle (clear one works best), and a helper.

I did not have to take the tires off, just had to turn the front wheels one way or the other, and to crawl under the rear.

If one does not have a helper, they do have brake bleeder devices for about $35 that will suck the fluid out at each nozzle.

Dennis..

[Derek up North]

Here's my 1 man brake bleeder design that I've used for 45 years.

1 piece of clear tubing that fits the bleeder nipple;

1 bolt sized to plug the tube.

Plug the tube, use a sharp utility knife to make a clean slit along the length of the tube just above the bolt. The slit will act as a check valve. so you don't need an assistant to open and close the bleeder. Put the blocked end of your new bleeder in a clean jar with some brake fluid in it. The weight of the bolt will help keep the tube submerged. Open the bleeder and start pumping SLOWLY until you see clean, bubble free fluid. Done!

BTW, I always start with the wheel furthest from the master cylinder.

Hint 1: It'll take a bit of practice to figure out how many 'pumps' you can do before needing to add fluid to the M/C. Start small until you figure it out or you'll have to start all over again.

Hint 2: Before you start, use a syringe to empty the M/C reservoir of as much as possible of the dirty fluid and refill with clean. A lot easier then trying to pump it all through the system.

[zero]

I have a power bleeder but do not always use it. The adapters do not fit all master cylinders.

Poor man's way of bleedilng when all alone.

Find a stick that you can wedge between the brake pedal and front seat.

Jam it in tight and open a bleeder. Then repeat - many times.

Takes a lot of jumping around but works fine when in a pinch and all alone.

Most vehicles I bleed wind up getting a complete flush just by the bleeding process.

As to claiming success once you no longer see air bubbles? That rarely works for me. There is often trapped air that hides a bit and can fool you. Once the fluid looks clear - pump some more. Otherwise the brakes are likely to feel hard for short time and then get soft again (and need double pumping to stop).
Front caliper reservoirs are the most stubborn hiding places for air.

Where I live the biggest hurdle to brake bleeding is getting bleeder screws loose without breaking them off. Can't imagine doing it without a torch and heat.

As to the need to flush brake fluid every X amount of years or miles? I don't personally subsribe to it. Around here - brakes tend to get bled after brake lines rot off and have to be replaced. I replace all with cunnifer or monel - as has been done in Europe for years. It was pioneered by Volvo and BMW. Copper-nickel alloy that far surpasses OEM steel.

My 1998 Kia Sportage has 220,000 miles has just got it's first "flush" since the brake lines broke. I call that longevity; Keep in mind this gets driven in deep snow, salt,etc. every winter.

My 1995 Subaru Impreza made it to 180,000 miles before it's first "flush"- again due to broken rusted out brake lines.

My 1995 Geo Tracker has 140,000 miles and so far - all original brake hydraulics.

My 1979 Datsun 280ZX has never had a brake fluid flush while I've owned it . Got it in southern California in 1983 and it now has 140,000 miles. No winters though.

Wife's 1992 VW diesel Jetta got it's first "flush" at 150K after o-rings went bad in the wheel cylinders. Metal parts were fine - i.e. no moisture or corrosion damage.

One thing to watch for. If you get a vehicle that - after bleeding - gets air bound again in a few days. Check for 0-ring type wheel cylinders in back. Most wheel cylidners have lipped cups for seals but a few types use o-rings instead (like VWs and a few Jap makes). The o-ring types when worn can suck air in backwards everytime they retract.

[Derek up North]

Poor man's way of bleeding when all alone.

Find a stick that you can wedge between the brake pedal and front seat.

Jam it in tight and open a bleeder. Then repeat - many times.

Takes a lot of jumping around but works fine when in a pinch and all alone.

claiming success once you no longer see air bubbles? That rarely works for me. There is often trapped air that hides a bit and can fool you. Once the fluid looks clear - pump some more. Otherwise the brakes are likely to feel hard for short time and then get soft again (and need double pumping to stop).

