zero Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Now and then (or even more often) I come across people dismissing older stuff as "junk." That even includes a moderator here on this forum. I guess "old" is a relative thing, as is "junk." Seems all Toyota RVs discussed on this forum are "old" by many people's standards. Not sure about the "junk" part. I had a surprise yesterday. I am doing a lot of work on my 1978 Toyota Chinook. I had a very hard time finding a new windshield for it (NEW, not used). I finally got it all prepped to install it. New rubber gasket. New windshield. I rust-proofed the windshield frame, etc. Put it on a trailer (don't want to drive with no windshield in it and risk a ticket). Took it to the biggest glass place in the area, in the city of Alpena. To my surprise - they refuse to install it. The guy who runs the place informed me that they refuse to install windshields in any car or truck that use an "antique gasket" system. He said if they goof, they might crack the windshield. J*sus Chr*st! That is the sole reason why I was willing to pay a "glass install expert." So it seems now - at least at this place - any truck or car from the 70s or back with a gasket instead of a glued-in windshield cannot be fixed. Makes me feel old when I have to deal with these "professional" jerks. I guess I'll just do it myself. I had just figured that since I had such a hard time finding a brand new windshield for a 1978 - it was worth paying someone with some glass-handling "finesse." I guess not. Ironic thing is - we used to replace windshields at a place a worked years back when they were all held by a gasket. When the "new" glued-in" windshields started showing up - we avoided them since we were afraid of cracking THEM. But in defense - we were not a glass shop and were not glass experts. Just handy with piano wire and used to the tricks needed for taking out and putting in windshields with gaskets. Here is my negative endorsement. THIS place is NOT the place to go if you have an "older" rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred heath Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 JD, You're lucky you got the windshield when you did. Pilkington glass is now "out of stock" on that windshield. I'd do it myself, or find an older glass installer who would be willing to do the work. CL might be a good place to start. 52 minutes ago, jdemaris said: Now and then (or even more often) I come across people dismissing older stuff as "junk." That even includes a moderator here on this forum. I guess "old" is a relative thing, as is "junk." Seems all Toyota RVs discussed on this forum are "old" by many people's standards. Not sure about the "junk" part. I had a surprise yesterday. I am doing a lot of work on my 1978 Toyota Chinook. I had a very hard time finding a new windshield for it (NEW, not used). I finally got it all prepped to install it. New rubber gasket. New windshield. I rust-proofed the windshield frame, etc. Put it on a trailer (don't want to drive with no windshield in it and risk a ticket). Took it to the biggest glass place in the area, in the city of Alpena. To my surprise - they refuse to install it. The guy who runs the place informed me that they refuse to install windshields in any car or truck that use an "antique gasket" system. He said if they goof, they might crack the windshield. J*sus Chr*st! That is the sole reason why I was willing to pay a "glass install expert." So it seems now - at least at this place - any truck or car from the 70s or back with a gasket instead of a glued-in windshield cannot be fixed. Makes me feel old when I have to deal with these "professional" jerks. I guess I'll just do it myself. I had just figured that since I had such a hard time finding a brand new windshield for a 1978 - it was worth paying someone with some glass-handling "finesse." I guess not. Ironic thing is - we used to replace windshields at a place a worked years back when they were all held by a gasket. When the "new" glued-in" windshields started showing up - we avoided them since we were afraid of cracking THEM. But in defense - we were not a glass shop and were not glass experts. Just handy with piano wire and used to the tricks needed for taking out and putting in windshields with gaskets. Here is my negative endorsement. THIS place is NOT the place to go if you have an "older" rig. JD, You're lucky you got your windshield when you did. Pilkington glass is now "out of stock" on that windshield. I bet you could find an older glass installer who would do the work. Maybe you could work along beside them. You might get lucky with CL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, jdemaris said: I guess "old" is a relative thing, as is "junk." Seems all Toyota RVs discussed on this forum are "old" by many people's standards. Not sure about the "junk" part. One mans trash is another mans treasure goes the old saying. When I bought mine, trust me, it was junk. One steaming pile of maybe potential. There are some who would argue it is still junk. Hey, that's ok. I place the filters of my own tastes on a lot of things. I spent a lot of time as a kid on family farms where barns contained all manor of treasures. I still have a fascination and nostalgia for it but except for a few old functional items like tools, I'm not a collector of old things. I did indicate that junk might have been a poor word choice recently. Eye of the beholder perhaps but I was also making a judgement call on the ratio of what the pricing was vs what you were really getting. You look at some of these listings and things are half falling apart or ripped apart failed attempts at restoration with a, this is collectible mentality. I was stupid when I bought mine, I'm not now. Hence the difference in attitude. You don't strike me as the type who would pay what some people are asking for these "valuable" motorhomes either. Another perspective with regard to the glass company. I've run a few businesses. These days it is harder than ever with overhead, labor and liability. Here you have a hard to find piece of glass in an odd vehicle and accepting the work means taking responsibility for it. I turn down work all the time as some things are not worth the trouble and risk. If they had agreed to do the work, would you have indemnified them for any issues? How would you feel if they offered to do the work for 3 times as much as it should