22RE cranks but wouldn't start

[centralman]

My MH wouldn't start yesterday ... It cranks and cranks but wouldn't start, I checked that the battery's good, has spark on all 4 plugs and there's fuel (the plugs are wet with gas after I tried to start it for a while). I worried that I flooded the engine but I try again today and again it just keep cranking but wouldn't start. Any ideas before I tow it to my mechanic? Thanks for your help and suggestion.

[Maineah]

There are a lot of things that can cause your problem from fuel pressure to bad grounds. If the plugs are wet and you have spark it maybe a cold start injector it's possible it has been leaking and just flooded it. You can remove the injector (leave the fuel lines and the wiring on) it is attached to the intake manifold have a friend crank the engine for you. Wrap the injector in a rag (it will spit fuel when it is cranked)after it has cranked for a bit remove the rag and see if it is still dripping fuel if so replace it. If it is not dripping fuel put it back in and remove the wire to the injector floor it and see if it starts beyond that you'll need some one to find out why it is flooded as there are lot of possibilities.

[85mirage]

Could the ignition coil wire have popped off? It happend on my car a year ago. Parked it and when came out wont start. Couldn't figure it out cause it had just been running and everthing worked, till my passenger plugged it back in. Just a thought. GL

[centralman]

There are a lot of things that can cause your problem from fuel pressure to bad grounds. If the plugs are wet and you have spark it maybe a cold start injector it's possible it has been leaking and just flooded it. You can remove the injector (leave the fuel lines and the wiring on) it is attached to the intake manifold have a friend crank the engine for you. Wrap the injector in a rag (it will spit fuel when it is cranked)after it has cranked for a bit remove the rag and see if it is still dripping fuel if so replace it. If it is not dripping fuel put it back in and remove the wire to the injector floor it and see if it starts beyond that you'll need some one to find out why it is flooded as there are lot of possibilities.

Thanks for your suggestion, I cannot get to it today but sure will give it a try tomorrow. May I ask what kind of bad grounds could cause this? The problem you mentioned is with the cold start injector or the time switch?

My link

I am sorry to ask but I just want to clarify, thanks.

[centralman]

Could the ignition coil wire have popped off? It happend on my car a year ago. Parked it and when came out wont start. Couldn't figure it out cause it had just been running and everthing worked, till my passenger plugged it back in. Just a thought. GL

Thanks I have checked the coil wire is fine and all spark plugs have spark when I try to crank the MH, but thanks for the thought.

[Maineah]

Thanks for your suggestion, I cannot get to it today but sure will give it a try tomorrow. May I ask what kind of bad grounds could cause this? The problem you mentioned is with the cold start injector or the time switch?

My link

I am sorry to ask but I just want to clarify, thanks.

No that is what controls the injection time and when is should inject. The part is a electromechanical valve so to speak it has full fuel line pressure all the time and it only turns on when the engine requires it temp, ect. But it can leak, drip fuel into the intake manifold and that will effect all the cylinders not just one. The fuel inject system is quite complex but amazingly problem free many things can have an effect on how it runs so there is not a cut and dry answer. You don't have a check engine light on do you?

[centralman]

No that is what controls the injection time and when is should inject. The part is a electromechanical valve so to speak it has full fuel line pressure all the time and it only turns on when the engine requires it temp, ect. But it can leak, drip fuel into the intake manifold and that will effect all the cylinders not just one. The fuel inject system is quite complex but amazingly problem free many things can have an effect on how it runs so there is not a cut and dry answer. You don't have a check engine light on do you?

Thanks Maineah I will try your suggested test tomorrow. I noticed the check engine is on when I turn the key to "ON" position. It disappears after a while.

[Seattleguy]

This happened to my 22RE back in June. I had good spark, fuel pressure, etc. It turned out to be the ECU...computer had gone bad. Popped a new (used) one in and started right away. Here is a link to my thread:

http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2949

Just another possibility of what it may be (or maybe not)....

