Engine won't start - 22re computer?

[Seattleguy]

So it seems the computer in my 1987 Nova Star has died. It was slow to turn over (3-4 cranks) and then a couple weekends ago wouldn't stay started at all. Starts for about 2 seconds and then dies.

Mechanic checked ignition, spark, fuel pressure and injector pulse. Apparently it only has a pulse at the cold start injector, but all others are dead. Injectors are getting power, but no ground when the engine is cranking. Checked all wire grounds on the intake manifold and checked computer ground (all are good). Seems all the wiring is OK.

Not knowing a lot (but learning), does this sound like typical symptoms of a dead computer? This is the 1st time I've taken it to this shop, but they seem reputable. Apparently there are only re-manufactured computers available, or pulling something used from a junkyard.

Would the computer/part be the same for all 22re years? Not sure if Toyota used something different for the 1 ton chassis? I understand some may be different that were in CA due to emissions standards.

Thanks.

Edited June 16, 2010 by Seattleguy

[Maineah]

I would not throw parts at it find some one that knows what they are doing. People like to blame the "computer" first but usually it's not the problem. Yes the ECU's are different year to year and CA. It can get expensive fast putting parts on until it runs. If you guy you took it to thinks it's the ECU hold him to it if it does not fix it.

[Seattleguy]

I know the shop is reputable and have worked on Toyotas/imports, so I will hold 'em to it. Just had the timing chain and all components changed, new exhaust and O2 sensor, etc done to it. At the campground, the tow truck driver said it was getting a spark and fuel was pumping. Still a bit hard for me to wrap my head around wiring/grounds... Here's what the mechanic said:

VEHICLE STARTS FOR 2 SECONDS & THEN DIES - WILL NOT STAY

RUNNING. CHECKED IGNITION, SPARK, FUEL PRESSURE & INJECTOR

PULSE. VEHICLE ONLY HAS PULSE @ THE COLD START INJECTOR,

ALL OTHERS ARE DEAD. REMOVED #1 FUEL INJECTOR CONNECTOR &

CHECKED FOR POWER. INJECTORS ARE GETTING POWER BUT NO

GROUND WHEN THE ENGINE IS CRANKING. CHECKED ALL WIRE

GROUNDS ON THE INTAKE MANIFOLD & CHECKED COMPUTER GROUND (

ALL ARE GOOD ) CHECKED THE RESISTANCE OF EACH FUEL

INJECTOR, SHOULD BE BETWEEN 1.5 & 3.0 ohms ( INJECTORS ARE

GOOD @ 2.8 ohms ) INSPECTED WIRING FROM INJECTORS TO

INJECTOR RESISTER & TO THE COMPUTER ( ALL WIRING LOOKS GOOD

) CHECKED FOR PULSE @ INJECTOR GROUND WIRES @ COMPUTER ( NO

PULSE ) CHECKED RESISTANCE OF THE INJECTOR SOLONOID

RESISTOR ( RESIATANCE IS GOOD @ 3.5 ohms ) WENT BACK TO THE

COMPUTER & CHECKED FOR PULSE TO GROUND FROM THE ENGINE

REVOLUTION SENSOR ( PULSE IS GOOD ) THE COMPUTER IS GETTING

INFORMATION THAT IT NEEDS TO GROUND THE INJECTOR CIRCUIT

BUT IT IS NOT. COMPUTER IS BAD ( RECOMEND NEW COMPUTER &

RE-CHECK SYSTEM )

[Derek up North]

Certainly looks like a comprehensive report. Sounds like the mechanic is a 'keeper'.

Don't know how much you're being quoted for a rebuilt, but they are available used.

http://car-part.com/

Got a Pick'n Pull nearby?

[Maineah]

OK good he did check the trigger from the ign. module that would have been my question. Go for it sounds like he did do his home work.

[bufbooth]

I had about the same problem on my 1990 Geo Tracker 4x4, it would start cold for a

few seconds then die. It turned out there were leaking components on the ECM board (known problem to the vehicle after 10 years old). The leaking components would short out the fuel injectors.

I found a place in Florida that would rebuild ECMs, they replaced about a half dozen

components that were likely to fail first over time and re-finished the board. The

price was $75 plus $10 shipping each way ($95 total cost). They had a 48 hour turn

around policy. It came with an 18 month warranty. This was about 6 years ago and

it is still working great.

I cannot recall the name of the company, but found them on the internet at the time.

Has to be other like companies providing the same type of ECM rebuilding service.

Dennis...

