Need mechanic in south Florida

[linda s]

Hey just hoping there might be one of you mechanical geniuses anywhere in south Florida who might be willing to do a timing chain. My friend just bought an 84 22r that's making the dreaded chain guide noise. His mechanic is telling him it's an 11 hour job and will cost over a grand. I see plenty of posts on this site that mention a much shorter time even for a novice doing it at home. It still runs so he could get it to you if anyone volunteers. Yes, he can pay you but 11 hours is nuts. Seems to me the carbureted 22r has less stuff in the way. 

Linda S

[Maineah]

57 minutes ago, linda s said:

Hey just hoping there might be one of you mechanical geniuses anywhere in south Florida who might be willing to do a timing chain. My friend just bought an 84 22r that's making the dreaded chain guide noise. His mechanic is telling him it's an 11 hour job and will cost over a grand. I see plenty of posts on this site that mention a much shorter time even for a novice doing it at home. It still runs so he could get it to you if anyone volunteers. Yes, he can pay you but 11 hours is nuts. Seems to me the carbureted 22r has less stuff in the way. 

Linda S

Wow it's fairly unusual for a 22R chain to go bad before the engine. Must have lot of miles. RE's yes it's a single roller chain the R's were double.

[linda s]

It's only got about 75.000 miles on it but if that plastic chain guide breaks it could cause big problems. Just trying to find him a reasonable price. He just bought it and it's his first motorhome. Of course, the previous owner wasn't open about problems and he's already had to get the clutch repaired just to get it home.

Linda S

[thewanderlustking]

My first thought was that sounds like what we call "stacking" or "pricing ourself out of" a job.  If none of the techs want to tackle it, or the shop is hesitant to do so, the advisor will over price the job so the potentially unwanted job/customer goes away.  This is a red flag as it usually means that they don't want to touch it.

 

I was thinking it would be only 3-4hrs, but I pulled up a couple videos of what is involved and it is actually a kinda extensive job.  Everything in front at minimum needs to come off and out. If the timing chain guide has broken, then the oil pan really needs to come off too.  On the IFS trucks (most if not all of ours I believe) this is a slight pain.  I am pretty sure I don't have a lift in my shop where I could lift mine up to actually get underneath it comfortably.   

 

While I suspect somebody who has done a couple could get the time down to half of that 11hrs, it might actually not be a stacked job estimate.  I don't think I could finish that in my driveway on a day off.  Especially without using power tools. And using tower tools increases the chance of breakage...   Remember, we are talking about a 30+ year old vehicle.  Everything that gets touched, is likely to break.  If you are DIYing this in your driveway and have the skill and time to fix that, a part breaking isn't a big deal.  In a shop that puts the bay down until the part is authorized, purchased, and arrives.  On these older vehicles, much of what would break isn't going to be sitting on a local shelf.  And we are waiting a week or so for it to arrive.  Jobs like this won't get priced on the friendly or easy side.  

 

I don't want to sound contrary to all your posts, just trying to offer a 25+yr insider view as to why some of these "jerk moves" actually occur.  It isn't (usually) the shop just trying to screw the customer out of as much money as possible, it is the shop trying to protect THEMSELVES from getting screwed out of as much money as possible...  It is experience to know what kind of jobs will cost us more money and headaches to tackle that we could make double the time and money on simpler jobs.  They are forced to pay us at minimum what the book rate is.  And my shop at least, will also pay us additional accordingly when stuff beyond our control goes wrong.

 

My next thought is that a grand really doesn't sound too bad for the job, if you are farming it out.  $1500 is closer to what I would expect it to be with parts.  I would find another shop if much more than $1500.  Personally my way of pricing side jobs is to halve the shop labor charge and have a serious think about if I would tackle it in my driveway for that.  Customer buys parts.  If I pay for the parts, customer gets charged retail for the inconvenience of me shelling that out upfront.  I probably wouldn't take this on in my driveway for $500.  Now if I had just done mine and it went swimmingly and I knew I could knock it out in a lazy afternoon, sure.  If I knew it was going to be an all day affair, probably not.     