[centralman]

This happened to my 22RE back in June. I had good spark, fuel pressure, etc. It turned out to be the ECU...computer had gone bad. Popped a new (used) one in and started right away. Here is a link to my thread:

http://toyotamotorho...?showtopic=2949

Just another possibility of what it may be (or maybe not)....

Thanks I have been keeping track with your post for sure it gives me some idea I just hope it doesn't come to that but thanks for your suggestion.

My case is a little bit different as the vehicle would not even start up at all versus yours can start up for a couple of seconds and then dies.

Edited August 24, 2010 by centralman

[centralman]

There are a lot of things that can cause your problem from fuel pressure to bad grounds. If the plugs are wet and you have spark it maybe a cold start injector it's possible it has been leaking and just flooded it. You can remove the injector (leave the fuel lines and the wiring on) it is attached to the intake manifold have a friend crank the engine for you. Wrap the injector in a rag (it will spit fuel when it is cranked)after it has cranked for a bit remove the rag and see if it is still dripping fuel if so replace it. If it is not dripping fuel put it back in and remove the wire to the injector floor it and see if it starts beyond that you'll need some one to find out why it is flooded as there are lot of possibilities.

Tried your method today, here's what happened:

1. The cold start inject didn't leak, it sprayed fuel when cranked but didn't not drip fuel after I stopped cranking.

2. After putting back in the cold injector I disconnected the wire and floored the accelerator trying to start the MH. Cranks but doesn't start, heard a few (but not very loud) backfire noise from the driver side of the engine.

Any other ideas?

[centralman]

Follow up: Engine was just flooded. Mechanic took the plugs out, disabled all injectors, put a gas analyzer at the exhaust and do a crank-and stop procedure with a blow gun (compress air blowing into the cylinder from spark plug chamber), after the HC reading drops to very minimal he puts a few drops of oil in each cylinder, reactivate the injectors and it cranked right up.

[Derek up North]

Thanks for the follow up.

Pretty fancy procedure. We just used to stick a lit blow torch in each spark plug hole!

[Maineah]

Good deal my question would be why did it flood? Old carb powered engines would flood just because they could but it usually is hard to flood a FI engine. I guess I would see if they can find out why so it does not happen again. Fuel pressure would be the first thing I would check if it's high that could do it and kill your gas mileage too.

[powdrhound]

My RX-7 can flood if I start it for a short period, than leave the ignition on after I have shut it off (I think that is why...)

In any case, after the second time of having to pull the plugs, I figured out to unplug the fuel pump connector and spin the motor until it dries enough to start. It will run for a few seconds than die. Plug back the connector and re-start.

Than after having to do this in the middle of a snow storm, having to dig out the connector from under the clothes and carpeting, I installed a switch for the pump in a handy spot back there. If I am quick enough I can flip the switch before the engine dies.

[centralman]

Mechanic checked the fuel pressure was ok, really didn't know why but after that I took the MH for a 700 mile trip (I got the mechanic did the alternator conversion for me while I have the MH at his shop) no problem whatsoever and made it back safely.

[arrowmntdiesel]

GOOD MORNING MEMBERS,

MY NAME IS MARK AND I AM ATTEMPTING TO DIAGNOSE A ISSUE ON A FAMILY MEMBERS 86 SUNRADER. I AM NOT GETTING A SIGNAL AT THE INJECTORS WHILE CRANKING. I HAVE TESTED ALL THE RELAYS AND I AM GETTING FUEL THROUGH THE FILTER WHILE CRANKING , BUT NO START UNLESS I SPRAY STARTING FLUID. CHECKED THE FUSES UNDER THE KICKPANEL AND ALL ARE GOOD. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED.

I AM IN MEDFORD , OR.

THANKS,\

MARK MARTIN

[Gulfstream Greg]

Mechanic checked the fuel pressure was ok, really didn't know why but after that I took the MH for a 700 mile trip (I got the mechanic did the alternator conversion for me while I have the MH at his shop) no problem whatsoever and made it back safely.

