Anybody feel qualified to tell me what components to get for a from-scratch Sunrader electrical system?

[IdahoDoug]

All I'm looking for is someone who can tell me what converter, fuse panels, power center, etc I should buy.  There are so many systems out there now due to the vanlife craze.  Some of them are needlessly expensive due to the brand name, but I'm sure others offer durability and reliability without that added cost.  First, an overall comment that I am not a tech junky, so I would prefer simple solutions, and I would hope I can do this without each component needing its own LCD screen on a wall in such a small vehicle as the Sunrader.  I'd rather have a system that quietly does its job, vs one I have to use a touch screen (that will eventually break) to do everything.  So, expressing a preference for minimum interaction needed.

 

By way of example on the course of my complete Sunrader rebuild, there will be absolutely zero light switches that are the press and hold to your desired brightness.  I have purchased compatible switches where you just click them on and rotate the knob until they're bright enough and walk on just like houses had for 50 years.  Not a fan of the new press and hold, wups too bright, let go, double click to reverse direction and start dimming, wups too dim, etc things. 

 

Here's what I am doing with the build that will impact the electrical system.  At least one lithium house battery, plus a normal underhood lead/acid battery. Prewire for future solar (though we live up North).  Prewired for future roof A/C (we rarely need this and it may not get installed based on years of camping without A/C in our Vanagon).  I have a 3 way fridge, a gas cooktop, gas water heater, will have a 1500w AC microwave, a 1500w AC electric house heater (edit: only for shore power use, as will also have the original gas furnace which works great), may add a roof mounted 12v electric winch to pull kayaks up onto the roof, and would like to avoid a generator.  I'm happy to upgrade the alternator if needed.  I'd like to have an onboard charger that activates whenever we're on shore power. If a second lithium house battery ($800?) solves something, would consider that to get a 2nd day of boondocking, etc.  My Sunrader is completely empty right now and I will be building the interior from scratch, so no limitations on space as I'll design around the components.

 

Here's my expected use case.  We will be hooked to shore power only 10% of the time its in use.  The rest of the time we will boondock, but rarely more than 2 days and nights in one place before driving off and having a recharge ability while underway.  If anybody has either a prefabbed "system" I should look at, or knows enough to design a group of components for less money, I'd love to have a discussion about it and perhaps others in the future would benefit on the forum as they consider upgrading.  Thanks in advance!

Edited December 28, 2023 by IdahoDoug

[WME]

Some random babblings🤪 to go with your random babblings.

A 1500w microwave is going to need a 2000w+ pure sine wave inverter.

FLA car battery and a LFP house battery SHOULD have a DC2DC charger to protect the alternator. A LFP can draw full power from your alternator and can overheat it. A 100ah LFP can draw 100amps during charging

 

How much space for house batteries??

 

Some LFP rated RV converters have a bit too high output. FLA batteries love being kept at 100% charged, LFP not so much. An old style converter usually wouldn't harm an LFP battery, but it will only charge it to 80% or so

Redodo is making a 100ah mini.. 10.25Lx5.24wx9h, weighs 19lb on sale $227. Three of these fit where 2ea CG-2 6v FLA were

LiTime has a 230ah mini just released, 19lx6.7wx9.5h, weighs 45lbs, $630.

Choice depends on your willingness to fuss with LARGE wires 2/0 awg

Mid quality level 100ah LFP batteries are all around the $225ea. Self heating, waterproof, blu tooth batteries are a bit more.

 

Power panels are all basically the same, 1 20 amp breaker, 2 15 amp breaker and a dozen 12v dc fuses

 

Simplify some things,  3000w pure sine wave inverter AND a LFP rated charger in one box

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VYRMH7M/?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B09VYRMH7M&ref_=sbv_search_btf&qid=&pd_rd_w=W7jRg&content-id=amzn1.sym.4ce7861b-6eb2-4a5c-9f9e-8bdb3caa65db%3Aamzn1.sym.4ce7861b-6eb2-4a5c-9f9e-8bdb3caa65db&pf_rd_p=4ce7861b-6eb2-4a5c-9f9e-8bdb3caa65db&pf_rd_r=ZNNV6A4SS4D3XECPH6B4&pd_rd_wg=XF8Qu&pd_rd_r=37f0880d-720d-4917-a094-91cd2fcb7600&th=1

 

OOPS forgot is there solar in your future???

Edited December 28, 2023 by WME

[IdahoDoug]

So, willing to deal with heavy wire - yes.  As for space available, I'll literally design the build around the system, which is why I'm asking now.  So, it's an opportunity to have a semi state of the art system from scratch (semi, because I'm not a "leading edge" guy) that takes advantage of the current oversupply of systems out there to power a van sized RV.  Interesting news on the batteries!

[WME]

OK another comment. Top tier equipment AKA "bet your a** on it" is usually considered Victron. There is some good mid grade (tier2) stuff and a whole bunch of bottom tier 3/4 junk.

Reading...

DIYSolarforum.com

 

UTUBE people 

Reeway outdoors

HOBOTECH

 

Another P.S.  Have you thought about one of the all in box "solar generator" units

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlK7lWdyb_I&t=89s

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by WME

[Scott iv]

You will need a 3000w + inverter to run the microwave and have anything left to spare power wise. The inverter will be pricey and you don't want to risk an ultra budget model. Plan on running one dedicated circuit from the inverter to the microwave to maximize the efficiency (no power strip, splitting power). Pay attention to the BMS power output ratings on the batteries. Some will limit the amount of discharge power at any one time. Low temp battery protection BMS is a must in cold climates unless you plan on lugging the battery in and out of the camper. 

