Looking To Buy

[Totem]

I'm talking about AMERICA as well as Canada. Municipal by-laws also affect what happen on private property. You might want to do some research on the Walmart Camping Yahoo Group for more details. I've been a member for years.

Thats great. I own a store, I like a person that nicely asks if they can stay. I grant permission. The cops come and tell them to leave, they produce paperwork stating they have "Official" company permission for business purposes.... In AMERICA, that would be the end of it; you are innocent until proven poor here, remember.

[Totem]

Say what you want ...

That's why people go to the trouble of making and maintaining these lists.

I think those lists are for Vampiring, as in "lets park here because we can but not ask."

[Derek up North]

IF you took the time to check, both sites say to ALWAYS ask.

2. Obtain permission from a qualified individual.

http://www.walmartatlas.com/overnight-parking-etiquette/

2. Obtain permission from a qualified individual.

https://xa.yimg.com/df/walmartrving/Overnight+Parking+Code+of+Conduct.pdf?token=PeMq1Rh2SFZucSJ-PoGphqcjhYUmbOccnFuq0P3d16nrpUIY7BaxMg2UlfpzYlUpQ-j2PhKgpz3OwabayKpdvAcy9t8mOpB-PexAqNsQ505nOonsAgA0zPUfcGnVpXffQoIo-AP9yiRhfxwZ&type=download

[Totem]

I guess I don't understand your argument; are you saying that permission must be obtained from the Federal government? because to me if you get permission from the owner or a fiduciary officer of the owner that's good enough to me, and also most notably law enforcement also.

[Totem]

also...

http://la.curbed.com/archives/2014/06/its_no_longer_illegal_to_live_in_your_car_in_los_angeles_1.php

[Derek up North]

I guess I don't understand ...

Yep.

[zero]

you are innocent until proven poor here, remember.

I wish that was true. If we were truly "innocent" unless proven guilty, we could not be arrested when "suspected" of something, would not have to post bail IF bail is even offered. would not get our names in newspapers when a "suspect" and in Michigan - would not have personal property confiscated when only suspected of drug crimes and not found guilty. Along the same line-of-reasoning, if we actually "owned" property, we would not be subject to all the zoning and building regs, and not LOSE the property if we refuse to pay taxes we have no control over.

[Totem]

Derek made a comment about standing before a Judge after being arrested (presumably) for camping WITH permission from Walmart just because some campers list he is a "member for years" of said was verboten in a document list. Thats what I dont understand; even if that ridiculous scenario played out, you wouldn't be guilty of anything. Linda implied no one can live in their vehicles/campers in LA/Kali any more. Now I don't live there mind you, but if I did and had permission (and to me permission would be some how provable even if i had phone recording video of getting it verbally, that would be good enough for me.

As to your comments JDE, you must remember that presumed innocent means just that; you can be detained whenever they need to detain you; but they only have so much time to charge you. If you are poor and uneducated you wont know that and you will have a public defender that wont put any effort because they are just paying their dues to get a better partner position somewhere. The reality is that parking an RV as a guest is only as hard as you make it... If you have good soft skills and get permission; the onus is on the person granting you the ability to stay there to make sure you aren't breaking any "by laws".

If I ever RV in Kali (which i consider a blue list state and therefore wont visit unless they change certain laws) I will challenge this assumption of Dereks.

Walmart is free to pick and choose who they allow to stay; its as simple as that though they need to observe local zoning laws.

I have yet to see Derek or linda post anything other than web lists; where is the zoning law preventing Walmart from allowing you to camp with their permission? just give me one please; one law. then I will yield.

[Derek up North]

I was thinking more in terms of being before a judge to contest a ticket for Walmart camping. Actually being arrested never entered my mind which is probably why I didn't mention it.

[zero]

JDE, you must remember that presumed innocent means just that; you can be detained whenever they need to detain you;

Walmart is free to pick and choose who they allow to stay; its as simple as that though they need to observe local zoning laws.

