1986 Toyota Savannah Travelmaster

[swimbikerun247]

Hi guys,

I have an 86 Toyota 4Runner that I've decided to put a new motor in.  I also have an 86 Toyota Savannah Travelmaster with a 22RE and only 24,000 miles.  I want to take the 22RE from the motorhome to put in my 4runner.  Would there be any value in the Travelmaster without a motor?  What would it be worth?  It does have the upgraded rear axle.  I'm in Andalusia, AL and don't expect alot but have no idea where to begin.  There is a water leak and the door to the camper is messed up.

[zero]

If I was interested in such an RV, I'd  be more apt to buy it if I got to drive it before you pull the engine (assuming it rides OK).  If I had to buy an RV with no motor, like your's, and no chance to drive it  before, I would not pay more then $500.  But that is just one person's valuation.

[fred heath]

Just my 2 cents worth; will the math work if you sell the motor home in running condition, take the profit and buy a rebuilt long block for your 4runner.

As JD said, your not going to get much for it without the original motor.

 

http://www.toyotatruckengine.com/brand-new-toyota-22r-or-22re-long-block-all-new-22r-or-22re-engine/

 

In this example, there is no core required. You could drive on your old engine until the new one arrives.

Edited July 21, 2016 by fred heath

[Totem]

I would highly advise NOT doing what ^ Fred Heath says to do. In my research I learned that rebuilt 22RE's are all junk as they are not manufactured to factory tolerances except at one facility that takes 6 months to build them at a cost of $3800.

Assuming that the goal is to get a good daily driver that gets decent mpg, I would pull the motor, install it in the 4runner and sell the RV chasis as is for $500, scrap it out or post it on craigs for free if they remove it. it could always be used as a shed also.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Totem

[fred heath]

14 minutes ago, Totem said:

I would highly advise NOT doing what ^ Fred Heath says to do. In my research I learned that rebuilt 22RE's are all junk as they are not manufactured to factory tolerances except at one facility that takes 6 months to build them at a cost of $3800.

Assuming that the goal is to get a good daily driver that gets decent mpg, I would pull the motor, install it in the 4runner and sell the RV chasis as is for $500, scrap it out or post it on craigs for free if they remove it. it could always be used as a shed also.

opinions are like (***holes), everybody has one.

I can only go by what the mfg. states for a warrantee.

You'll excuse me if I don't buy all your "research". Throw some hard, verifiable facts out there. Not just your opinion.

[Totem]

Frankly my dear, I dont care what you think; I have read the better business bureau reports on every 22re re manufacturer in the good ole USA. I did a thread on that in here and they ALL have 7 year warranties, that is until you make a claim. Then your fun begins. But by all means, doubt my research and go buy a $1600 reman 22re. let me know how that works out for you. I already know how it works out for the F- rated reman customers on the BBB, which is my source. Sorry you have to be the snowflake in July.

[Derek up North]

I too have a pretty hard time thinking that in a Nation with 350,000,000 people that there's only one place that can properly rebuild a 22R-E. 'Magical' Toyota tolerances? I think there are plenty of places now with experience with modern tolerances, even though the engine being discussed is far from 'modern'. Perhaps not before the Japanese Invasion.

And I can even say it without being 'nasty'. ?

[fred heath]

23 minutes ago, Totem said:

Frankly my dear, I dont care what you think; I have read the better business bureau reports on every 22re re manufacturer in the good ole USA. I did a thread on that in here and they ALL have 7 year warranties, that is until you make a claim. Then your fun begins. But by all means, doubt my research and go buy a $1600 reman 22re. let me know how that works out for you. I already know how it works out for the F- rated reman customers on the BBB, which is my source. Sorry you have to be the snowflake in July.

http://www.bbb.org/southern-colorado/business-reviews/auto-repair-and-service/aaa-auto-performance-in-colorado-springs-co-6303236

 

This is the BBB report on the link provided earlier. BBB gives them an A+ rating.

 

Engage brain be for opening mouth.

[Totem]

LOL 2 complaints, and not accredited?  and you tell me that? Read thrice post after.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Totem

[Totem]

On 2016-07-21 at 1:03 PM, Derek up North said:

I too have a pretty hard time thinking that in a Nation with 350,000,000 people that there's only one place that can properly rebuild a 22R-E. 'Magical' Toyota tolerances? I think there are plenty of places now with experience with modern tolerances, even though the engine being discussed is far from 'modern'. Perhaps not before the Japanese Invasion.

