Ritabago's Dad Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 For a recent history of my Toy, see this thread. The story picks up shortly after my last visit to Toyota with a repaired centerlink, which wasn't cheap - but being able to steer is nice. My latest visit has to do with a power-steering fluid leak, which is being fixed, and another issue upon which I'm seeking some advice. Some time ago, I discovered that some critters had built a little nest in a corner of the engine compartment out of the heat-resistant material that used to be attached to the underside of the hood. I don't know how important that stuff is, but it was mostly gone when I got the RV and pretty much finished by these little varmints. After cleaning that out (there were also leaves and nuts under there), life went on and I thought nothing more of it. Then, one day, while getting an oil change at one of those Quick Lube places, one of the techs went to adjust one of the wires leading to the distributor cap and got a big shock. He said he was fine (and that it hurt!) and I noticed almost immediately that the engine began to idle choppily. The idle has been great up until that point. A little time passes and the idle gets smooth again, then sometimes it's choppy, and so on and so forth. Finally, while it's in for the power-steering fluid issue today, I ask them to check on that and they reveal that there are exposed wires in two places and that it looks like it's been nibbled at or rubbed away, with nothing spinning nearby. I conclude that it was probably the critters and ask them how much to fix. After quoting me a grand total of $1,669 for the whole thing PLUS tax, I ask them to forget about the rough idle, because I can live with that. The power-steering thing, not so much - that needs fixing ASAP, right? My question is: how serious is this exposed wire situation? It doesn't seem to effect starting or cruising at city or highway speeds. It just makes my Toy purr a little rough. Can someone explain to me mechanically what is causing that roughness and, if not fixed right away, will it cause any kind of further damage? What's a typical and/or worse case scenario? It would take a major biting of the bullet to take care of both issues, so I'm trying to prioritize. But if this could turn ugly quick - then I'll just go ahead and have it all fixed at once and eat Top Ramen for the foreseeable future. I appreciate any help/insight/wisdom as I try to stay on top of, and listen to, my sweet little Rita. Many thanks - Bing '92 Winnebago Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydancer2992 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 If you replace the spark plug wires yourself, the cost will be under $20. You can find the wires HERE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinite no longer here Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Ritabago's Dad, What wires are exposed? If they're spark plug wires, just buy a new set and put them in yourself. If the exposed wires are elsewere, like say in a bundle of wires, try to wrap the individual bare wires with plastic electrician's tape-lots of it. It should be a reliable fix although maybe a somewhat temporary one. $1700 sounds like they want to replace the whole wiring harness for the truck. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydancer2992 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 To expand a little, the plug and coil wires are high voltage but low amperage. They can give you a jolt for a split second, like a farmer's electrified fence. Most likely, some of the electricitiy is arcing from the wires to the nearest metal surface, and not going to the intended spark plug, causing a misfire. A lot of misfires and you get rough idle and poorer gas mileage. Thecontinued arcing is causing increased damage to the remaining insulation as well as stressing your coil. If it gets bad enough, you should get a Check Engine light. As a temporary fix, you can wrap some electrical tape around the exposed wires. This will provide some insulation between the bare wire and a metal surface. The best fix is to replace the wires, which are not expensive. They usually have the numbers of the plugs on the wire. Replace them one at a time to remove any chance of confusion. It would be a good idea to buy a new rotor and a new distributor cap as well. So, it's an easy fix. One you can do yourself. The worst case is that you will get stranded if the arcing to ground saps all your coil's output. If you have the Toyota dealer take care of it, probably a $200 job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 A TRICK I LEARNED YEARS AGO TO CHECK YOUR PLUG WIRES OPEN YOUR HOOD WITH IT RUNNING IN A REALLY GOOD DARK NIGHT IF YOU SEE A BUNCH OF ARCING AND SPARKING REPLACE PLUG WIRES > I COULD SEE EVERY PLUG FIRE .THEY WILL SHORT TO METAL OR EACH OTHER I WOULD