Front caliper reservoirs

I used to do it that way, but since my first 'driver' was a 1962 MG Midget and I'm 6'-2" it wasn't a question of 'jumping in and out' at any time, let alone with a stick wedged between the seat and pedal!! I was glad to add the virtually free check valve to the system. In and out once every 10 pumps with no stick in the way.

[Derek up North]

I get the feeling that JD never buys new with zero miles! Neither do I. Closest I've come was company cars.

[zero]

I get the feeling that JD never buys new with zero miles! Neither do I. Closest I've come was company cars.

Most "new" vehicles that my wife and I buy have around 120,000 miles when we get them. 20 years ago my "to buy" figure was 60,000 miles but things have changed. Most of the time now adays when I see a vehicle advertised with "low miles" it means less then 150,000 miles.

Things have really changed. I remember when car dealers would not accept trade-ins unless they had less then 60K miles. That was just 30 years ago.

The miles mean little to me. For any car or truck I buy - it goes in my shop, up on the lift - and I check every moving part (within reason). Works well for us. I passed on my 87 Chevy diesel Suburban to my son in Colorado with 475,000 miles on it and it was running like new. Now has over 500,000K on it but he had to install a turbocharger to pass Colorado/Denver smoke inspection due to the altitude.

When my mom died, I took her 1970 Chevy Nova with 35K original miles on it. It was a worn out piece of junk. She lived in a NJ suburb and she put 35K miles on it over the span of 40 years. God knows if that poor car ever got driven enough to even get warmed up or driven over 30 MPH. 307 V8 and two-speed Powerglide trans.

My other bad experience was the first and last new car I'll ever own. After my wife's convincing - we bought a brand new Nissan Sentra in 1987 for $5700. It was the cheapest bare-bones model they sold at the time. Manual steering, four speed instead of 5, stabilzer bars omitted, etc. Probably the worst car I've ever owned. Engine blew at 60K miles and got "rebuilt" under warranty by Nissan. Then we sold it -quick.

I cannot imagine going into hock to buy a new 25K-35K car just to watch it depreciate. Not unless a person has money to burn. I'd lose sleep if had to pay just the sales tax on a new car or truck. I recently found out that the equivalent to my 92 Dodge diesel truck or my Ford diesel truck is over $50,000. Just the sales tax is twice what I paid for either of mine. I'd be hard pressed to spend $50K on a house. Last two I bought (last year) were $35K with 5 acres and $10K with 1/2 acre.

On a side-note - my daughter recently had her new Ford Escape repossessed. We bought/lent her a 2002 Toyota Echo for $1500 with 220,000 miles on it. She absolutely loves it. Getting near twice the MPGs as the Escape she lost. Car looks like new - but the rear frame is ready to break in half from rust (where it is not easily seen). I'd love to fine one in good shape but they are not common around here.

[zero]

I used to do it that way, but since my first 'driver' was a 1962 MG Midget and I'm 6'-2" it wasn't a question of 'jumping in and out' at any time, let alone with a stick wedged between the seat and pedal!! I was glad to add the virtually free check valve to the system. In and out once every 10 pumps with no stick in the way.

I've got a 1972 MGB sitting in my barn with supposedly 60K original miles. I drove it here to NY from southern NJ when a guy's wife threw him out and he gave me the car (around 20 years ago). Last metal-bumper MGB I think? If anybody wants one for a project - I'd sell it cheap. I'm cleaning out my barn and thinking about moving to northern MI. Going to save my 79 Datsun Z 2+2, but the MGB has to go.

[zero]

you let your daughter drive around in a car where the frame is ready to break in half? wow you really are a "thrifty"

Had a lot of cars do it. Especially Subarus. It's not a sudden process that puts someone in danger. When the frame finally lets loose - the car will sit lower and lower in the back and eventually the tires will start rubbing. They don't just "snap off." They bend. Once the tires rub, - it's ready for the junkyard. I stuck a block of wood in the back of my 92 Subaru Loyale 4WD wagon when it did it last March and managed to finish out the winter before I stopped driving it. Doesn't scare me at all, not does it my daughter.