I am going to predict that it will happen again someday. My gut feeling is pointing at that cold start injector as the culprit. Maybe it stuck open and caused the flooding. I say this because it seems that all 4 cyl's were flooded and its the only way it could flood like that.

It is possible that the ecu did have a brain fart for a brief period and allowed the cyl injectors to flood somehow, such as no spark etc.

Could also be an intermittent with the coil, ecu or other component, a really cold environment causes intermittent connections or broken coil wires to show their ugly heads. Anyhow just some thoughts to ponder.

[Maineah]

GOOD MORNING MEMBERS,

MY NAME IS MARK AND I AM ATTEMPTING TO DIAGNOSE A ISSUE ON A FAMILY MEMBERS 86 SUNRADER. I AM NOT GETTING A SIGNAL AT THE INJECTORS WHILE CRANKING. I HAVE TESTED ALL THE RELAYS AND I AM GETTING FUEL THROUGH THE FILTER WHILE CRANKING , BUT NO START UNLESS I SPRAY STARTING FLUID. CHECKED THE FUSES UNDER THE KICKPANEL AND ALL ARE GOOD. ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE MUCH APPRECIATED.

I AM IN MEDFORD , OR.

THANKS,\

MARK MARTIN

Mark you need to find some one with a fuel pressure gauge, fuel pressure is the first thing that needs to be checked when dealing with fuel injection. Fuel from the filter maybe only a few PSI the injection system will need about 35 PSI to run properly not saying it is your problem but you need to know that first. Knowing the pressure will eliminate several things that need to be checked.

[arrowmntdiesel]

Mark you need to find some one with a fuel pressure gauge, fuel pressure is the first thing that needs to be checked when dealing with fuel injection. Fuel from the filter maybe only a few PSI the injection system will need about 35 PSI to run properly not saying it is your problem but you need to know that first. Knowing the pressure will eliminate several things that need to be checked.

THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY!!!

I WILL PURCHASE A GUAGE AND GET THAT CHECKED. I SUSPECT THE GUAGE WOULD BE BEST PUT BEFORE THE FILTER TO SEE WHAT THE PUMP IS PUSHING.

MARK

[Derek up North]

There's no real need to permanently install a gauge, unless you enjoy information overload. Many of the auto parts chains have 'Tool Loan' schemes. See if you can borrow one.

[centralman]

I am going to predict that it will happen again someday. My gut feeling is pointing at that cold start injector as the culprit. Maybe it stuck open and caused the flooding. I say this because it seems that all 4 cyl's were flooded and its the only way it could flood like that.

It is possible that the ecu did have a brain fart for a brief period and allowed the cyl injectors to flood somehow, such as no spark etc.

Could also be an intermittent with the coil, ecu or other component, a really cold environment causes intermittent connections or broken coil wires to show their ugly heads. Anyhow just some thoughts to ponder.

You are probably right. Thanks for your input. If I encounter this problem someday I would keep this in mind. But for now I'll just have to live with it before changing every part.

[Maineah]

THANK YOU FOR THE REPLY!!!

I WILL PURCHASE A GUAGE AND GET THAT CHECKED. I SUSPECT THE GUAGE WOULD BE BEST PUT BEFORE THE FILTER TO SEE WHAT THE PUMP IS PUSHING.

MARK

There is a port on the fuel rail for a pressure tester it is after the filter. It is best to know what the fuel rail pressure is because you could have a clogged filter reducing the pressure. Quick FI run down, the ECU controls how long the injectors stay open for "X" load and temp it is all based on time assuming a given fuel pressure the pressure does not change (ok geeks it does change on some engines but only for temporary fuel enrichment) It's like filling a glass from the tap the longer you leave the tap on the more water you'll get in the glass the tap pressure does not change but the time it's on does. So fuel pressure is the first thing to check if it's wrong the rest of the system is not going to work right even if there is nothing wrong with it.