There is nothing in the US justice system that officially states we are "innocent" until found guilty. It's more a myth then reality. Now in the UK there are rules about a person being "not guilty" until prove otherwise - and "not guilty" does not mean "innocent." In Iran and Russia too. Not in the USA. O.J. Simpson is a classic example of someone who was found "not guilty" but is certainly assumed to be guilty of butchering his wife and her playmate.

As far as Walmart and any freedoms they have? Any of their perceived "freedoms" are based on whatever local, county, state, and Federal regs that might apply to the area. I suspect finding out which ones apply and where is not an easy task done in 10 minutes. Some areas in the USA do not allow ANY camping overnight anywhere unless in designated camping areas. In fact, some places do not even allow an RV to parked outside "in sight" of the public overnight.

The big problem with any so-called "freedom" is . . freedom for one person takes away freedom from another. So much is based on compromise.

[Totem]

"Any of their perceived "freedoms" are based on whatever local, county, state, and Federal regs that might apply to the area. I suspect finding out which ones apply and where is not an easy task done in 10 minutes"

- exactly, nor will it come from a list composed of campers in Canada and if it did would be inaccurate and out of date most assuredly as laws constantly change. The notion was (to come back to the point) that it was illegal to camp at a Walmart and now some how an offense that would result in a fine making one appear before a judge. I call shenanigans; if you have permission you wont get fined. If its somehow illegal you wont get permission, there now I believe we all agree yes?

[fred heath]

Businesses, any business which has off street parking which it owns or leases, has sole discretion who can park and for how long. City parking regulations have no enforcement on private land.
As a practical matter, I understand why places like Walmart ban overnite parking in some area's. If they didn't do this their parking lot could be clogged with RV's. Again, using Walmart as an example, they would have to complain to the police or private tow company before any action is taken.
The corporate mindset dictates you don't alienate any customers. Common sense says you would get a knock on the door before that happens.
When I travel I sometimes park overnite at a Walmart if its along my route.
I also have a Planet Fitness "black card" membership which allows me to use any planet fitness in the country. Many are open 24 hours. The cost is $20.00 per month. I can shower, shave and workout if I desire. A good deal for the money.
American Legion members can park overnite at any post. Just get permission.
There are always a few people who abuse the system. When this happens, you see the "no parking" signs go up.

[Derek up North]

"Any of their perceived "freedoms" are based on whatever local, county, state, and Federal regs that might apply to the area. I suspect finding out which ones apply and where is not an easy task done in 10 minutes"

- exactly, nor will it come from a list composed of campers in Canada and if it did would be inaccurate and out of date most assuredly as laws constantly change. The notion was (to come back to the point) that it was illegal to camp at a Walmart and now some how an offense that would result in a fine making one appear before a judge. I call shenanigans; if you have permission you wont get fined. If its somehow illegal you wont get permission, there now I believe we all agree yes?

Well, I don't understand how you keep dragging 'Canada' into this (and other) threads. The two sources of lists of Walmarts with NOP are US based and the Yahoo Group constantly updates their list, as and when members come across Walmarts that change their policy for whatever reason.

In my World, if you commit an offense you'll at least get a fine (unless you can talk your way out of it). And if you want to contest it you end up arguing your case in front of a judge. It sounds like you live somewhere with a different 'system'.

[Derek up North]

Businesses, any business which has off street parking which it owns or leases, has sole discretion who can park and for how long. City parking regulations have no enforcement on private land.

I'm no lawyer and can't be bothered to try to track down an official link to the 'law', but here's one example:-

"Plattsburgh, NY has an ordinance banning overnight parking of RVs in public lots. The ordinance covers the local Wal-Mart and signs are posted in the Wal-Mart lot."

http://marc.info/?l=publib&m=121306529919515

I've no idea how strictly the ordinance is enforced.

[Derek up North]

I guess I should have guessed!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=my.walmart.overnightparking.abcdefinder&hl=en

[fred heath]

The key phrase is "public lot".

If Walmart shares a common lot with other business in NY then maybe the law would apply.