[WME]

Try starting with the throttle at about 1/4. Maybe the idle circuit in the TPS is bad.

[Seattleguy]

I think they have done their homework. I was quoted $600 for a remanufactured ECU (what the mechanic found). They told me they were going to keep looking and I could try to locate something as well, so I looked on car-parts and there seem to be some used ones in the +/-$100 range. Hadn't thought about having it sent out to be rebuilt, but that may be a good option too--it looks like a lot of the places warranty their work.

Does the ECU/ECM have a life expectancy? I wonder if it's worth spending the extra $$$ to have it sent out to be rebuilt as a used one could potentially start to fail who knows when...

Thanks for all the input thus far!

[Gulfstream Greg]

I think they have done their homework. I was quoted $600 for a remanufactured ECU (what the mechanic found). They told me they were going to keep looking and I could try to locate something as well, so I looked on car-parts and there seem to be some used ones in the +/-$100 range. Hadn't thought about having it sent out to be rebuilt, but that may be a good option too--it looks like a lot of the places warranty their work.

Does the ECU/ECM have a life expectancy? I wonder if it's worth spending the extra $$$ to have it sent out to be rebuilt as a used one could potentially start to fail who knows when...

Thanks for all the input thus far!

Whats there to remanufacture, there are no moving parts. The only thing I could see remanufactured to mean is that it has been verified to be operational and the outside was cleaned off. Anyone have the correct or different answer for "remanufactured"?

[Seattleguy]

Whats there to remanufacture, there are no moving parts. The only thing I could see remanufactured to mean is that it has been verified to be operational and the outside was cleaned off. Anyone have the correct or different answer for "remanufactured"?

I called one Toyota dealer and they used the term re-manufactured as well (for $760!). As I've been searching online, the correct term(s) are probably re-built/refurbished/re-programmed. Pricing for sending mine in to be re-furbished (or whatever it is) seems to be around $200-$300. I'm finding if they can't fix it, most places won't charge for diagnosing--just the shipping fee. But at the same time I wonder if they may just say it's not repairable and try to sell you another one...

[Maineah]

Very rare for an ECU to fail it should out last the motor home I would have no fear buying a used one the pickup should be the same ECU.

[motoyhomme]

Basically, the remanufacture means that the case is cleaned up, connectors usually replaced and a new "chip" is installed. The chips are produced by the jillions making them cheap to purchase and the program is burned in. The case is about the only thing that is of the original.

Allen

[motoyhomme]

Very rare for an ECU to fail it should out last the motor home I would have no fear buying a used one the pickup should be the same ECU.

If an ECU is going to fail it's usually due to a manufacturing defect, bad engineering in the placement in vehicle, etc. They usually fail in the first couple of years if they're going to fail. If it's been in a vehicle more than a few years it's usually a keeper.

I had one fail as I was driving down the road once, the car engine stopped and no indicator lights lit up. It was a known defect for that model and they usually failed within 2 years, mine failed on it's 2nd year right on cue. The replacement lasted for 19 years (Chevy) and still going when I gave the car to charity.

Allen

[Gulfstream Greg]

Very rare for an ECU to fail it should out last the motor home I would have no fear buying a used one the pickup should be the same ECU.

There might be a difference between the Federal and California smog emissions ones, that is if Toyota pushed out any Federal smog emission pickups. They may have all been California approved.

[pascorader]

So it seems the computer in my 1987 Nova Star has died. It was slow to turn over (3-4 cranks) and then a couple weekends ago wouldn't stay started at all. Starts for about 2 seconds and then dies.

Mechanic checked ignition, spark, fuel pressure and injector pulse. Apparently it only has a pulse at the cold start injector, but all others are dead. Injectors are getting power, but no ground when the engine is cranking. Checked all wire grounds on the intake manifold and checked computer ground (all are good). Seems all the wiring is OK.

Not knowing a lot (but learning), does this sound like typical symptoms of a dead computer? This is the 1st time I've taken it to this shop, but they seem reputable. Apparently there are only re-manufactured computers available, or pulling something used from a junkyard.

Would the computer/part be the same for all 22re years? Not sure if Toyota used something different for the 1 ton chassis? I understand some may be different that were in CA due to emissions standards.

Thanks.

[Seattleguy]

Well it did turn out to be the ECU. I found a used one at a salvage yard in PA and had it shipped out. Mechanic popped it in and the rig started right up.

Was off and running for a weekend trip, then overheated going over the mountain pass! So now I've gotta have that checked out. Always seems to be something...!