Re Building The Living Quarters

[thetundrawolf]

Hello,

I have an RV that I love. It is a 1982 Toyota Dolphin, 20'.

I have already rebuilt the engine, the transmission, and the rearend, plus the driveline. I also have most of the stuff needed to make it a 4x4.

But the back end is rotted out. It was stored by the ocean for a long time and some of the wood is absolutely rotting away.

I cannot stay inside of it for too long because of all of the mold inside of the walls.

So today I began tearing all of the skin off. The skin is not in good condition, either. I recently stripped a 40' 5th wheel of it's skin, in hopes of having enough to do this RV with.

I am down to the wooden frame and insulation currently.

Can anyone give me some hints, tips, and advice?

I am going to make the back end of it open like a toy hauler for putting a quad in there. As far as the roof goes, it is going to have a steel skeleton with a peak in the middle so water will not pool. I am going to beef it up where I can, because roof leaks are a nightmare.

I am probably going to re- use the windows. I am going to use 2x4's I will cut in half. Foam insulation and expanding foam to seal it. A coat or two of mold resistant primer on everything inside and out before it goes back together.

Also looking to add another three inches of height to the cabover because I am pretty tall and would like to sit up up there.

[Derek up North]

'Beefing up' is a wonderful idea, but just remember you're going to be fighting the same enemy as the original builder: WEIGHT.

[thetundrawolf]

'Beefing up' is a wonderful idea, but just remember you're going to be fighting the same enemy as the original builder: WEIGHT.

Very good point.

But if I add some heft to it, maybe adding a 1/2" thickness to the wood, in the end if I were to shave off that and weigh it, it might weigh 5LBS. 10 lbs... Foam weighs next to nothing... It's the steel that may add some weight.

Fiberglass weighs more than aluminum, and aluminum weighs more than wood in similar applications.

My worry is the solar system my boss just gave me... 6 6 volt batteries that weigh 70 lbs a piece. That's almost 400 lbs... Maybe I will delete two of them for the RV and go with a 24 volt inverter.

The inside of the RV is going to be as spartan as it gets. A toilet and shower, some shelves. Mostly open. I like it that way.

[Derek up North]

Most find 2 x 6v more than enough.

[thetundrawolf]

Funny you say that, I am looking at a sine wave inverter @ 1,000 watts that is 12V. I have 500+100 watts of solar to keep it charged. The inverter draws 11.4amps with a 540 watt load, and based on the batteries it will power it for a week before they are dead, without solar input. But that is a 12V system (6+6) so you are right.

[Derek up North]

Have you got enough room on the roof for that many panels?

[thetundrawolf]

Have you got enough room on the roof for that many panels?

Not now I don't. But I have enough material to completely re- do the roof. I will be able to re arrange things so they will fit.

[Derek up North]

Well, I'd suggest not straying too far from the original construction materials. Just improve on it. More rot resistant materials and glue & screw instead of staples.

[thetundrawolf]

Well, I'd suggest not straying too far from the original construction materials. Just improve on it. More rot resistant materials and glue & screw instead of staples.

Glue and screw? Do you have any examples?

The pocket joint:

http://www.amazon.com/Kreg-R3-Pocket-Hole-System/dp/B000J43A7W

Now for the floor plan. More or less. Want it open...

But the windows. There were a lot of them. But I like a lot of light... Not sure what to do.

Edited December 21, 2014 by thetundrawolf

[Derek up North]

Yes, that's what I had in mind. For sure a stronger result (especially with some good glue added) than a few rusted out staples!

"Pocket hole joinery is plenty strong for most applications, especially when combined with gluing. Unless you want to create a project that can be taken apart and reassembled, I always recommend applying glue to the mating surfaces during assembly."

http://www.houzz.com/ideabooks/17850302/list/pocket-hole-joinery-the-beginning-woodworkers-best-friend

Remember, the original materials and methods did manage to survive for decades, especially through the critical time when these were just 'cheap, old motorhomes'. Improved materials, methods and maintenance should have a rebuild last just as long or even longer.