 

I run a 2000w inverter and use a 750w microwave and it pushes my system. 

[WME]

Before WE can help you to build a system for your RV, WE need to know what you want to power. Its called an energy audit. Watts used x hours ran.

FWIW I have a 1500w Panasonic inverter microwave and power it with a 2000w inverter, a friend has a TT with a 800w traditional microwave, it will NOT run using a 1500w inverter.

A very useful cheap tool to use is a Kill a Watt meter. Its great for 120v ac loads. 

[IdahoDoug]

Wow.  Completely underestimated the cost of these systems.   Rethinking things and leaning toward much like stock setup, but microwave, electric heater and a/c will only be used on shore power.  Likely to buy that new Westinghouse generator so I can lug it along if we feel like it, to power the microwave, electric heater and a/c.  That saves me thousands of dollars.  Insane how much those systems are.  I watched a van life gal install a Victron system that cost her $11,000 just in parts without batting an eye.  She put it in herself and was happy she saved money.  I guess I'm just more of a traditionalist than I thought, if that's what it costs to do a "modern" electrical system.  No thanks. We are pretty frugal with electric needs over the past 10 years camping out of our boat, and camping in our Vanagon.  We make do with a dual battery  system that handles charging devices, running a fan all night, reading lights the water system's pump, and that's it for 4 days boondocking. 

 

I'll just make room for a nice lithium battery with a dedicated charger whenever we're on shore power and that will suffice.  Thanks for your thoughts!

[WME]

Welcome to the world of solar powered everything. Lots of folks want/need all the comforts of home all the time in their RV, think Glampers. 

If you "promise" no a/c, no microwave, no electric heater, there may be an alternative... 

https://www.licitti.com/product/acbatterybox/ 

Its a DIY solar generator, it comes with EVERYTHING you need for a LFP powered setup except the battery. Charger, pure sine inverter, 120v outlet, usb ports, 12v auto jack, MPPT solar controller.

So with that and a 100ah battery, for a total of $500, you can have a "solar generator" that has 2x the total useable watt hours of the original Sunrader 12v system. Add $90 for a 100w solar panel and your all set to boondock.

I have the 1000w unit with a 100ah LFP Redodo 100ah Mini battery, its the backup power for my wifes CPAP during power outages at home.  

Interesting LFP battery situation, there is a company named LiTime that used to be AmpereTime, they are selling all the NOS AmpereTime labled batteries at a deep discount.

They also sell used inspected batteries, cheap. Mostly returns for physical size or capacity problems. Might be worth a look. I don't have one, but recently heard about them.https://www.litime.com/collections/12v-like-new-batteries

Edited December 30, 2023 by WME

[hobbit]

Hi,

 

Your posts and work looks amazing. I can't answer your question because I haven't had a need to replace the existing house components that you are replacing, but I augmented the inadequate electrical system on my 1984, 18' Toyota sunrader in the following ways:

 

1. Installed 2000 watt inverter behind driver seat and ran a dedicated romex line from inverter to over by kitchen area and rear dinette to right of sink (installed duplex receptacle) to plug things into that run exclusively off the inverter while not hooked up to shore power. Works pretty well as long as the house battery that inverter is connected to stays charged. Did this first, but wasn't enough so I moved on to the systems below.

 

2. Put  2000 watt Bluetti solar generator battery pack (runs 110V and about size of computer) in the closet and ran a power strip cord through the back top side of the frig cabinet mounting the power strip on the dinette side of the frig cabinet where I plug in: Flat screen tv, dvd player, accent lighting strip, charge phones off USB power strip, etc... I have portable solar panels that will charge the Bluetti when boondocking and when home, I plug the shore power in and charge the bluetti by plugging it into the receptacle above the frig and the shore power charges Bluetti. It will run things for a very time and charges quickly. Sounds clunky, but works very well. All wires hidden.

 

3. I also have a rack on the back of the sunrader into the 2" square itch receiver that holds a concealed Honda EU 2000 watt generator installed and cabled off in a perfect size black plastic tool box bought off Zoro. When using the microwave I installed in place of the range hood, I start up the Honda generator and plug into the generator which operates the microwave and everything else inside and also charges the Bluetti if it's plugged into the receptacle inside above the frig. Again, sounds clunky, but it's pwoerful, sips gas, concealed, works really well, reliable, quiet and efficient. 

 

I'd say I get the most benefit for my use of the motorhome out of the Bluetti and the Honda generator. Takes the burden off the house battery which is now used only to run lights and the power ventilation fan I installed in the ceiling which is critical because I have no AC. Nice thing is, the Bluetti solar generator, inverter and generator are all basically hidden from view and all supplement each other. Just running off a house battery I can't imagine when boondocking.

 

I also have a small maybe 18" x 18" solar panel that I use to charge the house battery when weather is good and I'm boondocking and using the ceiling fan a lot during the day. Actually helps and was cheap on Amazon.

 

Anyway, your project is very cool! Beautiful work! Best of luck moving forward.

 

Gary