And I can even say it without being 'nasty'. ?

You are always welcome to post them then... but then again if you do not you are just noise. I on the other hand posted several on a thread in here already and their stories, reps and prices.  And being nasty seems to suit you; its quite alright with me coming from someone that incorrectly advises people on the BCD of rotors. Emotion does not trump data. I gave my reason for my ***hole, or shall I say opinion and was immediately insulted simply for presenting a differing view. I was not nasty about it, just advised against his advice. His sensitivity to that is his own issue.

The main thing here Derek, as always is context. to you it boils down to "can properly rebuild". Can versus DO and for a decent price are whats at task and of importance to the person posing the question.

So Fred and Derek, find us a place that will redo the motor, for cheap and fast.

[Derek up North]

I've no need or interest in researching something I've no interest in. But don't YOU find it unlikely that there's only 1 place in your great nation capable of doing the job? Remember, we're talking about a Toyota 22RE and not a vintage Bugatti! ?

[Totem]

I've already found that place and ordered a motor. Its STILL being built. It wont be finished for another 3 months and is not of the price point that most people would want to get into.

And frankly from what those that i have talked to on this - the experts the ones that build the motors have told me, a NO ONE can make a reman as good as a factory original. Since the OP clearly stated that his motor has a mere virginal 24k on his motor, he wont find a better one.

[fred heath]

17 minutes ago, Totem said:

LOL 2 complaints, and not accredited?  and you tell me that? Read thrice post after.

This company has been in business since 1982.

They are not accredited because they don't choose to pay the BBB fees.

BBB Accreditation

AAA Auto Performance is not BBB Accredited.

Businesses are under no obligation to seek BBB accreditation, and some businesses are not accredited because they have not sought BBB accreditation.

To be accredited by BBB, a business must apply for accreditation and BBB must determine that the business meets BBB accreditation standards, which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints. BBB Accredited Businesses must pay a fee for accreditation review/monitoring and for support of BBB services to the public.

Only 2 complaints in 24 years. Must be a really bad company. ? ? ? ?

 

Totem: You should really quit while you have some degree of credibility.

Suck it up, and move on.

Edited July 21, 2016 by fred heath

[zero]

Gee wiz - a lot of "bad vibes" around here lately.  My own opinion is this.  Plenty of places can properly rebuild any engine.  The question is - how does one know for sure who to choose?  It used to be that many Asian rebuilt engines came with brand new engine-blocks.  Seems someone thought it was more cost-effective to have a brand-new block with a new standard bore, then something used that was  bored-out oversize.  Now??    Can't say I've been in the market for a rebuilt Toyota engine. I'd do my own if needed.  Even then I'd be subject to the machine work of others if I needed to bore cylinders oversize, grind the crank undersize and Tuff-Ride the journals, etc.  If I had to use a rebuilder, I would verify what exactly was being done.  Especially things like rehardening the crank-journals if reground, boring the block under head-bolt stress for true round holes, etc.  I also want to know how far oversize a block was and would not accept anything over .020" over.  

[Totem]

Answered - The Business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer did not accept the response, OR BBB has not heard back from the consumer as to their satisfaction. (2 complaints)

Boy I'd love to sell you something by those standards...

 

and their cost? and their time to deliver? - no thanks.

[Totem]

2 minutes ago, jdemaris said:

Gee wiz - a lot of "bad vibes" around here lately.  My own opinion is this.  Plenty of places can properly rebuild any engine.  The question is - how does one know for sure who to choose?  It used to be that many Asian rebuilt engines came with brand new engine-blocks.  Seems someone thought it was more cost-effective to have a brand-new block with a new standard bore, then something used that was  bored-out oversize.  Now??    Can't say I've been in the market for a rebuilt Toyota engine. I'd do my own if needed.  Even then I'd be subject to the machine work of others if I needed to bore cylinders oversize, grind the crank undersize and Tuff-Ride the journals, etc.  If I had to use a rebuilder, I would verify what exactly was being done.  Especially things like rehardening the crank-journals if reground, boring the block under head-bolt stress for true round holes, etc.  I also want to know how far oversize a block was and would not accept anything over .020" over.  

