Replacing tranny, gas lines, etc--maybe brake? other maintenance Q for the rarely used...

[tlava]

Just bought a vehicle in WI (a one-owner, 84 Bandit with a 22RE--body in great shape, since it had been garaged--even still has gloss!-, but driven very little (over last 16 yrs only 13k miles)--74 k total on rig

The car has been dealer maintained, but they told the previous owner not to worry about changing the timing chain, so I guess that should be changed? no noise at start up, though...

Things I've concerned about: a shake/rough idle (no misses)-I have a separate post about this

since it is a WI vehicle, there is quite a bit of surface rust on undercarriage--more than I'm accustomed to seeing--,I guess the owner never bothered to rinse the road salt off the undercarriage-- and the lines are rusty in places--should I replace all the lines, preventatively, and what might I expect to spend?

also wondering if the frame should be treated, and what that might run into--I guess it can't be sand blasted--should I just scrape the loose rust off and spray coat with undercarriage coating? DYI?

The frame member in rear that holds the spare tire also has some flex in it--don't know if this is a problem, singe it is a thin, L-bracket to begin with (the type you often find as cross members in the old trailers) though an easy enough DYI replacement, I guess...?

amazingly, the hood air vents have not rotted out and so the floorboards are in excellent shape--since I guess this has been consistently garaged.

I'm also wondering if there is anything else I should do--should I add a tranny cooler? should I do an engine flush and add a quart of Rislone, just to condition rings a bit if the vehicle has had little use? most of the use over last several yrs has been around town, rarely over 45 mph, according to owner 92 yr old orig owner...

BTW--this is an "Xtracab," which I have not run into before--any clever suggestions about what to do with the extra ---I guess about 16--24"?

[zero]

Just bought a vehicle in WI (a one-owner, 84 Bandit with a 22RE--body in great shape, since it had been garaged--even still has gloss!-, but driven very little (over last 16 yrs only 13k miles)--74 k total on rig

The car has been dealer maintained, but they told the previous owner not to worry about changing the timing chain, so I guess that should be changed? no noise at start up, though...

Things I've concerned about: a shake/rough idle (no misses)-I have a separate post about this

since it is a WI vehicle, there is quite a bit of surface rust on undercarriage--more than I'm accustomed to seeing--,I guess the owner never bothered to rinse the road salt off the undercarriage-- and the lines are rusty in places--should I replace all the lines, preventatively, and what might I expect to spend?

also wondering if the frame should be treated, and what that might run into--I guess it can't be sand blasted--should I just scrape the loose rust off and spray coat with undercarriage coating? DYI?

The frame member in rear that holds the spare tire also has some flex in it--don't know if this is a problem, singe it is a thin, L-bracket to begin with (the type you often find as cross members in the old trailers) though an easy enough DYI replacement, I guess...?

amazingly, the hood air vents have not rotted out and so the floorboards are in excellent shape--since I guess this has been consistently garaged.

I'm also wondering if there is anything else I should do--should I add a tranny cooler? should I do an engine flush and add a quart of Rislone, just to condition rings a bit if the vehicle has had little use? most of the use over last several yrs has been around town, rarely over 45 mph, according to owner 92 yr old orig owner...

BTW--this is an "Xtracab," which I have not run into before--any clever suggestions about what to do with the extra ---I guess about 16--24"?

I wouldn't worry about the chain if it was mine. The chain and gears are all metal unlike a lot of older GMs that used plastic coated gear teeth. Also has a tensioner unlike GM. So wear is gradual over time and not all-of-a-sudden when plastic chunks break off the gears.

Depending on how rusty those brake lines are - I'd be apt to replace any of them that have any pitting. It's a crime that just about all autos in the US used such poor material for something as important as brake lines (steel). In Europe cunnifer or monel is the standard. Much more rust resistant (copper-nickel alloy). You could replace every metal brake line in that truck for $100 if you buy the copper-nickel brake tubing in rolls and flare it yourself. Premade steel lines like Advance Auto and NAPA sells are crap and last around 2 years where I live (even the vinyl covered ones).