cost to cover the down side? There is another side to this story. I had a priest from my mom's church ask me to look at their television set. It's an old console and when I open it up it is a ancient tube set. Even though I know a lot about tubes as I restore old amps, I'm not that old. Even still it is a simple audio problem but I have to ask myself, do I want to own this thing as that is what happens in cases like this. I donated a new tv to the church and mom and the priest were happy and I never had to worry about a antique tv being a perpetual drain on my time. Edited July 17, 2016 by Back East Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 15 minutes ago, Back East Don said: Another perspective with regard to the glass company. I've run a few businesses. These days it is harder than ever with overhead, labor and liability. Here you have a hard to find piece of glass in an odd vehicle and accepting the work means taking responsibility for it. I turn down work all the time as some things are not worth the trouble and risk. If they had agreed to do the work, would you have indemnified them for any issues? I've run a few businesses also and specialized in taking on "problem" projects few others were willing to do. In the case of the glass shop? Would I say "oh well" if they broke my windshield when trying to install? That depends on why it broke. If no one there had the needed skills and broke it - then I'd be pissed because they should not promote themselves as "glass experts." On the other hand, if for some reason - the windshield does not fit properly, or aftermarket gasket is not made correctly and caused a problem - then I would NOT hold them responsible. I see more and more many businesses that do not want to take responsibility for anything. A "mechanic" makes a wrong diagnosis, puts in $1000 in new parts that were not needed, and it's "not his fault." A title company does a paid title search and sells me a warranty-deed and then says they are NOT responsible for anything they "missed" that was not obvious in the public records. This sort of behavior is good for some businesses and not-so-good for consumers. Not the way I ever operated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, jdemaris said: Not the way I ever operated. You and I are in vehement agreement. Businesses out there are a mixed bag. They are run by people and there are good ones and bad. I run my business ethically but I charge accordingly and still I don't take on some work. I also don't work in a consumer field. I'm currently in the labor contracting business. This means I provide third party labor, business to business. Here I am expected to act on my clients behalf and seamlessly present as them. Some clients expect me to just show up and work on a project with no prior involvement and limited information. Oh, and they require I provide them a fixed bid to do so. They often get the quote and are startled at the price. I tell them that information and control are the coins of the realm when it comes to price. My work relies on too many others. It is all about managing risk these days. From design through finish construction work and furnishings. Surprising how often items listed in a scope of work are missed by the end client and GC. "Oh, we were supposed to core the concrete floor and install conduit?" Now my guys are sitting around. Lowest paid employee makes $30 an hour at the apprentice level. At that point I might as well put money in a barrel and set fire to it cause that is what we are doing on these problem child jobs, burning money. If it was just myself, sure I could operate differently under the guise that I am making enough but all I would be doing is devaluing my time and expertise. I have a responsibility to my family and employees to keep my business making as much money as possible. I take on too many marginal jobs, my guys won't be happy collecting unemployment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Yes I called that old Elixer refrigerator junk. You can't get parts. You claimed that you couldn't get Dometic parts either and I found the one you needed in no time. I have since deleted the unpleasant repartee from Runningmans thread because it was distracting from his issues. Anyone who thought I put older vehicles in the same category would have to be pretty wacky. I spend hundreds of hours on these sites maintaining them and trying to help people. I have the best glass guy anywhere. Mobile so he can price vary fairly not having to maintain a shop and loves old cars. Found him when I had the window in my Nissan done and he has since done a 50's Suburban and my daughters 62 Nova. I've had a lot of windows done over the years but I have never seen someone so meticulous and detailed in his work before. Love my glass guy Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, linda s said: Love my glass guy There is something you don't read every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kale Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 39 minutes ago, Back East Don said: Some clients expect me to just show up and work on a project with no prior involvement and limited information. Oh, and they require I provide them a fixed bid to do so. They often get the quote and are startled at the price. I tell them that information and control are the coins of the realm when it comes to price. Heh, kind of reminds me of when I was working for an IT VAR (value added reseller). The sales guys would commonly come to us technical folks demanding a quote with very limited information. We'd always say "10 million dollars" and of course the sales guy would balk at the exorbitant figure. We'd then explain that without scoping we couldn't provide anything accurate, but we figured we could handle most projects for 10 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 1 hour ago, linda s said: Yes I called that old Elixer refrigerator junk. You can't get parts. You claimed that you couldn't get Dometic parts either and I found the one you needed in no time. Linda S You have me very confused. First you posted that the part was available. Then you posted it was never available. Now you are saying you found it in "no time." I don't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Yup I posted the link and it was in that thread for 36 hours. I quoted you so you should have gotten a notification. I figured you had seen it by