Again, it would require a complaint before any action is taken.

It only takes a few people "full timing" on a regular basis to upset other business resulting in the phone call.

Police are too busy with assigned patrol duties to be bothered checking parking lots for overnite violators.

My comment was directed at PRIVATELY owned land.

[Derek up North]

I have yet to see Derek or linda post anything other than web lists; where is the zoning law preventing Walmart from allowing you to camp with their permission? just give me one please; one law. then I will yield.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/walmartrving/conversations/messages/19728

I have no idea if Walmart owns or leases the property in Gardner, KS.

[zero]

Businesses, any business which has off street parking which it owns or leases, has sole discretion who can park and for how long. City parking regulations have no enforcement on private land.

As a practical matter, I understand why places like Walmart ban overnite parking in some area's. If they didn't do this their parking lot could be clogged with RV's. Again, using Walmart as an example, they would have to complain to the police or private tow company before any action is taken.

The corporate mindset dictates you don't alienate any customers. Common sense says you would get a knock on the door before that happens.

When I travel I sometimes park overnite at a Walmart if its along my route.

I also have a Planet Fitness "black card" membership which allows me to use any planet fitness in the country. Many are open 24 hours. The cost is $20.00 per month. I can shower, shave and workout if I desire. A good deal for the money.

American Legion members can park overnite at any post. Just get permission.

There are always a few people who abuse the system. When this happens, you see the "no parking" signs go up.

[zero]

Businesses, any business which has off street parking which it owns or leases, has sole discretion who can park and for how long. City parking regulations have no enforcement on private land.

That absolutely is NOT universally true throughout the United States. Might be the case in some areas; certainly not all. City, County, State, conservation regs and other regs often take precedence over the limited "rights" of private-property owners.

But to some degree - this depends exactly what someone is calling "parking regulations." "Parking" and "sleeping in an RV" are not the same thing.

[zero]

By the way, I own over a mile of two public highways in two different towns. One in New York and one in Michigan. I own the land but the Towns (or County) have a right-of-way for a public highway as is often the case in rural areas. I can get fined for blocking those roads or parking in certain ways even though I own every square inch of those lands.

[Gary_M]

Towns around my area such as Bellevue don't allow residential parking of motorhomes, even for the owner to park their own in the driveway. Cannot be visible from the street view as has to be out of sight like parked on the side of house and fenced out of view.

I suspect what others have said that the nomads spoil it for many. This made news last week:

Camper fire revals RV nomads living on city streets

[shibs]

Unfortunately cities can pass laws to prohibit campers on their streets. In my little yummy/snotty town, one cannot park a camper more than 3 days on the street or in front a house. It has to be behind or equal to the house. You cannot live in it.

I received a warning cuz my neighbor (they won't tell me who ;-)) complained when I dropped my truck camper in my driveway to wash my truck and get the oil changed.

[Derek up North]

I received a warning cuz my neighbor (they won't tell me who ;-)) complained ...

Around here they keep things anonymous too, so you can't face the accuser (or know who to retaliate against ).

[zero]

There are so many laws and regs that apply to so-called "private property" it can make your head spin. Luckily, cops usually are to privy to all of them and neither are government officials.

In my almost "former" residence in a the entire state of New York that is a state-law (statute) that was passed a few years ago that makes it illegal for anyone to have more then one unregistered motor-vehicle on their private property. Note that at present I have over 40 at my place in NY. I suspect when the helicopters get tires of looking for marijuana fields, they'll be looking for excess motor-vehicles instead. That blanket law is moronic. Exemptions are - people with an official junkyard license, repair shops, registered farms that can prove parts value in the excess cars or trucks, or motor-vehicles with snow-plows attached.

I've got 80 acres and 7 separate deeds and tax bills even though the land it all contiguous. So do I get to have one unregistered MV per tax parcel or just one for all the 80 acres? Rhetorical question; I don't care anymore. I moved to Michigan. Just to make things clear, I have no neighbors in sight from any part of my 80 acres in NY. No one can see any of my "excess" vehicles unless tresspassing or flying over in a helicopter (which is also trespassing according to Old English Law).

