zero Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Even $5.99 for 25 ft at HD is way too expensive!! Jim Yes but it is cheaper then the price you noted from Tractor Supply. I usually buy in 100' rolls for $18 or 500' rolls for $40. You buy small lengths and the price goes up. Home Depot (at least our store) often has cut-offs for sale. Odd lengths and 1/2 price. I just bought 14' of # 6 that way and also 60' of USE aluminum 2-2-2-4 from the "el cheapo" rack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Can't argue that its cheaper. I could if I lived farther from HD and added mileage and gas costs, but they are not that far away either They opened a TSC very close to me and I thought it was going to be nice, but their prices are higher than every body for many things. Not talking a couple penny's either, double on some of the tings I have looked at! Close out/discount racks are tough in FL. There are all these retired people who have nothing better to do than walk around stores and grab all the cheap stuff, makes for slim pickings and tough on us bargain hunters. I can order the inline circuit breakers, I will use the 40 amp I have for now and install the inline when they show from Hong Kong. I need 3, I will order 4 just in case. I had forgot about something, when I bought this there was a #2 battery cable flopping around underneath. It went from the house battery to about where the stairs are. It had a lug on the end. but did not attach to anything. I thought maybe a solar panel or 2nd battery but could not find any sign of a second battery? Now I wonder if there was another wire running to the truck battery? No sign of anything, will never know. A #2 wire along the passenger side to the truck battery makes the most sense for this toy. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 $5.99 for 25 ft doesn't seem a whole lot cheaper that $18 for 100 ft if you only need <25 ft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 Your right, but if you put the 75' leftover in the shed and the next time you need 25' and it is $11.99 at Canadian tire! Now you have broke even, plus saved gas money and wear and tear on the car. Then the next time you need 25', and it is $15.99 at Home sense, now you are way ahead of the game. Jim Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 The big 'IF' being how long before you'll need the other 75' and if you can find it when you do. I know I never can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I have no fears about finding uses for wire. I'm constantly wiring something somewhere. That being said - the Home Depot in my area has a rack full of wire remnants that they often sell at half-price. Good place to get wire cheap if they happen to have the size you want and you don't want a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 No discount on left over wire at the HD I deal with they just put sticker on it with the number of feet and the code for the wire check out charges by the foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I assume every Home Depot can be a little different. The one near me (40 miles away) allows dogs. Not just "helper" dog. Any dogs. It's kind of funny. It's a dog madhouse. I'm amazed there have been no dog-fights in there are no body has been bit. By the way, I love dogs. But you never know what the heck is going to happen when a bunch get together. Back to wire - I just bought some direct-burial USE cable and since it was a "remnant" they sold to me at half-price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 It looks like it is manager, dept head discretion, then there seems to district practices. I see few bargains on wire locally. Then they have the specials rack, where they seem to buy merchandise for, ie a hundred dollar item marked down $10, but if it has a big yellow tag people will buy it. I got the impact windows and doors for my house for a huge discount, got the last 3 for about 1/2 of sale price, only had to pay full retail for 1. Took me 3 years to get them all, but was not in a hurry. They used to sell the cull lumber for various prices, now it is all 70% off! If lumber is returned it usually heads for the cull rack, the ends are painted purple and it is 70% off, some very good buys there! I have not been able to find a can of the purple spray paint, I keep watching the paint close outs for it As I plod through the electrical I realized I should have a shut off switch for the AC power to the converter charger, missed that one, but not too late. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Home Depot has some bargains. Also some overpriced stuff. I guess with most stores - they pull you in for the low prices on key items - and then get you to buy other things while there that are over-priced. I am building an addition on my house right now (until the snow stops me). I waited near a year for Home Depot to drop their prices on pre-hung 36" exterior doors. Never happened. Over $240 each. I finally drove over 100 miles to Menards and got them for $145 each. I bought three and made the trip worthwhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 In the summer here HD and Lowes are good for an air conditioned walk. I was wandering around HD and noticed one of the exterior doors had a $99 price on it and thought it must be a mistake. I quickly got a cart loaded it and then found the clerk to verify the price. She said it was a returned special order, she wanted it out of her dept which was why it was so cheap. It was one of the nice fiberglass doors with the leaded, beveled glass insert. I looked, I think it was a $400 door at the time. Made me happy, but that was one hit out of walking around HD maybe 50 times. Plus I got my 10% veterans discount at the register. