Debbit Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 I am sensitive to odors. Our Sunrader has some. I've read a lot of posts here about possible causes; vent, joints in vents, dried out p traps. My toy has the potential for all of the above. I try something, and think it is better, then it isn't. ? I've about decided to eliminate (no pun intended) the toilet and thus, the black water tank. I will use the shower and bathroom sink and the tank will essentially be grey water. Legal to release. I've decided I hate hauling around a cess pool tank anyway. Once the toilet is out, the hole in the floor will be covered by a plexiglass panel or nylon cutting board silicones down and a nice self contained porta potty. We did this on the dolphin, and it worked well, so I'm sure we will prefer it with the sunrader too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 You will still have a grey tank. You wash dishes and food goes into it and rots. It can also smell from the roof vents and sometimes from a bad seal between the pipes and the tank. I made the mistake of trying to rinse mine out at home when I had forgotten to empty it for a long time. I figured it was OK to drain onto the ground cause it was just grey water. OMG my neighbors were pissed. Reeked big time. I use this in my toilet. Bacteria brakes down the poop and really doesn't smell at all. Darn I can't post a link anymore It's called Unique Digest it holding tank treatment. Yes I now put it in the grey tank too There are also roof vents that pull the smells away when driving or any wind search Camco cyclone plumbing vent to see what I mean. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted October 30, 2014 Author Share Posted October 30, 2014 I'll try to find it, and give it a try. We live on a large lot in a desert subdivision. Sandy soil and not close neighbors. Forest service says it's ok to discharge grey water. Porta potties are so easy to dump in vault toilets at campgrounds. Most of the places we go don't have RV dumps, and I hate traveling with full tanks. This is why I'm thinking of removing toilet and going to porta pot. I don't know if I'm smelling black water venting, old overflow or black water into wood or what. Ugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Ace Hardware carries the Unique plumbing stuff called Super digest it. I buy that too and I think it's almost the same stuff. Give it sometime to let the bacteria colonize your tank. I do use bleach to rinse my fresh water tank and that goes through the grey tank but I never rinse the black tank with bleach. Need to keep the bacteria alive and digesting. I am sensitive to smells too and have allergies. I could never use the overly fragranced waste tank stuff Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
passman Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 We switched over to a porta potty about mid-summer and couldn’t be happier. I haven’t removed the tank yet (next summer job when we beef up the frame extenders) we just used a pipe plug to seal the “hole” and set the porta potty on top of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 The smell is coming from your shower drain in the floor as its air is drawn upward by negative air pressure of the vehicle in motion (usually roof vents open or open windows will exacerbate this effect. stopping the storage of excrement will help, but knowing how the smells come to be will also help. I for one don't even think the shower drain is trapped;I think it dumps straight to tank. Trapping this drain would help if possible, by blocking the airflow of gases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Mine is the same year as Debbit's and my shower drain doesn't smell at all. If there was no trap it would stink like holy hell all the time. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This helps maintain a negitive pressure in your holding tanks. No moving parts. http://360productsinc.com/site/home Driving with an open window is a major no/no. I know we all do it, but it makes for low pressure in the RV and it will suck in all the smells from your tanks if there is the slightest leak and dust from the outside. The extracter vent caps (both kinds) may may enough negitive pressure in thr tank to overcome the open window. The Camco vents work great on my current RV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 Thanks WME, I know the pressure difference for a fact will make the stink. does anyone have a photo of a tear down to prove that theres a trap? My stinky shower stall says otherwise but only if roof vents/windows are open in motion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 This is a rear bath since it drains into the grey tank but he did find a trap for the shower. Well I still can't post a link but search" 89 Sunrader shower drain problem" on this site and you will find it. Can't imagine them putting a trap to the grey tank but not to the black on the middle bath models. Page 11 of the Sunrader manual on this site says for winter storage to fill the P traps for the sink and the shower with rv antifreeze. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 perhaps the negative pressure makes it bubble like a beer carboy bubbler. I guess I am not seeing how the smell is escaping the "pooh" cutter por ball valve in the toilet. I am however, thinking that a grey tank can stink just like pooh or worse and would explain it when moving with negative pressure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted November 2, 2014 Author Share Posted November 2, 2014 So much helpful information! We just got back from camping, and with water in tanks, no smell. So odd. We used the toilet some, but not a lot. Grey water and black, inside smelled fine. I'm thinking the p traps? Also, found my husband had left the valve open to air out the tanks. Maybe not a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) We have both an 87 & 88 Dolphins (both models 900). Yep, they may be a little different than your Sunrader. Our Dolphins do have pee traps in the kitchen, bathroom sinks and on the shower drains. The toilets are standard with knife valve flushes and a separate vent for the black water and grey water tanks. The ONLY time we have ever experienced funky odors, is when on a long extended cruise and been a little careless (our fault) and failed to dump the tanks during the trips. We use a Bio-Active black water liquid chemical (NOT the dark blue formaldahide product) and regular grey water conditioner. My suggestion for you is simply BEFORE the funky black water begins to smell (be it once a week or every two weeks) DUMP YOUR HOLDING TANKS at the RV dump site and start with new fresh chemicals for Pete's sake! Having a 'fully self contained system' doesn't mean 'FOREVER fully self contained'!! We also have a small 500 s.f. cabin where we use a Port-a-Potty. There finally comes a certain time, where after the potty gets used, 'wheeeeew' that baby smells up the whole cabin (let alone a small motorhome) and we know it has become past due to dump the potty. Again, knowing the correct frequency of dumping your waste is the key to comfortable living. No poop ever lasts forever! Finally, my