Then there is the "local laws" adopted in 1976 in the town of Worcester, Otsego County, NY where my place is. #1 - NO RVs or trailers anywhere on any land unless registered, insured, and "ready to travel." If you park any sort of RV on your own land and do not have it legally registered, you will get a summons if caught. ( I have eight back in NY with no plates). Furthermore, even if you DO have license plates on your RV - if it looks like it's being lived in for more then two weeks at a time - you are in violation again. If you want to use an RV for more then 2 weeks, you must get a building permit for it and get it inspected and it must pass code, board-of-health regs, etc. You will also be taxed on it as a "residence."

Then there are the Otsego County Board of Health regs that apply to anyone trying to sleep in an RV anywhere in the county. Private or public.

Then there is the "Quick Take" form of Eminent Domain used in the state of NY. If means that if a local government wants your private land - they just come and take with NO judicial review. As a property owner - you DO get to take it to court later at your own expense. If you prevail and prove the "take" was illegal or unfair - you NEVER get your land back. Just financial compensation and NOT your own asking price. You have to take whatever a judge says you deserve.

My town (Town of Worcester) had tried to take my land twice in the past 20 years. Their effort failed both times due to a lot of effort on my parts but I won't go into the details. All I can say is - thank heavens I'm selling it on May 1st.

Two years ago a guy a few towns away from me had an early 1800s building for sale. A local historcal society wanted to buy it but could not afford the $80K asking price. So what did the do? They asked the Town to take it by Eminent Domain and give it to them which is what happened. Last I checked it was still tied up in court and so far the owner has received nothing.

Back to my place in NY. A few years ago, when I was 800 miles away - the Town decided to widen the town road that I own. They widened it from 14 feet to 30 feet and removed over 50 century-old hard maple trees. To add insult-to-injury - the town highway workers took all the wood to their own home for firewood. I came back and told the town I wold sue them if they did not put the road back as it was and return ALL my wood. The DID bring some wood back. As to the road-thing? The elected Town Highway Supervisor and the elected Town Supervisor (mayor) were both in shock to find out I actually owned the road. They were totally clueless ! The Town Attorney then recommended they seize my land by eminent domain and that's when things got real ugly - from my end. The town found out that 99% of all the town roads were privately owned and the highways were only established by "easement by prescription."

Then the town came after me for my chickens wandering down the road and sometimes going on to neighbor's properties. That was even more amusing. The town officials were quite surprised to find out that for the entire Otsego County of NY - all "farm fowl" have free-range rights anywhere.

My overall point is - property rights are often not what people think they are.

[jjrbus]

I noticed the local Wal Mart in N Ft Myers was on the no camping list. I have noticed over nighters in the lot on occasion.

Some of the restrictions are from RV park owners getting local ordinances passed to force people to use their parks.

I remember one published story where the RV park owner was quoted as saying. "These people are driving $100,000+ rigs, they can easily afford $40 night"!

Several years ago in FL after a bad day I was heading to a $30 night RV Park, I saw a sign for a $25 motel and pulled in. Water was out and all I needed was a shower.

JIm SW FL

[jjrbus]

There are so many laws and regs that apply to so-called "private property" it can make your head spin. Luckily, cops usually are to privy to all of them and neither are government officials.

In my almost "former" residence in a the entire state of New York that is a state-law (statute) that was passed a few years ago that makes it illegal for anyone to have more then one unregistered motor-vehicle on their private property. Note that at present I have over 40 at my place in NY. I suspect when the helicopters get tires of looking for marijuana fields, they'll be looking for excess motor-vehicles instead. That blanket law is moronic. Exemptions are - people with an official junkyard license, repair shops, registered farms that can prove parts value in the excess cars or trucks, or motor-vehicles with snow-plows attached.