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted November 1, 2015 Share Posted November 1, 2015 Wire sizes as used by Winnebago, who have a fair amount of experience with RVs. http://www.winnebagoind.com/diagram/1990/099447.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 1, 2015 Author Share Posted November 1, 2015 Thanks for taking the time to post this. But I have some reservations about RV industry specs. They look at a vehicle that has a GVWR of 10,000 lbs and send it out of the factory at 9,999 lbs with an empty gas tank. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I trust big RV companies to wire in a way that is safe. Not necessarily what is best. They have bean-counters like any other company that have to make a profit. "Safe" is about wire ampacity matching the breakers or fuses. They are not likely to spend extra bucks to get a voltage drop down to a minimum is "max use" since it rarely happens. And if it does - it does not prevent a safety hazard. I've seen many RVs with factory wiring that resulted in large voltage drops in those rare situations where current was at the max. When it comes to voltage-drop - there are no set "rules." Not even in household wiring. Just "accepted good practices." Like RV wiring, electric code for house wiring is also about safety - not necessarily about things working as best as they could. Voltage drop is even more critical in RV 12-volt wiring then in a house with 120 volts. 120 volt wiring is usually wired with no more then a 5% drop. So 120 volts no lower then 114 volts. But - 12 volts with a 5% loss becomes 11.4 volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustrmrk Posted November 6, 2015 Share Posted November 6, 2015 I'll second JDs words about voltage drop. When working w/ 12vdc, it is very important to size your wiring to minimize voltage drop. It doesn't take much to starve an appliance of voltage, generate excess heat, and waste valuable battery storage. Yes, larger wire and appropriately sized over current protection are considerably more expensive than smaller, but in my experience, the increased efficiency and safety over time far outweigh the initial cost saving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 I have only did a tiny bit since my surgery and seem to have recovered from that, my injured shoulder seems be OK so can get back to the Toy. I ordered a 50A breaker for the battery and it showed up in a couple days. The 4 50A that I ordered from Hong Kong 10/29 are now in a NY sorting center according to the tracker. Which leads me to a question. I show in my drawing a 50A breaker to the left of the terminal connector. The PD9145A has 2 30Amp reverse polarity fuses and the 12V fuse panel has 2 30Amp reverse polarity fuses. Do I really need a CB between the terminal connector and battery on both ends? Progress so far. I also need to find someone with a proper crimping tool that will do my crimping for a fair amount. I have no desire to buy a crimper. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 FWIW I would put the 50 amp breaker at the converter and one at the battery. What its all about is a CB at each end of a long wire that has a voltage source at each end. That way if the wire shorts EACH power source trips off. Other wise you could end up with 15 ft of very hot 12 ga wire. Check out Harbor Freight for a cheap ratchet crimper which works good as long as you don't want to do production work with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 I have no idea what a "reverse polarity fuse" is? A rectifier that will blow when its amp rating is exceeded? You need a fuse or breaker at ever source power. I don't understand why you have two 50 amp breakers in series from the house battery to the terminal in the middle - but maybe I'm missing some aspect of your circuit. When it comes to making good crimps - a "hammer crimper" costs less then $20 and does a professional job. Just wack it with a hammer and it's done. Put some heat-shrink tubing on afterwards if you really want to do a nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 A lot of the auto parts stores have crimpers or the hammer type for large cable if not a good electrician will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 I stopped by the local marine supply today, I have bought a couple little things from them and am not a regular customer. They crimped the terminals for me for free. I have a couple more to have done and will buy the guy lunch, next time! I may have used the wrong words? The printing is rather small but says "Reverse battery protection fuses" on both the fuse panel and converter/charger. Both have 2 30 amp fuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Reverse protection fuse is correct. They are regular fuses. IF you reverse the battery there is a big short and the fuses blow protecting the converter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Yes they are reverse polarity fuses kind of redundant it's the same ideal as the ones in the converter/charger. Unlike a dc circuit that most stuff will not present a reverse polarity short lights, etc. the converter will and with no protection it will take out the converter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 My comment or question about a "reverse polarity" fuse is this. If it exists what is it? Such a title indicates it is a