then. You don't miss much. You said they used that part for many different models so I searched newer 2410 models and the part number was listed. NO I don't know every part of every appliance instantly. I had to look around. Here, found the burner housing too just in case you needed it. Both listed here http://www.adventurerv.net/plateclamping-p-18675.html To be specific, when I first said the parts were available I didn't know the exact part you were looking for. When I said they weren't I was only looking at my old parts list. Searching for stuff sometimes means looking outside the box and sometimes it's successful. Can't be sure they are exactly the same as yours but for less than 20 bucks it's certainly worth a try Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 19 hours ago, Kale said: Heh, kind of reminds me of when I was working for an IT VAR (value added reseller). The sales guys would commonly come to us technical folks demanding a quote with very limited information. We'd always say "10 million dollars" and of course the sales guy would balk at the exorbitant figure. We'd then explain that without scoping we couldn't provide anything accurate, but we figured we could handle most projects for 10 million. LOL, I love this. Im stealing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 Why be so d*man nasty and obtuse Linda? At the beginning of this subject - I made a simple point. That was (and still is) that Dometic could not supply me some simple parts I needed in my 1988 refrigerator. You said I was wrong and I was not. Now you say you more-or-less was able to find it right away. I hope you did. I have no idea if that part you found at the Adventure RV site is the correct part or not. The part you posted to is for a new 8 cubic foot Servel Americana or Dometic RGE400 refrigerator. Totally different refrigerator but who knows? Might be the same part. Has a Dometic part #, unlike the one on my RM2400 refrigerator. It is a nice find IF it actually fits. I'm going to order one and find out. The retainer I need is part # 56 in this diagram for a new 8 cubic foot RGE400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 No I think your being the nasty one. I searched for your part and thought you would appreciate it. Guess not. I got the part numbers from a Scamp trailer site and they were for a 2410 dometic which is almost the same as a 2400. Yes the part I listed was called a clamp but it looks exactly the same. Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 It's a little bit disheartening but I suppose not to be unexpected. Lots of water under the bridge and all that. Thing is you two are among those who are the first to chime in on questions most of us are incapable of answering. In that you share more than you'd admit. You both are dedicated to helping people out'. Sure, you come to it from different perspectives. That is why this community as a whole benefits. Giving advice and helpful opinions is often difficult because you just don't always know much about the person asking. That is an often missed part of the equation. Getting the cheapest thing you can find that is working or finding something with better support are both valid suggestions, it just depends on circumstances of the person asking. Like me suggesting someone buy a new fridge for $1k. It is a valid opinion and one some can justify. Of course it does no good to suggest a $1k one to someone who only has $100. The dialog here makes those distinctions pretty clear. I used to think the contentious discussions flushed out some valuable information. Perhaps it does but at what cost? How does the rancor and vitriol benefit the two of you? Sure, go ahead and act like 5 year old's and point to each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 I have said nothing rude in any way. I found the part but I probably won't do it again. You just can't please some people Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 9/10 sensitive people get easily offended and need a safe space. If you feel offended or that someone is nasty you are always free to go to it. I personally don't think either one of them has been nasty to the other. They are just confusing each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back East Don Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, Totem said: 9/10 sensitive people get easily offended and need a safe space. If you feel offended or that someone is nasty you are always free to go to it. I personally don't think either one of them has been nasty to the other. They are just confusing each other. This coming from the guy who "inferred" I might be an ice hole. Was thinking of using it for my status but some might be offended. I've seen worse in other communities online but I worry there is something here that could turn caustic (hey, it's chemistry day). I've sort of noticed that too. Sometimes they are in agreement but still arguing a point with no one stepping back. The 5 year old comment was probably uncalled for but as a dad, it sounds kind of familiar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 Agreed, glad you dont get offended. I sure dont i just get even ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted July 18, 2016 Author Share Posted July 18, 2016 3 hours ago, linda s said: No I think your being the nasty one. I searched for your part and thought you would appreciate it. Guess not. I got the part numbers from a Scamp trailer site and they were for a 2410 dometic which is almost the same as a 2400. Yes the part I listed was called a clamp but it looks exactly the same. Linda Linda, you have misread many of my posts in the past and then jumped on my case (over something I never said to start with). And yes, I can give many examples. One just a few days ago when I took the photos and you stated I "never asked permission." Not once that I recall, after finding out you were in error have you ever just said "OK, sorry, I was wrong." I can live like that, but I'll call things just as I see them. As far as who wins the nasty contest? I still have some very nasty private messages you have sent me. Have I ever sent any to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted July 18, 2016 Share Posted July 18, 2016 But in this case I was only trying to help. Move past it. I really hope the parts fit Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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