I've got 80 acres and 7 separate deeds and tax bills even though the land it all contiguous. So do I get to have one unregistered MV per tax parcel or just one for all the 80 acres? Rhetorical question; I don't care anymore. I moved to Michigan. Just to make things clear, I have no neighbors in sight from any part of my 80 acres in NY. No one can see any of my "excess" vehicles unless tresspassing or flying over in a helicopter (which is also trespassing according to Old English Law).

Then there is the "local laws" adopted in 1976 in the town of Worcester, Otsego County, NY where my place is. #1 - NO RVs or trailers anywhere on any land unless registered, insured, and "ready to travel." If you park any sort of RV on your own land and do not have it legally registered, you will get a summons if caught. ( I have eight back in NY with no plates). Furthermore, even if you DO have license plates on your RV - if it looks like it's being lived in for more then two weeks at a time - you are in violation again. If you want to use an RV for more then 2 weeks, you must get a building permit for it and get it inspected and it must pass code, board-of-health regs, etc. You will also be taxed on it as a "residence."

Then there are the Otsego County Board of Health regs that apply to anyone trying to sleep in an RV anywhere in the county. Private or public.

Then there is the "Quick Take" form of Eminent Domain used in the state of NY. If means that if a local government wants your private land - they just come and take with NO judicial review. As a property owner - you DO get to take it to court later at your own expense. If you prevail and prove the "take" was illegal or unfair - you NEVER get your land back. Just financial compensation and NOT your own asking price. You have to take whatever a judge says you deserve.

My town (Town of Worcester) had tried to take my land twice in the past 20 years. Their effort failed both times due to a lot of effort on my parts but I won't go into the details. All I can say is - thank heavens I'm selling it on May 1st.

Two years ago a guy a few towns away from me had an early 1800s building for sale. A local historcal society wanted to buy it but could not afford the $80K asking price. So what did the do? They asked the Town to take it by Eminent Domain and give it to them which is what happened. Last I checked it was still tied up in court and so far the owner has received nothing.

Back to my place in NY. A few years ago, when I was 800 miles away - the Town decided to widen the town road that I own. They widened it from 14 feet to 30 feet and removed over 50 century-old hard maple trees. To add insult-to-injury - the town highway workers took all the wood to their own home for firewood. I came back and told the town I wold sue them if they did not put the road back as it was and return ALL my wood. The DID bring some wood back. As to the road-thing? The elected Town Highway Supervisor and the elected Town Supervisor (mayor) were both in shock to find out I actually owned the road. They were totally clueless ! The Town Attorney then recommended they seize my land by eminent domain and that's when things got real ugly - from my end. The town found out that 99% of all the town roads were privately owned and the highways were only established by "easement by prescription."

Then the town came after me for my chickens wandering down the road and sometimes going on to neighbor's properties. That was even more amusing. The town officials were quite surprised to find out that for the entire Otsego County of NY - all "farm fowl" have free-range rights anywhere.

My overall point is - property rights are often not what people think they are.

I had a beautiful place in West Seneca NY and the property tax drove me out. I can retire in some countries for what they wanted a year.

JIm SW FL

[Totem]

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/walmartrving/conversations/messages/19728

I have no idea if Walmart owns or leases the property in Gardner, KS.

Nope, i get a link to a woman standing on a "win $7000 cash" and nothing else. Cite the law.

[Totem]

The key phrase is "public lot".

If Walmart shares a common lot with other business in NY then maybe the law would apply.

Again, it would require a complaint before any action is taken.

It only takes a few people "full timing" on a regular basis to upset other business resulting in the phone call.

Police are too busy with assigned patrol duties to be bothered checking parking lots for overnite violators.

My comment was directed at PRIVATELY owned land.

Finally someone with reading comprehension skills!

[Totem]

and back to my original comment; I correctly predicted that only LA and NYC would even have anything close to an example that someone could cite; even though Derek only posted a link to a woman winning $7000 I am assuming when he clicks on the link he gets some example of a NYC ban. This is typical of NYC and not the norm.

