zero Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 I cannot figure how I neither heard of this thing, nor have I ever see one. I used to work for a Sunbeam dealer late 60s, near New York City. In fact, I was kind of a Sunbeam nut and had many British Alpines and Rapiers. Also half-a-dozen of the Alpines that Carol Shelby converted into Tigers by sticking Ford 260 V8s into them. My 1965 Sunbeam Tiger with the Ford 260 V8, Ford cast-iron four-speed trans, and Jeep rear axle was the most amazing car I ever owned. From what I've read so far, this "Funwagon" had the same 1725 cc four-cylinder engine that the Sunbeam Alpines had in them. Considering this ad is from 1967, I'm going to assume that Chrysler Corporation ruined it, just as they did the Sunbeam Tiger when they bought the Lord Rootes-Group British car maker. I wonder how many were sold and how many are left? Perhaps they only got sold on the west-coast. For an RV in the USA in 1967, this thing was ahead of its time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace57 Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 That is so cool. I would like to see the inside of it, said it could seat nine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 That's just a conversion on a Rootes/Commer van. I'm not sure how much involvement Chrysler had with their sales in North America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 That's just a conversion on a Rootes/Commer van. I'm not sure how much involvement Chrysler had with their sales in North America. Chrysler used some of the British platforms for sales in the USA and then bailed out. They also put the "Dodge" nametag on the Commer overseas for awhile. My favorite USA import -the Sunbeam Tiger was basically ruined by Chrysler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'd hardly expect Chrysler to sell a Ford powered car. The 273 wouldn't fit. The 221, 260 & 289 barely did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 I'd hardly expect Chrysler to sell a Ford powered car. The 273 wouldn't fit. The 221 , 260 & 289 barely did. Yes, I was a member of CAT when our newsletter said Chrysler was considering putting a 273 into it. Good Lord ! Carol Shelby would of been rolling in his grave (had he been dead then). "CAT" was California Association of Tigers." I was living in New Jersey but at the time, it was the only Tiger club in the USA. The Tiger already had some pretty serious design problems with the 260 shoe-horned in there. Shelby put in rack-and-pinion steering to make room for it and lost ALL the Ackerman Angle in the steering. So a Tiger even going slow burnt up tires and squealed whenever making a turn. To those who don't know what the Ackerman Angle is - it's the ability of the front wheels to wander away from each other and NOT stay parallel when turning. E.g. when you make a left turn, the left wheel goes on a smaller turning circle then the right wheel. So the left wheel has to "toe out" when turning, and "toe in" and get parallel with the other when going straight. Any production car or truck does that. NOT the Tiger. My first Tiger had a 260. My second a 289. My third had a modified 351 jammed into it and the floor got so hot my feet would burn. Ralph Smart was driving a Tiger in the beginning of "Get Smart." From what I've read, Chrysler had it changed - so in a away, hey ruined the show too. At least for me. I found the show to be "stoopid" but I liked seeing him drive the Tiger and also liked Agent 99. She was cute. But so was Honey West with her "other Shelby." The AC Cobra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes, I was a member of CAT when our newsletter said Chrysler was considering putting a 273 into it. Good Lord ! Carol Shelby would of been rolling in his grave (had he been dead then). "CAT" was California Association of Tigers." I was living in New Jersey but at the time, it was the only Tiger club in the USA. The Tiger already had some pretty serious design problems with the 260 shoe-horned in there. Shelby put in rack-and-pinion steering to make room for it and lost ALL the Ackerman Angle in the steering. So a Tiger even going slow burnt up tires and squealed whenever making a turn. To those who don't know what the Ackerman Angle is - it's the ability of the front wheels to wander away from each other and NOT stay parallel when turning. E.g. when you make a left turn, the left wheel goes on a smaller turning circle then the right wheel. So the left wheel has to "toe out" when turning, and "toe in" and get parallel with the other when going straight. Any production car or truck does that. NOT the Tiger. My first Tiger had a 260. My second a 289. My third had a modified 351 jammed into it and the floor got so hot my feet would burn. Ralph Smart was driving a Tiger in the beginning of "Get Smart." From what I've read, Chrysler had it changed - so in a away, hey ruined the show too. At least for me. I found the show to be "stoopid" but I liked seeing him drive the Tiger and also liked Agent 99. She was cute. But so was Honey West with her "other Shelby." The AC Cobra. JDE, Correction: I think that you meant, 'Maxwell Smart' (aka Agent 86). Ya, I can be a wise guy sometimes. And, I do remember the Tiger he drove before he changed