voltage-direction sensing fuse that permits X amount of current in one direction and a different X value of current in the other. I don't know of any stand-alone fuse that can do that. A circuit that routes only backwards flow to a fuse that then blows, yes. In a way some rectifiers work that way but I don't know of any fuse that does. I also have not kept up with the latest in electronics so if there is such a thing - I'd like to know what it is. I have many electric devices with reverse-polarity fused circuits but there nothing special about the fuses themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Reverse polarity is not the fuse type, it is the fuse function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 This is clear as mud, but if a circuit doohickey is routing only reverse current through the fuses, then they are only in use when a battery is installed backwards. To the untrained it looks like the circuit is limited to 30 amps. I will check them with a continuity tester when done. Adding the CB is no big deal, I have 4 on order, but seemed like overkill. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No worries mate, trust me they work fine. Install your batteries correctly and press on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Making a bit of progress on the electrical. I have not started the Toy in a bit so decided to start it today and let it idle, the cab AC seems to be still working well. Out of curiosity after I started it I checked the voltage at the battery and it was 13.6 volts, slightly lower at the isolator on the fire wall. Then I checked inside, there is no battery hooked up just the #8 wire from the isolator to the fuse panel area. It read 12.5 volts! It is still another 10 feet to where the house battery will be. Curious to see what the voltage will be when it is all hooked up? Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This is clear as mud, but if a circuit doohickey is routing only reverse current through the fuses, then they are only in use when a battery is installed backwards. To the untrained it looks like the circuit is limited to 30 amps. I will check them with a continuity tester when done. Adding the CB is no big deal, I have 4 on order, but seemed like overkill. Jim You have to read the manual to find out what exactly those fuses protect, and don't protect. My $200 mulitmeter has reverse-polarity protection with a pair of 5 amp fuses yet it can carry 30 amps in the correct direction. So I know, at least in this case, they cannot be working to protect the 30 amps of normal current when it is flowing in the desired direction. Your's may or may not be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I read the manual for your PD9145A. Looks like it is near exactly the same unit as my Iota DLS-45. Your PD has built-in overload protection for the output and it has nothing to do with the fuses (for reverse polarity protection). It has a built-in current/voltage regulator and if there is a short - or a demand that exceeds 45 amps - it just shuts down and comes back on when that over-demand ceases. What inside actually does this - I have no idea. No info from PD and no internal parts available. I.e. they consider it non-repairable. So - no circuit breaker or fuse needed for the output. That being said - I'd likely put a 40 or 45 amp breaker in there just in hopes it would prevent internal damage in the converter. But again - the internal circuitry makes it self-limiting and in theory - no extra protection needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 Thanks for taking the time to read that JD, greatly appreciated. I have 4 of the 50A circuit breakers on order, they made it from Hong Kong to NYC in good time and now seem to be sitting in a sorting house there since the 7th of Nov. I am on the fence on this, can see no issue with adding one 50A to the converter end, but am hesitant to add one more thing that can fail. Seems I should add it. Any of you guys get down to SW FL and dinner is on me! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Your voltage to the battery is getting iffy. Check all the posts at the isolator and at the connectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 I checked 2 DC voltage drop tables, not knowing the amperage. It seems that the voltage should be over 13 at end of wire. I am with JD on this one, the most effective solution is to run a larger cable a shorter distance. I can reduce the wire run from about 30' to about 17'. The voltage drop tables show a #4 wire as optimal. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 The reverse polarity protection is done with diodes if it is reversed it presents a short to the fuses. It's a pretty common trick with solid state stuff. I would hook up your battery and recheck your voltage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 The 50 amp inline fuses showed up today from Hong Kong. I figured I needed 3, for the price and length of delivery I ordered 4 Justin Case. One showed up with the handle detached, it does not seem to disengage like the others. They do not look like cheap junk, are hefty and appear to be well made. Time will tell. I added a couple quarters for size comparison, sorry I did not have any metric quarters. Left click to enlarge photo. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted November 16, 2015 Share Posted November 16, 2015 "I did not have any metric quarters." 24.26 mm (US) 23.88 mm (Cdn) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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