The Canadian issue I have is that Canadians understanding of Property and Americans is extremely different. Also for the record we were talking about Walmart privately owned parking lots not the street in front of the lots for those that are grasping at straws talking about highways and the like. Fred Heath gets the Gold star today, he understands the comment.

which was that if you get permission from the owner, you can park in their property (parking lot).

[Derek up North]

I'm not trying to educate anyone about US property rights. Or compare to Canadian. I'm not a lawyer in either country. I'm merely to point out that there are MANY Walmarts in the US with NOP for WHATEVER reason (that I have no real interest in researching individually). And MANY that aren't in NYC or LA.

I have no idea why this link doesn't work for you. It takes me directly to post #19728 on the WalmartRVing Yahoo Group with another example of a city (Gardner, KS) with an ordinance banning overnight parking at Walmart, though it sounds like it was not currently enforced but on the books none the less.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/walmartrving/conversations/messages/19728

[zero]

The Canadian issue I have is that Canadians understanding of Property and Americans is extremely different. Also for the record we were talking about Walmart privately owned parking lots not the street in front of the lots for those that are grasping at straws talking about highways and the like. Fred Heath gets the Gold star today, he understands the comment.

which was that if you get permission from the owner, you can park in their property (parking lot).

Gold Star from you maybe. Not what I'm going to call a universal award. Nobody - as a private property owner - has unlimited rights to give permissions on land they own if there are government laws and regs that say otherwise. If Walmart owns a lot and the local zoning regs do not allow overnight camping in RVs - then doing so is illegal. Whether that reg gets enforced is another issue. Local sheriff or constable would where I come from. State Trooper - hell no. A guy in my NY town of Worcester got cited with a summons for camping on his own land and the summons was written by the local conservation officer.

There are many regs that preempt private owner rights and NOT just on public right-of-ways. Even here in Michigan. Like in Presque Isle County. You can own 100 acres in the middle of nowhere yet are NOT allowed to built a barn unless you build a house first. Why? Head of the county code office told me that did it to keep people from buying rural land, then building pole-barns and sleeping in them.

By the way Totem, Canadians ARE Americans. USA citizens - no.

[Derek up North]

... I correctly predicted that only LA and NYC would even have anything close to ...

I don't find anything in this thread where you predict anything specific to LA and NYC. Could you reference your post because I sure can't find it.

Can you cite the law that you apparently have where NYC has a ban?

[Derek up North]

From Walmart's Website:-

Can I park my RV at a Walmart store?

While we do not offer electrical service or accommodations typically necessary for RV customers, Walmart values RV travelers and considers them among our best customers. Consequently, we do permit RV parking on our store parking lots as we are able. Permission to park is extended by individual store managers, based on availability of parking space and local laws. Please contact management in each store to ensure accommodations before parking your RV.

http://corporate.walmart.com/frequently-asked-questions

[zero]

From Walmart's Website:-

Can I park my RV at a Walmart store?

While we do not offer electrical service or accommodations typically necessary for RV customers, Walmart values RV travelers and considers them among our best customers. Consequently, we do permit RV parking on our store parking lots as we are able. Permission to park is extended by individual store managers, based on availability of parking space and local laws. Please contact management in each store to ensure accommodations before parking your RV.

http://corporate.walmart.com/frequently-asked-questions

Yes, it seems Fred Heath and Totem don't believe in local laws. Totem certainly hands out gold stars too easy. Don't get me wrong, I don't like many of inane local regs. That's why I live in a rural area. I can cite hundreds, probably thousands of relevant parts of local laws that make sleeping in an RV illegal unless in a "permitted" area.

Many places in southern Florida and California are militant about it.

Here' one piece of local law from Santa Cruz, CA. Note the required "written permission" when camping in a place like Walmart. Other areas in California have, by local law, banned ALL camping in RVs in any store parking lot.