to a VW Karman Ghia. You've been posting some real cool stuff lately...good job! ~Riverman77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 JDE, Correction: I think that you meant, 'Maxwell Smart' (aka Agent 86). Ya, I can be a wise guy sometimes. And, I do remember the Tiger he drove before he changed to a VW Karman Ghia. You've been posting some real cool stuff lately...good job! ~Riverman77 Yes, you are correct. I have no idea where "Ralph Smart" comes from. Just happens to be what my head calls the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 More Tiger information: According to Dick Sanders of the Pacific Tiger Club, "a look-a-like Sunbeam Alpine (rebadged with Tiger script on the side) of the same vintage ('65 or '66) was used in almost all of the shows where a Sunbeam appeared. There wasn't room to mount a machine gun (or much of anything else) under the hood of the V8-powered Tiger, so they used the Alpine which has a smaller 4-cylinder motor." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 More Tiger information: According to Dick Sanders of the Pacific Tiger Club, "a look-a-like Sunbeam Alpine (rebadged with Tiger script on the side) of the same vintage ('65 or '66) was used in almost all of the shows where a Sunbeam appeared. There wasn't room to mount a machine gun (or much of anything else) under the hood of the V8-powered Tiger, so they used the Alpine which has a smaller 4-cylinder motor." If true - it kind of makes me wonder . . Why would they bother? I'm sure the average American RV viewer had no idea what a Rootes Sunbeam Alpine was, as well as not idea what a Tiger was. Need a rear view of that car to see if it has dual exhaust. Or a view of the dashboard that was different on the Tiger. I hope it wasn't a fake Tiger. I know, at least the detective show with that hot blonde, Anne Francis, called "Honey West" had a small-block Ford V8 under the hook of her converted British Shelby car (AC Bristol to AC Cobra.). At least the sound-track had a sound of a Ford V8. Here are photos of the three cars I had in 1971. 1966 "Lord Rootes" Sunbeam Alpine with 1725 cc four-cylinder engine, 1965 Sunbeam Tiger 302 V8 (with the hard-top) at a Tiger meet and race in Atlantic City, NY, and my 1964 SS Chevelle with a few of my pet goats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Why would they bother? "There wasn't room to mount a machine gun ..." The Cobra was built from the AC Ace 2.6. Bristol had stopped producing their engines in 1961 so the last 37 Aces were actually powered by a hopped-up version of the 2.6l Ford straight six in a modified chassis and body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 I worked next to a place that sold odd-ball British cars late 60s, early 70s. They had a 289 Cobra there. I never saw a 427 version. Also Tigers. Also TVRs with 289 Ford V8s. I've ready many stories on the cars on Get Smart. Many souces claim there were two Sunbeams. A Tiger and an Alpine. I also believe the story about "Max Smart's" daughters wrecking the Tiger, twice. Tigers were real easy cars to wreck. I ruined four of them. For what it's worth, Max drove three cars through out the series -but there were a few exceptions. His main machine was a red Sunbeam Tiger convertible. For the sake of trivia, Don Adams owned this car -it was part of his payment. He later gave it to one of his daughters and she wrecked it. He then spent all kinds of money fixing it and gave it to another daughter, who also wrecked it. Ouch. The second Smart car was a blue Kharman Ghia -which comes out of the Volkswagen line. It was featured in the opening shots, but not in the episodes. Apparently showcasing the Ghia was tied in with Volkswagen's advertising. Ghias were always my dream car -despite the fact that all I can afford is a 10-year-old Cavalier. The third car was the gold Opel GT which was used only during the last season. This particular Opel was resurrected as junker in the movie Stripes. The Opel is yet another product of crass consumerism as it was featured as a part of advertising for the show. There were a few occasions where Max used a different car during the episodes. A Sunbeam Alpine was often substituted for the Tiger because was easier to mount Max's spy do-dads under its hood. A Citroen was used in "With Love and Twitches." Max also drove the Chief's car -a Ford Mustang. In the pilot episode, the opening scene showed Max driving a Ferrari 250 GT Cabriolet. Another mustang -Z The Zebra Car- was used in "Our Man in Leotards." According to Smartian Sue, the car was created by George Barris, who's resume includes creating the Munster cars and the Batmoble. The Zebra Car has seen a lot of mileage, appearing in" Marriage on the Rocks" with Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I worked next to a place that sold odd-ball British cars late 60s, early 70s. They had a 289 Cobra there. I never saw a 427 version. Also Tigers. Also TVRs with 289 Ford V8s. I've ready many stories on the cars on Get Smart. Many souces claim there were two Sunbeams. A Tiger and an Alpine. I also believe the story about "Max Smart's" daughters wrecking the Tiger, twice. Tigers were real easy cars to wreck. I ruined four of them. For what it's worth, Max drove three cars through out the