So, yeah - I "let" her drive it, and she's lucky I (we) bailed her out again. Shes 32 years old and makes three times the money I ever made. She spends it just as fast (as many young people do). I have no retirement income other then SS and any additonal money I make comes from selling/fixing autos and farm tractors, scrap, home repairs, or real estate. My wife (14 years younger then me) is not working since she's home-schooling our 9 year old. She does some historic research and preservation/curatorial work on the side for living- history musuems - but no longer runs the local water-powered mill-site.

Two years ago we bought my daughter a 2000 Prizm (Toyota) with only 35K miles on it. Her husband at the time trashed it - even though our deal with her was he was not allowed to ever touch the car. It wound up in the junkyard and my wife and I were out $4400. Never got paid back a penny - yet. My daughter is not a little kid anymore and has a pretty good income. If anything - we should be hitting HER up for money. But she's getting better as she ages and has her own 7 year old daughter to take care of. So we help when we can. But Karin - to address any concern you might have for my daughter - she is free not to drive the Echo if she so chooses. At present, she is glad to have it and loves having NO payments (except for what she owes us that comes in drips and drabs).

[Derek up North]

Last chrome bumper 'Bs were 1/2 way through '74. I've got a '74 chrome bumper 'B GT in the driveway. AKA the 'Sabrina' model to those in the know. I'm the 3rd owner though it was only ever road registered by the original owner. I'll have to decline your kind offer of another MG project. I've already got several making no progress.

An Echo with a broken frame? Who installed a frame in the 1st place?

[zero]

Last chrome bumper 'Bs were 1/2 way through '74. I've got a '74 chrome bumper 'B GT in the driveway. AKA the 'Sabrina' model to those in the know. I'm the 3rd owner though it was only ever road registered by the original owner. I'll have to decline your kind offer of another MG project. I've already got several making no progress.

An Echo with a broken frame? Who installed a frame in the 1st place?

It's what they used to call "unibody" back in the days that most US cars had truck-like channel frames. This 2002 Echo has a rectangular boxed section of thin steel that supports the rear suspension that is part of the rest of the Toyota "bridge made from toothpicks." Call it a "sub-frame." It has a rust-hole in it a pair of squirrels could crawl through. It's an area that used to hold a steel peg that the rear exhaust insulator attached to. It looks as though the weight of the exhaust system plus rust - resulted in a large chunk of frame just pulling away.

Not sure if anyone makes a car with a separate stand-alone frame anymore? My 95 Geo Trackers have real frames. I think my Kia Sportages also have frames but neither are really "cars" I guess.

[zero]

Last chrome bumper 'Bs were 1/2 way through '74. I've got a '74 chrome bumper 'B GT in the driveway. AKA the 'Sabrina' model to those in the know. I'm the 3rd owner though it was only ever road registered by the original owner. I'll have to decline your kind offer of another MG project. I've already got several making no progress.

An Echo with a broken frame? Who installed a frame in the 1st place?

I always wanted a factory MG with the all-aluminum Buick 215 V8. Never happened though. I did build one a long time ago, long before MG did it at a factory option.

Those 215 GM aluminum V8s were pretty common at one time and most people were scared of them (due to the aluminum). Two guys after enough beers for energy could pick one up and stick it into a car with no hoist.

I wound up getting several Sunbeam Tigers instead. "Poor man's Cobra." Carol Shelby design although a poor one. 260 or 289 Ford cast-iron V8s and terrible steering (no Ackerman angle).

[Derek up North]

All aluminum Rover V8, which was the Buick/Olds V8 design with a few changes. Not super fast as they used the 137hp version from the Range Rover. They didn't want it faster than the Jag XKE!

[zero]

Its a joke JD....not a lecture about you as a parent.

No one who owns more than one car and has more than one motorhome could possibly call themselves thrifty. A parent who gives/loans cars to an employed daughter is not thrifty either.