So would you advise all that risk? or keeping the 24,000 mile beauty he has now?

[fred heath]

Just now, Totem said:

Answered - The Business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer did not accept the response, OR BBB has not heard back from the consumer as to their satisfaction. (2 complaints)

Boy I'd love to sell you something by those standards...

 

and their cost? and their time to deliver? - no thanks.

Again, 2 complaints in 24 YEARS.!!!!!!!!!!!

[Totem]

2 minutes ago, fred heath said:

Again, 2 complaints in 24 YEARS.!!!!!!!!!!!

and if you were one of those two people, that would be 1 too many... especially when you had a 24,000 mile beauty sitting and rotting in a rig that you only could get  $1500 for... when your unproven reman cost $2000 and has risk. yeah sage advice there Fred.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Totem

[zero]

1 minute ago, Totem said:

So would you advise all that risk? or keeping the 24,000 mile beauty he has now?

I tend not to give advice; just my opinion. If I needed an engine - I would not rob it from an otherwise good motorhome. I'd first try to find a complete, used, good-runner. I'd MUCH prefer that to the "rebuilt" route.  I just bought a 1993 Toyota with a stick-shift and a four-banger that runs great and has 130K miles on it. I paid $400 for the whole running truck.  

[Totem]

1 minute ago, jdemaris said:

I tend not to give advice; just my opinion. If I needed an engine - I would not rob it from an otherwise good motorhome. I'd first try to find a complete, used, good-runner. I'd MUCH prefer that to the "rebuilt" route.  I just bought a 1993 Toyota with a stick-shift and a four-banger that runs great and has 130K miles on it. I paid $400 for the whole running truck.  

Fair enough. I agree on that approach also. I'll hand advise out all day long personally. Its free and worth what you pay for it

Edited July 21, 2016 by Totem

[fred heath]

Totem,

You opened this discussion by suggesting my advice was bad, and not to follow it.

You painted all 22R resellers except for one, as being "no good".

I've proven this is not the case. Now your zeroing in on 2 complaints against a company that has been selling engines for over 34 years, not 24 as in my prior statement (bad math).

Go back and read your initial post on this thread.

I've proven you wrong.

And I'm no longer going to "beat a dead horse".

[zero]

One general thing that goes on now adays is the corruption (as I see it) of automotive technical English. "Rebuilt" does not carry the same meaning it did 30-40 years ago. Nor does "remanufactured" and nor does even "new."  So, without asking specific questions, it is somethings hard to find out just what it is someone is selling.  It used to be - when it came to engines - "rebuilt" meant all wear surfaces renewed or replaced, and all specs back to OEM.  Not so easy to do on old engines with worn cranks and worn cylinder-bores.  I suspect that is why Toyota and Datsun used to sell complete rebuilt engines with brand new blocks.  Now - China is doing it - like these.

[zero]

3 minutes ago, fred heath said:

And I'm no longer going to "beat a dead horse".

 

Fred - "beating a dead horse" is in our nature (at least many of us). I agree with you.  Plenty of good builders around.  That being said - even the best on the planet will have some bad ones.  All it takes is one bad employee, or one good employee with a bad day, or a jerk in a machine-shop where you sent a head or block or crank or rod to, etc.  That's where someone with a good rep and a willingness to stand behind their product is big plus.  Also why it pays to deal locally if possible.  A fully warranteed engine does not do you much good if the company is 2000 miles away and requires you to remove your engine and pay to ship it back to them to get that warranty.

[Wade]

Count me as being on the side that everyone could be right in this thread.  I have an unknown rebuilt in my rig.  I doubt it will make it anywhere near what an original 22re would. OTOH, at this point in time the oil is clear, the temp stays cool, it makes good power and must be getting at least 15mpg for a 21'rig.

I am guessing that Totem is talking about 22re performance.com  As far as I am concerned Jerry is probably the best source on the 22re anywhere.  And, he is a great guy to talk to. If I had to get a new engine I would likely go that route assuming I was certain about the chassis. The warranties are only as good as the vendor.