CHANGE THE DIST CAP TWO.PS DONT GET THE WIRES MIXED UP THEY HAVE TO BE IN THE RIGHT ORDER > CHECK IT ON A BLACK NIGHT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 PLENTY GOOD AFTER MARKET WIRES DO NOT BUY THE REAL CHEAP SETS THO. have not bought dealer wires in thirty years also use DIELETRIC GREASE ON PLUG ENDS AND TOWERS ON CAP THE ROUGHIDLE THE SPARK PLUGS ARE MISS FIRING CUTTING OUT > REPLACE WIRES DRIVE SAFE SAVE GAS STRAIN ON MOTER.DAMAGE TO THE DISTRIBTUR ELECTRONICPARTS IS VERY EXP> WIRES CHEAP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 For a recent history of my Toy, see this thread. The story picks up shortly after my last visit to Toyota with a repaired centerlink, which wasn't cheap -'92 Winnebago Warrior I don't know how much they hit you for the centerlink but they only cost around $45 new. If they charged you over a $100 total you got ripped off in my opinion. As to the hood insulation? Every vehicle own that had it, lost it . . to mice. Several times the mice not only chewed it all out, they reinstalled it inside my heater blower or onces - inside the intake manifold of the engine. A new set of plug wires cost less then $10. No big deal. Just make sure your spark plug gaps are set correctly at the same time. The wider the gap, the more prone your plug wires are to "leak" and short to ground. A complete rebuild kit for your power steering box is $35. A complete factory rebuilt power steering box is $175. A mechanic that knows whe he/she is doing can remove that box, install the $35 kit, have it back on in 4 hours. Or - remove and replace with a factory rebuilt box in 2 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Agree with replacing the plug wires if they havent been... but if rthe wires that are stripped are "other" wires and are just nibbled here or there but touching I would clean em good with rubbing alcohol then use liquid tape until dry. Then hit it with electrical tape wrap. Cheap chinese electrical tape starts to peel these days pretty quick; so the liquid tape offers some meat under that. I always keep liquid tape in my rig. Love that stuff even though it can get messy and reminds me of rubber cement in kindergarden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 4, 2013 Author Share Posted January 4, 2013 Thanks for all of the great information and insight, guys. I know that dealerships will generally up-sell you on simple fixes and I've been trying to do an end-run around that whenever possible. Upon calling them back at Toyota, they said that it wasn't just the wires, but the "button" had worn down and that they were also replacing the distributor cap. They also said that there weren't any OEM hoses for the power steering fluid, so they went aftermarket which will end up being cheaper, but not necessarily lesser in quality. On the positive side of having Toyota do the work, they'll do it right or they'll do it again for free, so I bit the bullet and okayed the repairs. Sounds like it was more than just the wires themselves, at which point I would've gone ahead and done the wrap. My belts are all good, battery, alternator and radiator are new. Temperature gauge will still climb high if I pass 60 mph, even on a cold day, so I'm having them look at the thermostat and gauge to be sure they are okay. Next on the list will be an alignment and four new tires (2 front and driver-side dualies.) I've not had a blowout or engine failure since taking over ownership, stay on top of the oil management and generally drive her gently. With only 105,000 miles, I know we've got a few years or more to go - so I appreciate your help in this forum. Lots of lurking, bookmarking and digesting of concepts going on here; Happy New Year and thanks again! Bing '92 Winnebago Warrior Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 6, 2013 Author Share Posted January 6, 2013 Karincorbin, I'm very new to this RV scene, so quick patches aren't something I have much knowledge about. As it turns out, it was more than just wire wear - the points of the distributor cap were rusted, the button was worn down. A patch would've taken care of the exposed wiring, but wouldn't have done much about everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tundrawolf Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 $1,700 for distributor cap, rotor, wires, and power steering hydraulic lines? I guess they don't call them stealerships for nothing! I could have the lines made at a local shop in town for under $200, and the other stuff is less than $40. Was there anything else they did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 They also replaced the thermostat, which had been stuck closed. Yeah, I know I got ripped - but no-one else I knew could do the work and I sure couldn't. I'm currently on a mission to learn as much as possible about these things so that I can do the work myself. It's going to be a long road, but it will (hopefully) be one that saves me lots of dough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 How To Keep Your Toyota Pickup Alivestep-by-step procedures for the complete idiot for 1975-1987/2 & 4WDby Larry Owens http://www.hiluxsurf.