I've never called myself "thrifty." I don't tend to call myself anything. Careful with money? H*ll yes. Same with my wife. Never had a debt in 30 years. We grow most of own food, my wife makes her own clothes (mostly). We heat our farm (along with hot water) with firewood. Our place runs on 110% solar electric. My wife still cooks at times on with a wood-fired bake oven and Rumford fireplace I built (all wood from our land). We built two houses with our own labor with no outside help from anyone. Just about never paid anyone for any sort of fix or repair for anything - except a few doctors and surgeons for medical fixes. I'd say that with four houses and maybe 50 pieces of equipment with internal combustion engines -we qualify as "frugal" by USA standards. We don't owe a penny on anything anywhere and our income is very low (on a relative scale).

[zero]

I buy and sell things to generate income. I do not live in four houses. Two are foreclosures I bought cheap to fix and sell. One I built myself to sell when done. Not sure how in your mind that excludes me from your "frugal" category. I guess by your standards - if I only owned one house and car with a $200K mortgage and $30K car loan - and had some desk-job that gave me a paycheck (whether I accomplished anything useful or not) - and paid others to do work I could do myself - I'd be frugal?

You have some strange and floating standards.

[gringo]

Good for you JD! your living the good life don't worry what catagory someone else will put you in.

Me:

two cars with over 200k on them paid for the day i got them, I'm set until they hit 350 or so.

My toy home paid for the day I got it 66K had to live in it after a devorce for a time.

Got a nice little home "forclosure' paid off the day i bought it far below market value.

I will never take out a loan for a car or anything else for tht matter and no Credit cards

why buy a full price car when you can find tons of cars with Low miles "120K" on CR fix them and drive or resell for a profit.

[zero]

is that social security disability income? I was just wondering as you said you are in a lot of pain and you were in that really horrific roll overJohn Deere tractor accident where an engine seized on you. If it is you have my sympathy as it is darned sure not a lot of money to live on even without trying raise a 9 year old with a stay at home mom.

I get old fashioned FDR type SS. Not disability. Years back I received NY disability for maybe 6 months. I then cashed in my 401K and lived off of it until it was gone. I was involved in two tractor accidents and sounds like you've got bits and pieces from both rolled into one. Late 80s I got run over by a Massey Ferguson MF35 and it broke my neck. That wasn't my doing. Somebody else was in the tractor seat, foot slipped of the clutch pedal, and ran over me. Early 90s I was moving some heavy three-point-hitch Cat. 2 equipment down a steep hill with a John Deere 3020. While doing so, the engine stalled and the transmission popped into neutral. This model Deere was equipped with full power steering - NOT power assist like cars and trucks have. So, once the engine died there was no connection between the steering wheel and the wheels. Also had full power brakes unlike any modern car or truck. So again - without the engine running, NO brakes whatsoever. So, once it popped into neutral, I was moving pretty fast and heading straight for a big maple tree. I jumped off before it crashed and snapped both my legs in two, sideways. Might of been going 40 MPH? Worst part of that deal was I knew that tractor was a piece of junk and did not want to use it. I was moving farm equipment from one place to another. I was doing it with my very safe International Harvester tractor but it had a very road speed. The move from farm to farm was 4 miles. My neighbor was almost "insisting" I use his Deere because it was bigger and faster. I refused several times and finally took him up on his offer, so his feelings would not be hurt. Oh well. Stuff happens. My brother never got his hands dirty in his life. Never even had a driver's license,, never smoked, rarely drank, Erudite MIT lifer in Cambridge, Mass. and he's 6 feet in the ground. My mom was a heavy drinker and a smoker and lived to age 98. Outlived my brother. You never know.

[waiter]

Don't make me stop this car.....

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 auto

[DanAatTheCape]

changing brake fluid at least every decade is a good idea. old lfuid holds moisture which is not good. cheap & easy -- I use the technique of having an assistant pump the pedal, then I open the bleed valve * after a squirt comes out, then I close it & tell him to pump again. not the easiest way but works for me. I keep doing it till I get clean fluid from all 5 beeld valves (don't forget proportioning valve bleed).

takes one of the large bottles of brake fluid.