The Toyota truck frame is very thin. More like sheet metal that frame-quality channel steel. If rusty, I'd wire brush it and put some rust neutralizer on there and then paint it. Spraying undercarrriage coating under there is likely to make it worse in the long-run. It gets poor adhesion on an old frame and often traps pockets of moisture. I would NOT sand-blast it if it were mine. Just a light wire-brush job and then apply rust converter/neutralilzer.

Adding a cooler to an automatic trans certainly never hurt anything unless you drive a lot in severe cold and the cooler lacks a thermostat. OEM trans coolers are often also trans heaters.

[tlava]

Thanks!--so just the brush-on rust converter stuff and undercoating paint or just the black Rustoleum auto paint (I think they make one specifically for undercoating purposes)

The main frame members seemed pretty typical--didn't suggest sheet metal--but maybe I need to look more closely... though the thin cross member holding the spare tire apparatus did definitely sound like what you are describing...

Oh. also, the tranny and maybe fuel lines seem to have the worst of it--but I think I would have a shop to it, rather then mess with it myself, so wondering what I'd get into, Can they be replaced with non-metal lines?

[fred heath]

The best thing to use on your frame is old motor oil. Paint will just hold the rust in. Unless you can get inside every nook and cranny rust is there to stay. Scrape all the loose stuff off. A piston pump sprayer (like you use in your garden) should work fine. The wand will also go inside those hard to reach areas of the frame.

Like JD said, if the brake lines are rusty or pitted they should be replaced.

I did all mine at the same time. One less thing to worry about.

[zero]

Thanks!--so just the brush-on rust converter stuff and undercoating paint or just the black Rustoleum auto paint (I think they make one specifically for undercoating purposes)

The main frame members seemed pretty typical--didn't suggest sheet metal--but maybe I need to look more closely... though the thin cross member holding the spare tire apparatus did definitely sound like what you are describing...

Oh. also, the tranny and maybe fuel lines seem to have the worst of it--but I think I would have a shop to it, rather then mess with it myself, so wondering what I'd get into, Can they be replaced with non-metal lines?

Rust needs to be sealed from moisture. No conventional paint that I know of works very well when put directly on rusty metal. That's why you need a converter. Brush on or spray on. Brush on is kind of difficult to get into tight places. As Mr. Heath stated - motor oil does a great job if you treat it repeatedly on an on-going basis. I've worked on many a super rusty truck that was rust-free where there were oil leaks. Especially at the rear of the transmission where there always seems to be some oil loss.

Brake lines could in theory all be high-pressure hydraulic hose but the price would be nuts and it's not needed. You just need metal lines that don't rust. Copper-nickel has been the #1 choice in Europe for many years and is now becoming more common here. Volvo was the first to use it in all their cars. Then BMW, etc., &c. It bends and flares easy and is MUCH more rust resistant then galvanized steel. Flarable stainless steel is also available not but cost a lot more then the copper-nickel tubing. $2 per foot at NAPA an;$1.50 per foot at Advance Auto.

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By the way - when I said the Toyota has a frame like sheet metal - it was a bit of hyperbole. It's thin on a relative scale and can easily be dented with a ball pein hammer. Especially on the inside of the frame rails. You can't do that to the frame on a Ford or Chevy 3/4 ton truck. Plenty of enough steel there when it's not rusty but gets "iffy" pretty quick when it's been coated with road salt and water for a few years.

[tlava]

Hmmm--same stuff (copper/nickel) on tranny and fuel lines? is this the same stuff used for propane lines?

How often would one have to do the oil treatment, for example?

[tlava]

I read the instructions on the rust converter stuff which state that there must be some rust on the metal for the chemical to work, but also that if you get the chemical on metal that is NOT rusted that it may actually cause rust, so then I guess there will then be rust for it to treat--what the heck? Maybe I'd do better to let a shop treat the frame?

[Maineah]

Have a look at Fluid Film (http://www.fluid-film.com/.) Can be sprayed on with some thing like a Wagner electric paint gun or they sell rattle cans also. I use it on my car/trucks and farm equipment and it does do exactly what they say it will.