series -but there were a few exceptions. His main machine was a red Sunbeam Tiger convertible. For the sake of trivia, Don Adams owned this car -it was part of his payment. He later gave it to one of his daughters and she wrecked it. He then spent all kinds of money fixing it and gave it to another daughter, who also wrecked it. Ouch. The second Smart car was a blue Kharman Ghia -which comes out of the Volkswagen line. It was featured in the opening shots, but not in the episodes. Apparently showcasing the Ghia was tied in with Volkswagen's advertising. Ghias were always my dream car -despite the fact that all I can afford is a 10-year-old Cavalier. The third car was the gold Opel GT which was used only during the last season. This particular Opel was resurrected as junker in the movie Stripes. The Opel is yet another product of crass consumerism as it was featured as a part of advertising for the show. There were a few occasions where Max used a different car during the episodes. A Sunbeam Alpine was often substituted for the Tiger because was easier to mount Max's spy do-dads under its hood. A Citroen was used in "With Love and Twitches." Max also drove the Chief's car -a Ford Mustang. In the pilot episode, the opening scene showed Max driving a Ferrari 250 GT Cabriolet. Another mustang -Z The Zebra Car- was used in "Our Man in Leotards." According to Smartian Sue, the car was created by George Barris, who's resume includes creating the Munster cars and the Batmoble. The Zebra Car has seen a lot of mileage, appearing in" Marriage on the Rocks" with Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra. JDE, Boy, that sure take me back a few years. I do now remember seeing some of those other cars of Max's (with the thumbnail you posted). I don't recall ever seeing a Citroen on the show. They must have been driven by those bad K.A.O.S. Agents. ~Riverman77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I don't recall ever seeing a Citroen on the show. They must have been driven by those bad K.A.O.S. Agents. Certainly not by anyone wanting to make a quick getaway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Certainly not by anyone wanting to make a quick getaway. Didn't those 2CV model's have something odd like a 3 cylinder, 25hp engine, that broke down all of the time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Without Googling and from memory, I think it was 2 cylinder (~350cc?) and 16hp. Maybe 18hp (with the turbo). EDIT. Just couldn't resist Googling. 375cc & 9hp. About the same as a decent sized snowblower. And about as fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Saab and DKW both had 3 cylinder 2c. I had a Saab 850 Monte Carlo GT. Oil injection, ported factory engine with a 3 barrel Solex carb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 It seems whenever there is a high speed movie chase scene taking place in France, there is always some poor farmer rounding a curve at 10 MPH in his Deux Chevaux . The 2CV with 425 ccs was a powerhouse when compared to the 1961 BMW Isetta 300 I used to have with a 250 cc engine. My manual with the Sunbeams in it also has the old Citroens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donnie Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Don't laugh at the French cars, I've had my share of them..a 403, moon roof sedan, a 404 sedan, a 404 wagen--still have it & a 504 diesel wagen that we used for a shop car until I rebuilt it at about 210,000 miles & broke a ring on the piston install....couldn't bring myself to pull it down again so I scrapped it.. I didn't catch it until start up.....then I was very upset.. It was my own fault....I'll never live that one down..A favorite car for all of us. Lost my a$$ on that job....parts were salty & I replaced the clutch assy while I had it out. The old diesel would do close to 30 mpg on diesel & atf mix. Everyone loved that car, Several different drivers & large loads....One of the best cars that I EVER had...Been gone 15 years & I still wish I would have kept it. :-(> If any one gets nostalgic reading about DKW----I have a large porcelain dealer sign still hanging in my shop $$4 sale.......Been parting out some of my collection.... I too had a little red Alpine in the 60's too...lost it in a chain reaction 3 car accident on the way to work one am.....I was in the middle.... I like that little motorhome that JD mentioned at the start of this thread....NEVER SAW ONE....Maris, did you get that Ultra van? We are all probably going to get chastised for running foreign unrelated bull$hite on this Toyota forum...I like to recall all the old memories, but I'm not sure how the other members feel about it.....It's 20 degrees here today, I'm going to see if my Rabbit diesel will start.......I'm out..............Donnie FORGOT TO MENTION-----THESE WERE Peugeot vehicles, not Citroen's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 23, 2015 Author Share Posted February 23, 2015 Don't laugh at the French cars Peugeot vehicles, not Citroen's The French were pioneers in the evolution of the automobile. It can be argued the first self-propelled vehicle was built by a Frenchman (Cugnot). First car with a steering wheel was French (Panhard). First stabilizer bar that is STILL called a Panhard