[zero]

Most of those rural guys have a tractor cap cafe to go hang out in. A place where they can impress the waitresses and each other with tales of rusting vintage equipment they have resurrected from the dead. A place where they can complain about their families and the government. A place where they can relive their glory years and brag about how frugal they are, how much wood they chop,what kind of pickup they drive. I guess he does not have that kind of cafe/self-help therapy outlet so this forum is his replacement for it.

Hey Karin . . . going by your vast claim of knowledge - I assume you actually KNOW "most rural guys" you speak of? Or do you just make things up as you go along? If you DO actually know "most rural guys" - I kind of wonder what you do for a living?

If you have something to say directly pointed towards me - then why not "be a man" and say it directly without all the BS innuendo. PM would be more appropriate than on this "old Toyota RV forum." Is not this a place where people "rehash tales of vintage equipment" related to Toyota? A behavior you seem to look down upon?. I suspect (but do not claim to know) . . . you need an adjustment in your antidepressant prescription.

As I see it, your feeble attempts to knock a few others down is your way of elevating yourself? Seems there are more constructive ways to do it. Try getting smarter. Practice your reading comp-skills. Pontificate as needed, but I haven't seen anyone behave as poorly as you on these forums except maybe your kindred-spirit, Stamar.

If you want to try to tower over me with your "non rural" wits, knowledge, skills, education, etc. &c. - send me a private message.

[zero]

kettle said the pot, you are too black.

In other words why didn't you use a private message to say this?

Most of those rural guys have a tractor cap cafe to go hang out in. A place where they can impress the waitresses and each other with tales of rusting vintage equipment they have resurrected from the dead. A place where they can complain about their families and the government. A place where they can relive their glory years and brag about how frugal they are, how much wood they chop,what kind of pickup they drive. I guess he does not have that kind of cafe/self-help therapy outlet so this forum is his replacement for it.

I have never attacked or accused anyone on this forum for words they never wrote, nor for things they never did. To the converse, you have done it several times. Very easy to verify since it's all here in digital print. YOU are the one that went on rant about me hijacking a thread that I actually started. YOU are the one that claimed I stated things about black cherry that I never said. Not even remotely. Subsequently it seems to me that you, at times, feel a need to attack people who have not tried to provoke you. Not sure if it's due to your misreading , or based in delusion. So yeah - if that is what you need to do - why not do it privately? I don't feel a need to do it when coming to this forum - unless provoked.

You stated I come here since I have no coffee shop to hang out at and "relive my glory years." I come here to share, and gather information since I do not claim to know everything. That being said, I was probably rebuilding engines when you were in diapers and playing with your dolls (Barbie or Ken, I'm not sure). I share what I know, and ask about what I don't know. As to reliving my "glory years." When were they? When I got a government paid vacation as a teen to tropical paradise of Viet Nam? When I worked 60 hours a week as a grease-monkey for 40 years? NO, I don't attempt to relive my past. I take some things from the past that still work for me and continue to use them. THAT is different. That is what many of us of doing when we use 30-plus year old Toyota RVs.

RE your myopic comments about rural people? I'm not sure what your working connotation of the word "rural" is. Where I live right now is what I considered quasi-rural 40 years ago. Less rural now by my definition. If I can walk a mile with a loaded gun and not have people call the police, it's one indicator. If I can drive 20 miles and not see a single stop sign or traffic light, it's another. If I can leave the keys in my car and never lock my house, yet another. A friend of mine moved from Hudson Bay, Canada to the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont because he said he could not stand the "rural" life in Hudson Bay. So, to him -the backwoods in the Northern Vermont is suburban.