6.36.010 CAMPING PROHIBITED.

No person shall camp anywhere in the city of Santa Cruz, whether on public or private property, except as hereinafter expressly permitted. “To camp” means to do any of the following:

(a) Sleeping – 11 p.m. to 8:30 a.m. To sleep at any time between the hours of 11 p.m. to 8:30 a.m. in any of the following places:

(1) Outdoors with or without bedding, tent, hammock or other similar protection or equipment;

(2) In, on or under any structure not intended for human occupancy, whether with or without bedding, tent, hammock or other similar protection or equipment;

(3) In, on or under any parked vehicle, including an automobile, bus, truck, camper, trailer or recreational vehicle.

(b ) Setting-up Bedding – 11 p.m. to 8:30 a.m. To establish or maintain outdoors or in, on or under any structure not intended for human occupancy, at any time between the hours of 11 p.m. to 8:30 a.m., a temporary or permanent place for sleeping, by setting up any bedding, sleeping bag, blanket, mattress, tent, hammock or other sleeping equipment in such a manner as to be immediately usable for sleeping purposes.

© Setting-up Campsite – Anytime. To establish or maintain outdoors or in, on, or under any structure not intended for human occupancy, at any time during the day or night, a temporary or permanent place for cooking or sleeping, by setting up any bedding, sleeping bag, blanket, mattress, tent, hammock or other sleeping equipment or by setting up any cooking equipment, with the intent to remain in that location overnight.

(Ord. 99-01 § 1, 1999: Ord. 78-29, § 2, 1978).

6.36.020 CAMPING PERMITTED. v:shapes="_x0000_i1026">

Camping may be permitted in the city of Santa Cruz only under the following circumstances:

(a) Camping in public areas specifically set aside and clearly marked for public camping purposes;

(b ) Camping events authorized and permitted by the Santa Cruz City parks and recreation department;

© Camping events authorized by the city council pursuant to Section 6.36.030;

(d) Camping:

(i) In the yard of a residence with the consent of the owner or occupant of the residence, where the camping is in the rear yard, or in an area of a side yard or front yard that is separated from view from the street by a fence, hedge or other obstruction; or

(ii) Inside of a licensed and registered motor vehicle in the parking lot on the site of a religious institution with the written consent of such institution, where the driver/occupant of such vehicle is in possession of a valid driver’s license, provided that no more than three vehicles shall be permitted at any one location; or

(iii) Inside of a licensed and registered motor vehicle in the parking lot on the site of a business institution in a non-residential district with the written consent of both the business institution and property owner, where the driver/occupant of such vehicle is in possession of a valid driver’s license, provided that no more than two vehicles shall be permitted at any one location;

(iv) Inside a licensed and registered vehicle in a residential off-street driveway with the written consent of the owner and occupant of the residence, where the driver/occupant of such vehicle is in possession of a valid driver’s license, provided that no more than one vehicle shall be permitted at any one location. No particular location shall be used for camping under this provision for more than three days during any one calendar month.

Camping shall not be permitted under this subsection where it is conducted in such a manner as to create noise, inadequate sanitation, or other matters offensive to persons of ordinary sensibility; nor where the camping is of such frequency, intensity or duration as to constitute a use of land prohibited by any provision of Title 24 of this code; nor where the camping activity would be prohibited under any other provision of this code concerning use of mobilehomes; nor where any fee, charge or other monetary consideration is collected for the privilege of camping or for any services or the use of any facilities related thereto; nor where the covenants, conditions and restrictions of a duly organized homeowners association would prohibit the activity in the residential area subject to the covenants, conditions and restrictions.

(Ord. 2002-12 § 1, 2002: Ord. 2002-05 § 1, 2002: Ord. 99-01 § 2, 1999: Ord. 95-22, § 1, 1995: Ord. 78-29, § 2, 1978).

6.36.030 PERMIT FOR CAMPING IN CITY PARKS.

(a) The director of parks and recreation may issue a permit authorizing persons or groups to camp in the improved areas of Harvey West Park, the improved area known as lower De Laveaga Park adjacent to Branciforte Drive and San Lorenzo Park bench lands upon finding that the applicant has met the city’s requirements for:

(1) Parking and traffic control;

(2) Toilet and other sanitary facilities;

(3) Security;

(4) Liability insurance;

(5) Garbage collection and cleanup;

(6) Security and cleanup deposits;

(7) Such other public health, safety and general welfare matters as may be raised by the camping application; and

(8) Environmental compliance according to the California Environmental Quality Act (CEQA) and the city’s CEQA Guidelines.