[zero]

Funny you say that, I am looking at a sine wave inverter @ 1,000 watts that is 12V. I have 500+100 watts of solar to keep it charged. The inverter draws 11.4amps with a 540 watt load, and based on the batteries it will power it for a week before they are dead, without solar input. But that is a 12V system (6+6) so you are right.

What you say is impossible. At least on this planet and this dimension. Am I misreading something? An inverter drawing 11.4 amps @ 12 volts is going to be lucky to provide an output of 125 watts. Nowhere near 540 watts. If you want 540 watts from an inverter running on 12 volts - the input will be using 47-48 amps of current. Makes no difference it the inverter is being callled "sine wave" or "modified wave." In fact the cheaper modified-wave inverters are often more efficient. The "sine-wave" inverters do make a better wave but the portable ones usually do NOT make a true curved sine-wave. A 1000 watt inverter capable of making a true sine-wave is going to cost a couple of thousand bucks. An inverter that makes a wave that is close to a sine-wave and sold as a "true sine wave" is going to cost $250-$300. A 1000 watt modified-wave inverter can be had for $75. I own over dozen inverters called "true sine wave" and have experimented with them all. Many subtle differences and it's more-or-less a crap shoot.

As to the need for 2, 4, or 6 large six-volt deep cycle batteries? The big factor is voltage drop inside the battery cases when using an inverter. Unlike a car or truck 12 volt system that is designed to work well at 9 volts. and inverter MUST have at least 10.5 volts ALL of the time. If voltage dips to 10.4 volts even for a millisecond - the inverter shuts down. I've found that a pair of Trojan T-105 deep cycle six-volt batteries - or any other brand GC-2 type battery - can provide around 1000 watts of power before the voltage dips too low. If you take a standard microwave maybe rated 900 watts and turn it on - it will first draw around 1300 watts, draw 110 -120 amps from your batteries. Two batteries can barely handle that. My point being - it all depends on what you plan on using your inverter for. Two batteries can handle many things but when hooked to an inverter -will not handle spikes of over 1300 watts even if you have a 5000 watt inverter.

As to the new construction of our RV? I've been wrong before but I think you are going to find out how weight adds up in unexpected ways.

[zero]

By the way, I forgot to ask. Any decent 1000 watt inverter will be able to run at 2000 watts for a few seconds. Also some are set to shut down at 10 volts instead of 10.5 volts. What model and make are you going to buy?

[Totem]

To save weight on on the "toy hauler" I would suggest while the frame is open ... Scrap all cabinets and don't use any. In fact pitch mostly everything out of it to bare bones and use hammocks for sleeping and bana hammocks for storage, they weigh nothing and hold a lot. This way you can attempt to offset the weight of the quad and still keep your weIght on the bearings within spec.

[linda s]

To save weight on on the "toy hauler" I would suggest while the frame is open ... Scrap all cabinets and don't use any. In fact pitch mostly everything out of it to bare bones and use hammocks for sleeping and bana hammocks for storage, they weigh nothing and hold a lot. This way you can attempt to offset the weight of the quad and still keep your weIght on the bearings within spec.

My friend Rich did exactly that in his Sunrader to remove maximum weight. Only thing he left intact was the Sunrader fiberglass shower bathroom combo. All storage was plastic bins held in place with straps for travel. Cooking and dish washing was done outside with a little barbeque and dish pans.