That said, I am hoping that my reman continues to work fine. I know I will be keeping a closer eye on the valve clearances than I would if it were original as from what I understand there are a number of inferior valve seats that are used in some of the rebuilts. Not going to take that chance. Some rebuilds go forever and some don't. I am skeptical at the prices in the ad posted that the likelyhood of a quality job is less than likely. OTOH, some very cheap Chinese stuff is actually done to exceptional quality standards. When I was in the flashlight world we called it the Chinese lottery. You just didn't know what you were going to get.

I also remember putting a set of cheap Chinese rotors on a Lincoln years ago. Ran them with a stuck caliper to the point of smoke and after fixing the caliper they ran for years straight and true. The front OEM's couldn't even take a single mud puddle after turning -- well withing specs for thickness-- without warping.  

Wade

[Totem]

I'm still laughing not just at how he thinks he has proven that site builds good engines or that their warranty is worth the paper its printed on...yet alone the OP has a 24,000 mile OEM factory original and Fred thinks its trash or only good enough to sell to make up part of the spend on rolling the dice cost - simply astonishing to me.

and yes wade, 22re performance.com is the only place I found that every single forum, BBB as well as other builders recommended, from those people that BOUGHT them and ran them, such as the Taco crawlers sites as well as other toyota forums.

[Back East Don]

So what is the worth of this 86 Savannah with and without the engine and additionally the cost of either a rebuild for the existing done right or even a pull?  I contend looking at those pictures that only thing of value is the drive train.  Either way, I don't think that motorhome in the condition it is in, would fetch much more engine in or out.  It's greatest value may be as an engine donor and if there is any residual value to scrapping it great.  If you were to pull the axle out and part that out along with anything else would take longer to be rid of but probably more money in your pocket overall.

[Totem]

http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/APR-Auto-Parts/Colorado-Springs-Colorado-80909/APR-Auto-Parts-toyotatruckenginecom-Could-not-care-less-about-what-they-do-Colorado-Spri-1103554

 

^ yup.. i thought i remembered that site.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Totem

[Derek up North]

A sad tail he tells . However, I see he made his complaint on Monday, December 3rd. Being right after Thanksgiving would certainly explain a 4 day 'no reply' from a non-retail business to me, no?  Didn't even wait to actually talk with them?

I have no idea exactly what he ordered and what was on their website in 2013, but currently it says:-

You will also need the TOYOTA UPPER HEAD GASKET SET 22R-22RE and Toyota 22re Head Bolts New .

http://www.toyotatruckengine.com/1985-1995-toyota-22re-and-22r-cylinder-head-new/

Which 'studs' he found missing would be a guess. However, they currently don't mention any studs as being included.

The timing chain holes ? No idea.

Too bad there's no follow up from either party. He's probably one of the 2 complaints in 34 years.

[Back East Don]

One of my favorite Indian restaurants is Indus Valley on 100th and Broadway in NY.  Tons of reviews to be had online on Yelp and Google but is such a mixed bag rating wise at first glance with tons of one star reviews.  When you dig deeper into it however, the issue seems to be delivery.  If you know anything about NY, you'll know this is not uncommon.  Sometimes you have to read into what some of these reviews actually says.  In this case, the reviews for the food were overwhelmingly great.  For me to say that this is my favorite Indian food among anywhere I've been in the country is saying something as I traveled extensively for work and with someone else paying the tab, I ate really well.  But hey, your mileage may, as they say, vary.

[zero]

45 minutes ago, Back East Don said:

One of my favorite Indian restaurants is Indus Valley on 100th and Broadway in NY.  

My grandfather was a French-chef at the India House in New York City ca. 1930s and up. He never learned any English and never got US citizenship but lived out the rest of his life in Bergen County, NJ. He fought in the French Army in WWI and then came to the US to work as a chef.  Just an aside. He never drove a car in his life, nor did he ever own a TV.  Took a bus and train to NYC to get to work. I'm not sure what sort of food the India House serves, but they are still in business.

[Back East Don]

Looks like traditional fare at a high end private club.  We had lots of clients down around Wall St but I mostly stayed upper west side near the Natural History Museum.  More of a neighborhood feel and you could get great food for half of what mid town or the financial district offered.  Don't know if I am being nostalgic or if I actually kind of miss all that travel.