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68806 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 "Picked it up", Derek - much obliged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tundrawolf Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 They also replaced the thermostat, which had been stuck closed. Yeah, I know I got ripped - but no-one else I knew could do the work and I sure couldn't. I'm currently on a mission to learn as much as possible about these things so that I can do the work myself. It's going to be a long road, but it will (hopefully) be one that saves me lots of dough! Hey my friend, it's what I'm all about. Educating people on how to repair their stuff, when I am able to. My boss looks at me funny when I say I want to help people fix what they own. "Instead of you doing it?" He asks. "Damn right." I say If you have any questions feel free to drop me a line or post on this forum. We're happy to help out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 "Picked it up", Derek - much obliged. Unfortunately it was never updated to cover the V6 or 1-Ton axle, but it's a start. There's also the '93 Factory Service Manual on-line:- http://personal.utulsa.edu/~nathan-buchanan/93fsm/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydancer2992 Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Genuine Toyota parts are pricey but good quality. Plug wires, probably $70, distributor cap $50, thermostat $40... Autozone is like half those prices but the parts look flimsy and often break easily. After using Autozone's best plug wires and having the contacts pull out when changing plugs, I went back to Toyota wires. I've had better luck buying name brand parts from Advance or finding Toyota parts on Ebay. Probably half your bill was parts and half labor. Not necessarily a ripoff but average for what a dealer is going to charge. When I used to take my car to the dealer, I found that mechanics liked talking to the owner and they offered good advice on maintenance. They also encouraged me to do some things myself, like my brakes. Starters, alternators, etc. were not much harder. My main disappointments have been with non-Toyota mechanics. Sometimes well-meaning but not knowledgeable on how to calibrate a lathe for turning brake drums. Or calibrating their wheel alignment tools. Or the well meaning kid who overtorked the front wheel nut so tight that the disc warped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tundrawolf Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Genuine Toyota parts are pricey but good quality. Plug wires, probably $70, distributor cap $50, thermostat $40... Autozone is like half those prices but the parts look flimsy and often break easily. After using Autozone's best plug wires and having the contacts pull out when changing plugs, I went back to Toyota wires. I've had better luck buying name brand parts from Advance or finding Toyota parts on Ebay. Probably half your bill was parts and half labor. Not necessarily a ripoff but average for what a dealer is going to charge. When I used to take my car to the dealer, I found that mechanics liked talking to the owner and they offered good advice on maintenance. They also encouraged me to do some things myself, like my brakes. Starters, alternators, etc. were not much harder. My main disappointments have been with non-Toyota mechanics. Sometimes well-meaning but not knowledgeable on how to calibrate a lathe for turning brake drums. Or calibrating their wheel alignment tools. Or the well meaning kid who overtorked the front wheel nut so tight that the disc warped. Well, actually, I bought genuine Aisin parts from partsgeek (Made in japan- plugs, wires, cap and rotor) for under $40 (Maybe a *little* more, I forget) if I remember right, and i got the higher quality wires, too. If you go through Toyota, then yeah, it's gonna cost you. I just have a hard time believing the cap, rotor, wires and lines were $800, and then another $800 to install them... No offense, but if they don't know how to turn a rotor or perform a wheel alignment, you were just going to the wrong mechanic. Those aren't difficult things to do properly. On the dealer's side, though, you are almost assured 100% of the time that the job will be done right, by people who are most assuredly trained for the task. If I had money oozing out of my pockets I'd probably have a dealer work on my cars. But I don't. So I do the work myself and know for a fact it's done right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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