Linda S

[thetundrawolf]

What you say is impossible. At least on this planet and this dimension. Am I misreading something? An inverter drawing 11.4 amps @ 12 volts is going to be lucky to provide an output of 125 watts. Nowhere near 540 watts. If you want 540 watts from an inverter running on 12 volts - the input will be using 47-48 amps of current. Makes no difference it the inverter is being callled "sine wave" or "modified wave." In fact the cheaper modified-wave inverters are often more efficient. The "sine-wave" inverters do make a better wave but the portable ones usually do NOT make a true curved sine-wave. A 1000 watt inverter capable of making a true sine-wave is going to cost a couple of thousand bucks. An inverter that makes a wave that is close to a sine-wave and sold as a "true sine wave" is going to cost $250-$300. A 1000 watt modified-wave inverter can be had for $75. I own over dozen inverters called "true sine wave" and have experimented with them all. Many subtle differences and it's more-or-less a crap shoot.

As to the need for 2, 4, or 6 large six-volt deep cycle batteries? The big factor is voltage drop inside the battery cases when using an inverter. Unlike a car or truck 12 volt system that is designed to work well at 9 volts. and inverter MUST have at least 10.5 volts ALL of the time. If voltage dips to 10.4 volts even for a millisecond - the inverter shuts down. I've found that a pair of Trojan T-105 deep cycle six-volt batteries - or any other brand GC-2 type battery - can provide around 1000 watts of power before the voltage dips too low. If you take a standard microwave maybe rated 900 watts and turn it on - it will first draw around 1300 watts, draw 110 -120 amps from your batteries. Two batteries can barely handle that. My point being - it all depends on what you plan on using your inverter for. Two batteries can handle many things but when hooked to an inverter -will not handle spikes of over 1300 watts even if you have a 5000 watt inverter.

As to the new construction of our RV? I've been wrong before but I think you are going to find out how weight adds up in unexpected ways.

The inverter has a small display on it. My guess is the guy who said it only drew 11 amps with a 540 watt load was looking at the battery voltage. You're right. I wish I had an accurate current draw graph.

http://www.amazon.com/Sunforce-11240-Inverter-Remote-Control/dp/B000WGNNUQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1418700617&sr=8-1&keywords=1000w+pure+sine+wave#customerReviews

I wish I could weigh it without the shell somewhere to see what it would all end up weighing. To be honest, it's not going to be much. Maybe a couple hundred pounds, max. The axle is rated at 2,000 lbs and is full floating. I will be conscious of weight. There's only so much I can do.

[zero]

. The axle is rated at 2,000 lbs and is full floating. I will be conscious of weight. There's only so much I can do.

What sort of full-floating axle is only rated 2000 lbs? I can't think of any. Dana 23-2 is the smallest I've ever seen and it's rated a little over 3000 lbs. Used on 40s military Jeeps. The full-floater used in theToyota RVs has over a 5000 lb rating.

[zero]

Here's the small full-floater I'm talking about. Dana 23-2.

[linda s]

Can't see much of it in the pics but sure looks like the regular Toyota 6 lug full float axle to me. Maybe he thought because it's called a 1 ton axle it's only rated for that

Linda S

[thetundrawolf]

Can't see much of it in the pics but sure looks like the regular Toyota 6 lug full float axle to me. Maybe he thought because it's called a 1 ton axle it's only rated for that

Linda S

Yeah, honestly, why call it a one ton?

What sort of full-floating axle is only rated 2000 lbs? I can't think of any. Dana 23-2 is the smallest I've ever seen and it's rated a little over 3000 lbs. Used on 40s military Jeeps. The full-floater used in theToyota RVs has over a 5000 lb rating.

I bought a full floating Toyota from a guy who had a nineties pickup in his bone yard. I put it under my RV and drove it about 600 miles before it blew out. Turned out the passenger side was bent, and the driveshaft on that side flexed until it blew the six bolt end plate out. Luckily it blew out right in my drive way!

I bought another housing and I was back on the road. Here is the thread: http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=6341&hl=

Since installing the new housing, I have put a lot of weight in the RV moving my stuff from an emergency move in CA to AZ. At least a half ton of extra weight, probably more than that, but not over a full ton.

Where do you get the 5,000 pound rating on the axle?

[zero]

Yeah, honestly, why call it a one ton?

