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Very interesting thread. Obviously we have some member's who KNOW what they are talking about based on education, experience, and backed up with links that confirm their findings/knowledge. One note on a more recent post about not having any issues. Praise God, I'm glad you didn't. But keep this in mind, newer vehicles were made to use ethanol. Older vehicles were meant for regular or plain unleaded gas. Older vehicles have component's in them that can be damaged by the ethanol/alcohol. I may have missed it as I read so much, but keep in mind ethanol blends have a shelf life! Depending on what experts you talk to the time frame varies. I believe possibly the climate plays a roll also. What does this mean? Ethanol blends are COMPRESSED into our regular unleaded fuels. Think about carbonated soft drinks. In time they go flat. In time Ethanol separates leaving you with 10% alcohol laying around and causing issues with some parts, performance, etc. I bought a Yamaha Grizzly from our local Yamaha dealer. The warranty will not cover ANY fuel related issues. A step further, they had a clear container of El0 Fuel that separated on their counter. You could shake it up or what ever and can't remix the fuel. Wasn't it Florida Marina's and Boat owners that brought class action suit against the state as the alcohol was melting through some fuel tanks and/or other components causing multiple boat/yacht fires? Not trying to scare anyone but pointing out as long as your driving your vehicles and using the fuel you should be okay but don't let your E blends sit around in older vehicles, mowers, ATV's etc. One problem was with the fuel needles in the carbs on motorcycles and ATV's. I literally saw the damage done to lawnmower carbs where certain parts melted, corroded, etc. Sorry for the long post. Here in NY they now have separate pumps for boats etc. that are ethanol free. The bad is the price is usually 1.00 or more per gallon. Hope this helps. I know it is a difficult topic on a lot of Forums but knowledge is power. Thank you for the links above!

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Very interesting thread. Obviously we have some member's who KNOW what they are talking about based on education, experience, and backed up with links that confirm their findings/knowledge.

Internet URLs rarely prove anything unless based on primary documents.

A few comments. #1 - the idea that air-cooled engines are by nature ineffecient, is ridiculous. Some of the most fuel efficient engines in the world are air-cooled.

Take hard working engines like used in farm tractors. Deutz air-cooled diesels, out of hundreds of water-cooled, are in the top-ten of the most fuel efficient ever built.

For example. Fuel eff. in tractors is measured in HHGs instead of MPGs (Horsepower-hours-per-gallon). All figures from the Nebraska Test Institute.

Deutz air-cooled D-6206, 230 cubic inches, 17.6 HHG @ 60 horsepower

Deutz air-cooled D-4506, 172 cubic inche, 17.5 HHG,@ 43 horsepower

Compared to some water-cooled with similar sized engines

Ford 5600 diesel, 233 cubic inches, 15.5 HHG @ 60 horsepower

Farmall 656 diesel, 281 cubic inches, 14.3 HHG @ 61.5 horsepower:

John Deere 2520 gas, 202 cubic inches, 10.4 HHG @ 60 horsepower

Massey Ferguson MF235 diesel, 153 cubic inches, 16.3 HHG @ 42.3 horsepower

White-Iseki 245 diesel, 169.3 cubic inches, 13 HHG @ 43.7 horsepower

International 350, 175 cubic inches, 11.1 HHG @ 43 horsepower

The claim that air-cooled engines are cooled by the fuel is also silly. The valves are partially cooled by the air-fuel mixture, NOT the entire engines.

It has been claimed in the engineering field that the hotter an engine runs, the more fuel efficient it can be. Problem is - hot engines and lubricants self-destruct at high temps.

Many makers shy away from air-cooling because it's so problematic. Hard to get uniform cooling and air-cooled engines often develop hot-spots. It's also hard to make good heating systems in cars that lack a liquid cooling system. Back when there were a few air-cooled cars available, fuel mileage was comparable to equal sized and powered water-cooled cars. Like a Chevy Corvair versus a Ford Falcon.

In ref. to ethanol in fuel? Anyone who is honest and has a grip on the science knows it offers only loss. Takes more petroleum to put ethanol in gas then to just make it all from petro to start with. Ethanol also raises hell with certain soft materials used in fuel systems.

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Frankly I have never had issues with ethanol fuels it can be an issue in boats or aircraft that sit but for me it has posed no problems my mowers chain saws etc. just get put away I don't drain them or run them out of gas the twin carb snowmobile sits all spring and summer with last year’s gas. The biggest problems came up when it was first put on the market alcohol is a solvent for shellac so all the tanks, carbs etc. now had dissolved shellac floating around in the fuel. I can buy ethanol free fuel it's only $5.59 a gallon but I think I'll just stick to the standard pump gas.

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Well I can buy non ethanol in Maine it's $5.59 a gallon pretty much any airport has it.

Aviation gas is heavily leaded and will ruin catalytic converters. Farmer's Co-ops are a good place to find non-ethanol gas, just make sure you buy it from the taxed pump.

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I've still got a Porsche tractor sitting in my field. As to cars? Maybe the last air-cooled auto unless Tatra is still making them.

Fuel efficiency of Porsche air-cooled diesel tractors compared to a few water-cooled tractors:

Porsche L108 air-cooled diesel tractor - 50 cubic inch diesel, 11.2 horsepower @ 12.7 horsepower

Porsche Super L-318a air-cooled diesel tractor, 150 cubic inches, 37 horsepower @ 12.9 HHG


International Cub gas - 60 cubic inches, 9.2 horsepower @ 10.9 HHG

Kubota L185 diesel - 45 cubic inches, 15.4 horsepower @ 13.3 HHG

Allis Chalmers D15 diesel - 175 cubic inches, 36 horsepower @ 12.7 HHG





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wow, I thought we were getting ripped off here. Reg is 1.95 and ethanol free is 2.35 a gal

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WOW that is an eye opener. After reading your post I did a google search on the subject and found the same exact answers. Here is one http://www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/IsHighOctaneGasWorthTheMoney and http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDocs/Commerce/Gasoline_Octane_Facts_102902052227_OctaneFacts.pdf

I have been wrong all this time assuming a higher octane would give me more horsepower and therefore better mileage. Thanks for setting us straight! One thing I read is that the higher the octane the more energy it requires to ignite the fuel. I am still in the WOW mode.


newer engines with electronic timing one would get better mpg with 91 vs 87.

Toyota, 87 all the way unless the engine requires it.


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Very few newer or older engines get any better MPGs with high test, versus regular. It has little to do with microprocessor controls. Generally speaking, engines with very high mechanical compression ratios require high test to prevent preignition.

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