 

I rewrote a bunch of this post as you are heading in the direction of having it done on the side.  I will give a caution of most real mechanics hungry enough to tackle this on the side, will charge accordingly.  Or be younger and much less experienced.  $1-1.5k at a shop with some sort of warranty and recourse, is reasonable insurance for sure.  

 

If still too much, then suggest spending some time watching some videos and tackling it himself.  I can't stress enough though, know your limits.  

 

Heh, my AC/roof leak is pretty near the limits of my experience and comfort level....  If it weren't for you guys here, I probably would have already paid whatever exorbitant amount a shop would charge me to do that.  Although my local RV place estimated (over the phone mind you) 1.5hrs to do it at $150 an hour.  If they CAN actually fix it for only $225, I may actually take them up on that.  I know what it is worth to me.  I would still pay double that to know it was done right.  Anyways, I am pretty confident I can tackle this job with the help here.

 

That is what this forum is about too.  Increasing our knowledge base and confidence level to make jobs like this approachable.  I would say tackle this himself, he won't be alone.  And put the money saved back into the RV.  Or realize "Hey this is beyond me and that's not really too bad of a price." and feel confident handing that over to a shop to tackle.

 

It is never a bad plan to get a couple estimates for a job like this.  Shop it around!  Just might find a hidden gem with a shop and a tech who loves and knows these, and will just charge 4-5hrs cause he knows he can still beat that time.  YMMV.  

 

My last insider tip for the day.  Calling around on the phone will frequently get higher prices than if you actually go in with the vehicle.  A quick phone estimate is going to err greatly on the side of caution and a phone shop is simpler to deal with quickly, then to actually work out in every detail.  Some service advisors will even play dirty with a price range to get you in the door.  If they undercut everyone else on the phone by saying "It could be between $700-1000" the customer hears a $700 deal.  But it isn't a true price until you have it locked down in detail and in writing.         

    

I KNOW my "phone shop estimate" for my AC gasket replacement is highly likely to go up once a technician sees the mess on my roof.  I understand how enticing that $225 is.  And I know that once I take it in I will most likely see the price go up.  And honestly if they are smart, once they see it they will "price me out" of doing the job as they will know it is going to be a headache.    

 

And in halfhearted defense of the prior owner, without knowing if there is much more to the story, or actually caring to defend him, it is still a 30+yr old vehicle.  The charging system went out on mine (or DID it yeah?! lol...), 80 amp fuse blew, and fuel pump went out all within a week or so of getting it.  Mine only has 36k on it.  I also had no reverse issues (that have mostly corrected themselves now) just from it sitting there.  I think the seller SHOULD have known and disclosed this, but it had also sat for a while and he even had me go drive it.  Another problem I have discovered is it randomly won't lock into park unless I go into drive and then QUICKLY slap it back into park.  This actually took me a while to find, but I am sure it has been like that from the first day I bought it.  My point is, if somebody always set the parking brake, the former seller would never have realized it.  Also it is SO easy to miss and overlook things on vehicles like these that don't see lots and lots of driving time.

 

I figured out how to make sure the wifey doesn't sell mine out from under me.  I disclose EVERYTHING (no matter how small) I can think of! 😇  I am very motivated to remember that whole list too... 😆      

 

Anyways time for me to stop bugging you guys and go to bed.  I got some lights to tackle, a solar panel to re-secure, and maybe even a roof repair tomorrow!  Meh, the roof repair will probably wait a bit longer.  It isn't rainy season and I want to actually go drive this!  And align it haha!  