[tlava]

Thanks for link--would the idea be to scrape of loose rust first, then either apply rust converter or paint the frame with Rustoleum, and THEN coat with the fluid, or skip the othter stuff and just coat with the fluid? i.e, do you think this will this prevent the current rust from spreading/worsening, as well a prevent new rust/additional? How often would it have to be reapplied, in your experience?

[fred heath]

You will not get the rust inside the frame rails. Do not put any type of undercoat on. It will just seal in the rust.

Scrape, and spray with old motor oil.

Renew every year, you should be fine.

[Orion3]

Not sure how to ask questions here. I apologize in advance. Elderly friend of mine has a 1987 Toyota Escaper. I'm looking for any info or links to information on replacing the fuel line. I can't seem to find anything online. Size. Any fittings. Would I have to drop the tank? Thanks.

[Maineah]

Thanks for link--would the idea be to scrape of loose rust first, then either apply rust converter or paint the frame with Rustoleum, and THEN coat with the fluid, or skip the othter stuff and just coat with the fluid? i.e, do you think this will this prevent the current rust from spreading/worsening, as well a prevent new rust/additional? How often would it have to be reapplied, in your experience?

The fluid film will not cure rust but it will stop it. If there is scale scrape it off. The old timers for years used motor oil it is against the rules now I even remember them spraying them with red lead. The fluid film is really the same thing but is lanolin oil and is non toxic. Frankly if I was going to coat my ride with motor oil I think I would spring for cheap new oil the used stuff have all kinds of nasty stuff in it.

[Maineah]

Not sure how to ask questions here. I apologize in advance. Elderly friend of mine has a 1987 Toyota Escaper. I'm looking for any info or links to information on replacing the fuel line. I can't seem to find anything online. Size. Any fittings. Would I have to drop the tank? Thanks.

The fuel pressure is very high (around 35 PSI) so no rubber joints and the fittings are special and yes you'll have to drop the tank.

[Skydancer2992]

I once had a fuel leak on the road; pulled into an Autozone in Albuquerque, NM and crawled underneath.

Looked like a mouse had been eating at the fuel line near the fuel tank.

Pulled the hose off, simple clamp type fittings onto the metal tube that goes forward to the engine.

The normal fuel line was out of stock but they sold me some fuel injection hoze that looked about the same but was a higher grade. I bought several extra feet as a precaution.

Replaced about a foot of fuel line. Washed up in the Autozone facilities and was on my way.

The fuel lines above the tank looked like ordinary fuel line.

[Totem]

The rust converter, after applied also recommend that you prime and paint it or seal it within 24 hours of curing. I am shocked no one in here suggested POR-15... thats the ticket IMHO.

http://www.por15.com/

[tlava]

Heyy--so does anyone have any experience with the Por stuff? One app would seem better than yearly app of Fluid Film--but will it work? is FF still better?

What would be the diff, say, between paining with Por and coating with fiberglass resin?

[tlava]

putting in all new brake, trann, gas lines. About $600.00-$700.00 I guess w/tax.

RE fluid film: does anyone know what typr of wagner spray gun to get? there are different types for thicker or thinner mixtures...

[Totem]

POR should be rolled or brushed on.

[tlava]

Yes--I was asking about the Fluid Film. POR is pretty expensive; I bought a quart and will try it on the cab itself--areas under the fenders where some surface rust is starting.

I think treating the frame sounds like FF is a better choice, but not sure what type sprayer to use...

[Totem]

I have a wagner; most important thing on a Wagner is cleaning the orifices after you are all done. If that wasnt done last time dont use it or start with new one.

Bug Sprayer is always a cheap and easy coater also. Schultz on a compressor also fine job.

[tlava]

So a garden bug sprayer would be as good w/ the FF?

RE wagner: I checked Home Depot or whoever sells those, and the problem is, there are several different models, depending on the thickness/type of material being sprayed, so I wasn't sure which one to get...

[Totem]

I'm not a Wagner fan for certain things but am for others. In this case it might work well. standard model should have the attachments for thicker applications.

The big problem with them is the time you save on brushing/rolling you lose in taping and cleanup of the unit which must be dismantled down to its jets springs and nozzles.

Get a garden sprayer that comes with a fan tip; boom for cheapest application. You will waste more material with a garden sprayer than the wagner though but save by not buying the wagner

[tlava]

What's "boom"? I think most of the tips are adjustable for fan or stream? I may be wrong...