Rod (IPanhard again). First automotive safety glass (Triplex of France), first steel-belted radial tire (Michelin of France), first four-stroke-cycle engine (Rochas of France), etc. My great-grandmother from Seix, southern France had the family name of BIELLE. Translation - "connecting rod." Seems once the French got socialized, they lost their innovation. That being said, the once great Japanese company of Datstun/Nissan is now French. I've still got a VW diesel 1.6 in a 1991 Jetta. Not something I'd want to try to run when it's 0 degrees F outside. We had 32 F below here a few days ago and I would not trust any diesel to run at that kind of temp unless it had heated fuel. I had several Peugots in the past. I don't blame them for quitting the USA. I also had several two-stroke-cycle Saabs and one DKW. No Ultravan yet. I'm waiting for temps to get at least above 30 degrees F before I drive over to look it over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Thanks guys for all the cool info on the Citroen. I've never been too thrilled about them. But, after seeing that video (Derek provided), it was great to see that prototype 'one eyed' little monster! It kind of reminded me of the very basic and simple KDF Wagons (VW) of the late 30's. Hitler's 'Peoples Car' also had canvas seats, a dipstick to measure petrol and (if I remember correctly) a hand crank type of wind swipes. Yep, the Citroen People's Car was basic yet, a cool car for the masses. ~Riverman77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbone Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 That "Funwagon" looked pretty interesting to me. I agree, ahead of it's time in 67! Now I can't help to wonder if any of us will ever see one. I won't soon forget the "Funwagon" and will have my traveling eyes open! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbone Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Actually the body style reminded me of the old Ice Cream trucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 The Balboa is similar and I do see them come up for sale from time to time http://api.ning.com/files/WaSnfdYlR7aM0mdTHUhO9aRJutltDO2s2xgujrozgswAyv0KFcyL3uTGfhmBYpYXyimgxRJbezaSCspkVo9d2XViCYpCKROH/000_5862.JPG Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 26, 2015 Author Share Posted February 26, 2015 That Balboa certainly isn't similar when it comes to drive-train or fuel-mileage potential. Might have a similar "look" at a glance. I suspect the Funwagon was good on fuel but no "fun" to drive. To the converse, something on Dodge running gear will likely be fine to drive but get likely get around 8-10 MPG. That is unless somebody stuck a Slant-Six in that Mopar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yes I was referring only to the look of it. My 318 got way more miles than that. I had a 1968 Dodge Travco Family Wagon camper. Lived in Rochester and had a boyfriend in NY. Never took more than 1 tank to get there and 1 to get home. Over 15mpg solid. It was a pop top though Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 Yes I was referring only to the look of it. My 318 got way more miles than that. I had a 1968 Dodge Travco Family Wagon camper. Lived in Rochester and had a boyfriend in NY. Never took more than 1 tank to get there and 1 to get home. Over 15mpg solid. It was a pop top though Linda S I'll believe it when I see it. A friend of mine has two 70s Dodge van-based RVs. Both he brought up to NY from Florida and raved about their gas mileage. The best one got 14 MPG on a few southern flatland trips. Now in central NY? Best tankfull he's gotten is 11 MPG. That's with a Champion Transvan with a 318. He has another with a 360 that gets around the same mileage. He now is using a 1995 Ford van-based RV. 302 V8 and 3/4 ton platform. Gets 12.5 MPG when in NY. His other Ford is a newer and much bigger on a 1 ton platform, dual wheels and a 460 V8. That one gets a best of 9 MPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I circled the country in a very large heavy Dodge van camper in 2002 with the 360. Traveled around 8000 miles. Kept meticulous fuel and mileage records cause the gas gauge didn't work and running out of gas was not an option cause I was traveling with my young daughter. Averaged 12 mpg for the whole trip. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 I circled the country in a very large heavy Dodge van camper in 2002 with the 360. Traveled around 8000 miles. Kept meticulous fuel and mileage records cause the gas gauge didn't work and running out of gas was not an option cause I was traveling with my young daughter. Averaged 12 mpg for the whole trip. Linda S That's in the same ball-park as what my friend got down south. NOT when he got to the hills and higher altitude of NY though. Like I said, he was bragging about getting 14 MPG at times when near the coast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 On the subject of RVs similar to that Funwagon. Here's a few other British RVs from the 70s. The Ford Transit van used 14" tires like our Toyotas and a few had full-floating dually rears that look very similar to what came later in Toyotas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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