 

[Maineah]

If it is a 22re it is a single roller chain good for about 100K and left alone it will eventually beat the guides and tensioner to death. I have seen them even beat the timing case to the point of causing an antifreeze leak into the sump because the water pump is right there. I turned wrench's for 38 years and can't tell you how many 22re chains I have done. Reading the comments on the prices for the job made my head spin. You do not have to remove the head or the oil pan to do it on the cheap, shoot I have done them in my back yard. I'm going to say there probably thousands of mechanics out there that have never even seen a 22re! If it's rattling at idle it needs a chain don't put it off. The older 22r's were double roller chains and would out last the engine.

[WME]

It's not a Toyota Motor Home, it's a Toyota pickup. Have your friend look for an independent Toy repair shop. The local 4 wheelers will know.

I've done a replacement in my driveway with the head on, but I did drop the oil pan to make it easier, but a longer job.

Can't link but go to 4x4wire.com and search

Edited December 20, 2021 by WME

[thewanderlustking]

Sadly these days even most simple timing belts are getting close to or even passing a grand....  Any time I look at the prices for even a simple serpentine belt, it depresses me how much it costs the customer, and then makes me feel better that at least I can do it for myself, or friends and family.     

 

38yrs of experience is your golden ticket!  You were wrenching when these were new, and throughout their life cycle.  The industry has been chasing away new blood for probably the last 10-15years.  And all the old guys too...  I honestly can't think of a single tech in my area with more than 25yrs who hasn't walked away and found something "gentler" to do.  Wait, one.  He is an angry GS now cause his shop won't pay him what he thinks he is worth.  Heh, walking away from that one...  

 

Yes, you are hitting it on the head with many of us have never even seen a 22RE.  And the issues you bring up can also occur on a lower mileage engine that has sat for long periods of neglect over the years.  IE most of our poor Toyotas.  Although I suspect most of the "low mileage" ones like mine are really hard to find.  Somebody who has even done 2-3 could probably knock one out in a few hours, if none of those issues you mention have cropped up.  But if we pull that apart and discover coolant in the sump and a damaged timing case then we have a disabled vehicle sitting on a lift that has to either be left there while waiting for parts, or pushed out.  Shops charge accordingly these days ESPECIALLY on older vehicles.  I hate it and think the industry is broken.  And that's why I also take the time to try and help any willing to tackle the mechanical gremlins themself, and also try to shed light on the industry.

 

Yes, if you take it to a shop, you are likely to get screwed.  But I still believe it isn't (usually) malicious (when I stop believing this I will quit and find something else...)         

 

I don't see any mention above of needing to do the head gasket.  (But myself I would think about doing it on my personal vehicle since it would probably only add an hour or two to the job).  "Doing it on the cheap" though is something that no shop these days will try to do.  Way WAY too much of a liability to the shop.  Any good wrench in your driveway or theirs, sure.

 

Scott iv has an AWESOME thread up where he recently tackled a head gasket himself.  I think it perfectly summarizes not only why it is a smart idea to tackle something like this oneself, but also why most shops these days can't afford to do so on the cheap.  Especially right now when many shops are booked up as much as 2-3 weeks out, short staffed, and can pick and choose their jobs.

 

WME hits another problem on the head.  Most shops WILL see this as an RV.  Heck I can't easily lift mine at the shop even though it isn't that heavy.  Only my biggest lift or my alignment rack will easily fit it.  If I take mine in, I can't take up the alignment rack for more than an hour without getting on my coworkers hit list.  I could get by on the big truck rack for a while, but any vehicle left in the shop disabled on a lift seriously hampers additional work flow through the shop.

 

So yeah I hold to my "realize what you are actually paying for" and if the estimate a shop is giving you is too much, seriously consider tackling this yourself.  Or like WME said, shop around for a place that still would work on these regular like a 4x4 shop or Toyota specialist.             

[Maineah]

Well if it's on the lift and has a sump full of antifreeze the next step would be to push it off and head the bone yard looking for a used engine antifreeze is a terrible lubricant and is going to be on the bottom instead of oil and the pump doesn't care of it oil or antifreeze! The end of 22re came in 95 26 years ago! If you can don't put it off it only gets worse.