[Totem]

sorry, my kids have me saying that a lot now (boom). Fan tip is not the same thing as an adjustable tip on a bug sprayer. The adjustable tip can make an atomized spray or a stream but the droplets will spray out in a cloud designed to coat a plant from above. You will be spraying up from below so you will want a fan tip as not to waste material and direct more towards the undercarriage putting as much in that direction but not streaming.

Fan tips are good for staining decks also.

[tlava]

wow--OK--so these can be bought for your garden-variety garden sprayer? HD, Lowes, WM, or...? I think I have a cheap pump sprayer--which I guess is what we are talking about?

[Totem]

yep cheapo pump sprayer with fan tip. if yours doesnt have fan tip then you should buy new sprayer that comes with one. they are pretty cheap like 10-20 bucks

[Totem]

or if you have a compressor a shultz gun would work well also

[Motion_man1]

How do you all prep your area and motorhome for removing rust and applying spray-on products like rust neutralizer? I've never lifted our 1985 Mirage to work on it and definitely don't want to make a mistake.

I plan to put a tarp or sheet down on flat driveway, drive motorhome onto it and jack it up to put blocks underneath after I research the safest way to do so.

Any advice on safely working on undercarriage would be greatly appreciated.

[Totem]

if rust proofing the under carriage I would look into a product called POR15...

it paints on with minimal prep and has a cult following of people that swear by it. It turns rust into a thick black paint.

http://www.por15.com/

yep, tarp, blocks, paper suit, resperator, brush and couple cans of POR and your rig will outlast you.

[jjrbus]

Por is a great product, but I cannot see it being great for this application. It is ideal for easy to access areas. But the underside of a vehicle is full of nooks and crannies where it would be difficult to apply Por.

Behind lines, under clamps, seams would all be easier to reach with a spray type product. an oily product would also migrate into seams.. I would also want to spray inside frame rails and such. Drilling access holes in body and spraying cavity's is also on my list, just like regular rustproofing shops do. Plastic plugs are available to plug the holes when done and they can be removed.

Only my opinion, not to be mistaken for wisdom or professional advice. JIm SW FL

PS the "old timers" also mixed kerosene into their oil to help it migrate into seams, using garden sprayers was common. Lamp oil is better, it is deodorized kerosene and smells much better.

[Totem]

well his question involved rust neutralizer which I am not a fan of because it needs to be followed by paint; its just an oxidizer otherwise and will cause more rust.

True enough, you could also just take a bug sprayer and spray some oil all over the under carriage and in nooks etc but thats more of a yearly approach. If the concern is the frame going bad I stand by POR as being awesome even if you cant reach everywhere. personally i dont even bother and let mine rust. Im in Michigan so mine had surface rust on the frame already from salty roads. I figure by the time the frame is rusted gone I will also be long gone.

[zero]

I've spent many years living in the rust belt of NY and dealing with corrosion from road-salt. Probably the best thing there is for protection is motor-oil sprayed underneath. Obviously not practical though.

I've used POR-15 and also Zero Rust. Neither exceeded the other in anything I've done. Both work well IF you clean the area first and that's the major hurdle. Protection means forming a waterproof barrier on the metal so acid cannot allow electrolysis to happen. No product is going to work when applied to scaley metal of metal with flakes of heavy rust on it.

Last few vehicles I worked on that already had a lot of road-rust. I had to use a scraper and a welding pick-hammer and knock all the old scale loose before coating with a chemical like Zero Rust or POR-15. A lot of work, yes. But I know of no easy option.

I also suggest that when replacing any gas lines or brake lines, do NOT buy lines from your auto parts store unless they are Monel or Cunnifer. Galvanized steel or vinyl-covered tubing is a waste of time and money. Cunnifer has been required in Europe for many years for brake lines but NOT in the USA. Places like NAPA sell it in 50 or 25 foot rolls but you have to ask for it. Be prepared for a look from the parts person like you get from a "deer in the headlights." Cunnifer is a copper-nickel alloy that flares easy and endures road salt. It was first pioneered by Volvo in the 70s.