The use of "1 ton" with a truck or just an axle is not a specific term. The connotaton of it comes from what a 1 ton truck might have. A 1 ton truck needs at least an axle capable of carrying the weight of the truck PLUS a short-ton of 2000 lbs. If the truck already weighs 2000 lbs. in back, then the "1 ton' axle needs to be rated for at least 4000 lbs. My Dodge 3/4 ton truck has a rear axle rated for 8,800 lbs. I.e over 4 tons.

[zero]

Yeah, honestly, why call it a one ton?

I bought a full floating Toyota from a guy who had a nineties pickup in his bone yard. I put it under my RV and drove it about 600 miles before it blew out. Turned out the passenger side was bent, and the driveshaft on that side flexed until it blew the six bolt end plate out. Luckily it blew out right in my drive way!

Where do you get the 5,000 pound rating on the axle?

I guess you are saying the axle-tube was bent? Toyota full-floater has axle tubes 3 1/8" OD.

Toyota/Dyna literature and comparing axle and bearing sizes to other axles. Toyota/Dyna rates the full-floater at 4800 lbs. or 5400 lbs. depending on which spec sheet you want to believe. The stock Toyota semi-floater with 5 lugs is rated at 3300 lbs.

[thetundrawolf]

The use of "1 ton" with a truck or just an axle is not a specific term. The connotaton of it comes from what a 1 ton truck might have. A 1 ton truck needs at least an axle capable of carrying the weight of the truck PLUS a short-ton of 2000 lbs. If the truck already weighs 2000 lbs. in back, then the "1 ton' axle needs to be rated for at least 4000 lbs. My Dodge 3/4 ton truck has a rear axle rated for 8,800 lbs. I.e over 4 tons.

I had no idea. Thanks for the information. My old axle was bent maybe 1/4" upward at the end.

[snail powered]

looks like a good opportunity to take it down to the frame and transplant a fiberglass shell onto the frame.

[thetundrawolf]

looks like a good opportunity to take it down to the frame and transplant a fiberglass shell onto the frame.

I have considered this. Fiberglass is a better insulator temperature wise. but it also weighs more. And I need something I don't have: A donor. I would consider it if I had a donor to be honest. But right now I have a ton of aluminum siding I got from A 40ft fifth wheel trailer.

[thetundrawolf]

Can anyone tell me a way to find out if there are any scales near me? I searched and apparently there is one a hundred miles away in Phoenix (I am in Prescott, az).

I want to do a before and after weigh...

[WME]

Truck stops, land fills, Farmer CoOps. Call the local DOT office and see where the state ran scales are.

[linda s]

In my daughters town they have a place to take your garbage when your not in a pick up zone. They weigh your vehicle when you come in and the again when you leave to figure the cost. Looks like Prescott has the same. Look at the transfer station here

http://www.prescott-az.gov/services/trash/

Looked on Google and it looks they do the same. That's a scale going in and out

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5790126,-112.4236382,50m/data=!3m1!1e3

Just ask the guys and offer to pay the 5 dollar minumum

Linda S

Just told my daughter I suggested this to you and she says she recommends the same to guys who come into her work who are doing modifications. She works at California DMV and she says the scales at the dump are very accurate.

[thetundrawolf]

In my daughters town they have a place to take your garbage when your not in a pick up zone. They weigh your vehicle when you come in and the again when you leave to figure the cost. Looks like Prescott has the same. Look at the transfer station here

http://www.prescott-az.gov/services/trash/

Looked on Google and it looks they do the same. That's a scale going in and out

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.5790126,-112.4236382,50m/data=!3m1!1e3

Just ask the guys and offer to pay the 5 dollar minumum

Linda S

Just told my daughter I suggested this to you and she says she recommends the same to guys who come into her work who are doing modifications. She works at California DMV and she says the scales at the dump are very accurate.

Oh yes, that's just down the street from me! Fantastic, thank you VERY much for this! I never would have considered it. I was ready to take a 200 mile round trip. Thank you!!