(b ) Except as set forth in subsection © no person or group may camp in a city park under authority of this section for more than three nights in any twelve months. No permit shall be required for security guards who camp in city parks incident to a lawful event.

© Where the camping activity is taking place in conjunction with an authorized and permitted restoration or conservation project being performed by campers at or near the campsite, the director of parks and recreation may permit an individual or group to camp in one of the afore-referenced city parks for a period of time in excess of that prescribed in subsection (b ).

(d) To ensure the fair and consistent application of this section, the director of parks and recreation shall promulgate regulations defining the criteria for permit issuance contained in this section.

(Ord. 2002-05 § 2, 2002: Ord. 89-33 § 1, 1989).

6.36.040 PENALTY – SINGLE OFFENSE.

Any person who violates any section in this chapter is guilty of an infraction and shall be subject to a fine of not more than twenty dollars. Alternatively any person who violates any section in this chapter, in lieu of a fine may, if that person so requests, be required to provide no more than eight hours of community service.

(Ord. 99-01 § 3, 1999: Ord. 79-41 § 1, 1979).

6.36.050 PENALTY – SUBSEQUENT OFFENSE WITHIN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS.

Any person who violates any section in this chapter, other than subsections (a) and (b ) of Section 6.36.010, and is cited for such violation, and who within twenty-four hours after receiving such citation again violates the same section, is guilty of a misdemeanor.

(Ord. 99-01 § 4, 1999: Ord. 79-41 § l, 1979).

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From Walmart's Website:-

Can I park my RV at a Walmart store?

While we do not offer electrical service or accommodations typically necessary for RV customers, Walmart values RV travelers and considers them among our best customers. Consequently, we do permit RV parking on our store parking lots as we are able. Permission to park is extended by individual store managers, based on availability of parking space and local laws. Please contact management in each store to ensure accommodations before parking your RV.

This is just to reinforce your comments Derek. There are many places where a person cannot even camp in their own RV in their own backyard. As to Walmart? There are many Walmart stores in areas where camping in their parking lots is illegal due to local law. The Santa Cruz laws is well crafted. Note they require you get written permission from the "owner" of the property. Good luck finding an owner at a Walmart store and getting permission in writing.

I took my family to the Florida Keys (my first time) 30 years ago in my Chevy van. I parked overnight at another store lot that supposedly allowed camping (Piggly Wiggly I think). This in Florida City. Cop came by and told me he'd write me a ticket unless I got a paid-campsite somewhere and came back to the police station with a receipt proving so. And THAT was 30 years ago !

The key sentence here is . . "more and more municipalities are making it illegal to sleep in an RV unless you're in a licensed RV park or campground."

The Walmart Corporate Policy on Overnight RV Parking, as stated on the corporate website is:

"While we do not offer electrical service or accommodations typically necessary for RV customers, Walmart values RV travelers and considers them among our best customers. Consequently, we do permit RV parking on our store lots as we are able. Permission to park is extended by individual store managers, based on availability of parking space and local laws. Please contact management in each store to ensure accommodations before parking your RV."

The store manager said that RVers were parking overnight without permission from the store, parking for multiple nights, leaving trash in the lot when they finally departed, and in some cases had damaged the asphalt surface of the parking lot with the levelers on their RVs. Therefore, this store no longer grants permission to RVs or to trucks to park overnight.

There are far too many RVers who believe that they may park at any Walmart for as many nights as they like, and that they don't need permission to park there. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Due to abuses like those described above, more and more municipalities are making it illegal to sleep in an RV unless you're in a licensed RV park or campground. Even where Overnight RV Parking is still legal, many Walmart managers are changing their store policy and banning it, due to RVer abuse of the privilege.