[fred heath]

http://www.bbb.org/sacramento/business-reviews/machine-shops/putney-s-custom-automotive-machine-in-chico-ca-47024113

I love this bbb search engine. That famous company that totom thinks so highly of, gets a B- rating.

 

And this is why:

Complaint: I paid this company to rebuild the engine and carburetor from my 1985 Toyota pickup 22R engine. Once I installed the engine and performed the companys pre-oiling and first run procedures the engine had a coolant leak from the intake manifold flange plate/cold mixture assembly. I contacted the company and provided them with photos of the leak. They sent me one new aftermarket gasket.This is a copy of an e-mail I sent to this company on January 1, 2014.So my saga continues with the services you provided. I replaced the Intake manifold flange plate gasket and the heater assy cold mixture gasket with OEM gaskets. During the re-installation I saw that the cold mixture assy which has 4 bolts had 2 longer bolts and 2 shorter bolts. I determined the 2 longer bolts were the incorrect ones which were tight because they were bottomed out but not tight to the flange. I replaced the 2 longer ones with the correct length bolts. I primed the oil system and started and ran the engine again at 1600 RPM for 20 minutes. Shut down and no leaks were found. I started the engine again to set the Idle, timing and mixture. The engine would not run below 1100 RPM and at that RPM it ran very poor. So bad that I could not set the timing, Idle speed or mixture. I then spent two long days going through all the vacuum lines and testing all vacuum components including the EGR valve system. I found no faulty components, but the engine would not idle and had low vacuum that isolated allot. In a final effort to figure this out I installed a spare carburetor I had from years ago. The engine started up and idled fine so I was able to set the idle speed, timing and mixture. Today I test drove the truck for 6 miles it seem to run fine except the water temperature was a little higher than it has normally ran for the last 30 years. I know the motors new and should run a little warmer until broke in but I bought this truck new in 1985 and all 205,000 miles I put on it. What temperature thermostat did you install? So I paid you $295.00 for the Carburetor that does not work correctly. I spent about $50.00 on the OEM gaskets & hardware. Not to mention the hours of my labor trying to fix the problems which were cause by you. This is all after you spent 17 weeks rebuilding the engine and then sending it to me with the wrong (Not Mine) oil pan and pickup tube. By trade I have been an aircraft mechanic for 36 years, Im glad I do not have to fly this truck as I have no confidence in the engine workmanship.I waited for a response from the company to the above e-mail for 7 days at which point I sent them the following e-mail on January 7, 2014. Since I have received no response from you regarding my below e-mail for 7 days. I wanted to make sure that you are not going to attempt to resolve my warranty issues before I take other actions.As of January 9, 2014 I still had not received any communications from this company and am now submitting this to you the BBB. During this waiting time I further troubleshoot the coolant temperature problem and found the sending unit they replaced is defective the coolant temperature is correct but the indication is incorrect.I did check this company on the BBB web site prior to obtaining their services. They are not listed as a BBB member and had no complaints I could find.

Desired Settlement: Refund the cost of the following:Carburetor rebuild $275.00 (Carburetor is defective)Temperature sender $16.50 (sender is defective)Cost of gaskets & freight to repair coolant leaks $33.36 (Leaks were because the wrong length bolts were installed on the intake Flange Plate and cold mixture heater.)

 

I guess even that expensive, 3 month wait company, has production problems.

And did I mention, this is the complaint they failed to respond to. Resulting in their B- rating.

Edited July 22, 2016 by fred heath

[zero]

17 weeks?   If just one person doing the job, and getting paid $3 per hour, the labor charge alone would be over $2000.  If $12 per hour, the labor charge would be over $8000.  Maybe it sits around for 16 weeks, or maybe they send the block, crank, and head out to someone else with a long waiting list?

[Maineah]

I don't get it. There are hundreds of rebuild shops all over the country the 22R/RE engine is not rocket science it's just a simple engine any automotive machine shop worth their salt shop can rebuild it. We are not talking about a F1 engine truning 12 grand.

[Back East Don]

11 minutes ago, Maineah said:

any automotive machine shop worth their salt shop can rebuild it.

And that would be the qualifier right there.  A few guys around here still do this work but it is not nearly as common as in the past and has become hugely expensive.