People who have "rural lifestyles" here tend to be from families that have been here since the late 1700s, early 1800s. Most are dairy farmers, loggers. mechanics, dirt-movers, etc., &c. I.e. self-employed. I do not know a SINGLE person that hangs out in a coffee shop. A few bars at night, yes. I suspect maybe you got that stereotype from a movie or TV show? As to those who wear "tractor caps?" The only ones I know that wear them are the guys that went bald at age 30. I don't know anyone with hair that wears one. YES there is a coffee shop (sort of), downtown. It's a Stewart's Shop. The people who hang out there are retired school teachers, state workers, layed off union people from GE, etc. and most if not all are transplanted urbanites. The people I know who are "rural" tend to work their entire lifes. NO retirement, no f*rting around, sipping Latte at some café. I work more 7 days a week most of the time and probably always will.

I don't pretend to know how ALL rural people live, but I certainly know how they live here and in northern Michigan. Few if any match your depiction.

That being said - here's guy that almost fits your archetype rural man, Karin. He's angry, from a rural family, he's a diary farmer - and he tried to hang out and have coffee in the local Stewart's Shop . . but did not fit in. No "tractor cap" though. He's around 60 years old and still has hair. Actually, he didn't ever want to "hang out" at the coffee shop. But his barn and milking parlor is directly across the street from the new Stewart's Shop. So, when he gets done milking at 7 AM or 7 PM, he walks across the street to get coffee. Seems some of the "city people" who DO hang out there complained about him because he "smelled like a barn." So off it went - a feud started. Not long after he had many angry signs put up in front of his barns. The county district attorney got involved. So did the local law enforcement which amounts to one NY forest ranger (Mark Vencak). Pretty soon this guy was mad at most of the town and tried to run for office. Someone from the Stewart's Shop repainted one of his signs and put "idiot" on it. The farmer (Dan Stannard) left it as is as sort of a "badge of honor." I like the guy and he has some legitimate gripes. Not sure he'll get too far though, the way he is addressing them.

By the way - I asked Dan why he had the Obama sign there since I know he's no fan. He did it because it rates as a "political sign" and makes it harder for the County to remove it.

[linda s]

Perhaps both of you should refrain from this petty bickering. I have sent a link of this thread to the owner of the website. You both compromise your integrity and put a shadow on the many other good things and advice you offer. Enough

Linda S

[snail powered]

Perhaps both of you should refrain from this petty bickering. I have sent a link of this thread to the owner of the website. You both compromise your integrity and put a shadow on the many other good things and advice you offer. Enough

Linda S

OK, no problem! I have put jdemaris on ignore status.

[waiter]

Thank you Linda, Very eloquently said.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[bufbooth]

Since I started this discussion...if anything gets posted that one is not interested in reading, just don't read it, or at least don't reply to it.

I did not see anything wrong with what Jdemaris was posting until he was replied to twice, which forced him to clarify his statements.

If this posting thread ends up disappearing, so will I.

Dennis...

[rad wolfe]

Hi Dennis,

I agree.

I joined this group for both the great information available and to enjoy the company of like-minded individuals.

(Un)provoked attacks,disputed expertise,political posturing tend to reveal more about the sender rather then the receiver.

I generally enjoy the posts of both JD & KC but I'd be suprised if they've ever met except on-line . Maybe I'm wrong but I think cognitive dissonance may come into play here as it's always a shock when "like-minded" individuals turn out not to be.

Rad Wolfe

[Sunnynshare]

Since I started this discussion...if anything gets posted that one is not interested in reading, just don't read it, or at least don't reply to it.

I did not see anything wrong with what Jdemaris was posting until he was replied to twice, which forced him to clarify his statements.

If this posting thread ends up disappearing, so will I.

Dennis...

I agree as well. I believe that much is revealed in people's unaltered postings. I abhor sites that attempt, at their own risk, to mold people's comments into something the moderator believes to be more acceptable. In fact, a few weeks ago I looked and looked for something that I had read and was unable to find it. Then someone commented that they had "dusted" the comments, newspeak for censored. That is disrespectful to the readers and posters, implying that we are too dumb to separate the wheat from the chaff and/or so sensitive that we need protection. Kim