recommendation for you is DO NOT ruin your Sunrader by removing the toilet and black water tank, if the ONLY reason you have is for odor control. P.S. Like you, we too are also very sensitive to bad smells. ~Riverman77 Edited November 4, 2014 by Riverman77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted November 4, 2014 Author Share Posted November 4, 2014 We do dump and rinse our tanks very often! The odor is the worst when they are empty, and I'm beginning to wonder if it is something other than the tanks. Like some stinky carpet behind or under the fiberglass bathroom. Or a vent leak. I have decided it would be too bad to remove the toilet though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 We do dump and rinse our tanks very often! The odor is the worst when they are empty, and I'm beginning to wonder if it is something other than the tanks. Like some stinky carpet behind or under the fiberglass bathroom. Or a vent leak. I have decided it would be too bad to remove the toilet though. I'm glad that you chimed in with that last comment. It now puts a whole new perspective on where your toilet smells could be coming from. It may be possible that your toilet to floor seal has failed in some way. Or maybe the (plastic) toilet it self has developed a crack somewhere in it. If either is the case, perhaps some waste has worked its way into the flooring or the carpeting. If it were me, I would pull the toilet and give it and your flooring a real close inspection and yes, I do mean get right down there with your nose. With any luck, perhaps you'll easily determine the problem by seeing a very obviously broken toilet to floor seal or something. Good luck and please be sure to report back to us on what you find. ~Riverman77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted November 14, 2014 Author Share Posted November 14, 2014 Still sniffing. I believe the smell isn't waste water tanks. Maybe a little critter decaying somewhere behind something. I've taken as much apart as I care to, and lots of rodent feces in batt insulation. Probably will pull out what insulation I can get to, vac and disinfect and just wait for it to go away. Ewww. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Still sniffing. I believe the smell isn't waste water tanks. Maybe a little critter decaying somewhere behind something. I've taken as much apart as I care to, and lots of rodent feces in batt insulation. Probably will pull out what insulation I can get to, vac and disinfect and just wait for it to go away. Ewww. Oh yes, I know that smell also. A decaying critter has its own special foul smelling scent. Unfortunately, that type of smell will not go away until you find it, get rid of the carcus and disinfect the area that he died at. ~Riverman77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 I had tons of dead rodents in my Nissan Sunrader that I rescued from a field. You might want to replace the furnace ducting too. They chewed into it on mine and there was crap in every one. Remove the drawers in the closet and under the stove and shop vac down there too. I also removed all the batting but I did replace it with reflectix. The solid sheets were easy to pull through the rear area Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Do it the easy way, let a dog locate it for you. Our dog is always sniffing out rats and mice. They live for that kind of adventure. The funkier the smell the better they seem to like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 I thought I'd post that I think I've found the source of the smell. The cab over window leaks a bit. Over time the foam that was under the vinyl upholstery fabric under those windows had become soaked and smelly. You couldn't really see or feel any moisture from outside, but when I pulled it up, there was actually water puddled under there. The fiberglass forms a trough and the vinyl covered it, so it wasn't very visable, but when we pulled the material out, the foam and fabric back of the vinyl was soaked......and smelly. I don't know if the upper bunk cushions got wet, but they are out airing, and I'll check them out later. But with everything out, it smells wonderful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Before you mess with your windows, unscrew and reseal your clearance lights with butyl tape. Easy job and might be where the water is coming from. If it is the windows you will need new locking gasket to use on the windows. Difficult job but I have replaced Sunrader windows by myself. Unfortunately for me I did not bother to build a proper scaffold to do the work and I dropped and broke one of the windows. So take the time and make a scaffold first. You have a husband to help. Will be much easier Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'm sure it is the lights. Some of the vinyl is wet above the windows. The windows are due for some work as both are cracked, one bubbles out and one caves in. But they don't seem to be leaking. We also have a leak in the back where a marker light is.The windows replacement is for another time, maybe a trip up to CA wine country is on the calendar when we can afford to replace them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Good. Like I said lights are easy. Glad you found the bad smell source before any real damage was done Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I'm sure it is the lights. Some od the vinyl is wet above the windows. The windows are due for some work as both are cracked, one bubbles out and one caves in. But they don't seem to be leaking. We also have a leak in the back where a marker light is. The windows replacement is for another time, maybe a trip up to CA wine country is on the calendar when we can afford to replace them. I had wet vinyl in the area above my overcab windows. It did not come from the window leaking. It also did not come from marker lights as my Sunrader does not have any since it was built before that era. What it did come from is a very small crack in the fiberglass roof right dead center where the main coach roof transitions down to the overcab roof. There is a slight V shape at that transition point and the crack happened on the center line of that V towards the bottom of the V. As there was no insulation foam on the underside of the roof at that point I sealed the crack and then added spray foam insulation under it. Leak issue solved with minimum time and materials. The previous owner had put a patch of roofing compound on but that did not stop the leak. He was not very good with things like caulking and sealing Turned my partner on this month to the wonders of Captain Tolleys Creeping Crack Cure. There was a leak in the boat that he thought was from a window but turned out to be from a fastener thru hole in either the handrail or the sail track that are above the window. Whichever void it was that leak is now history. It took 4 applications of the liquid to get the job done but this stuff really does find its way into small voids and fill them up. Needing multiple applications over a few days is not unusual as it is watery thin and you have to build up the layers to fill some of the slightly larger cracks. It might seem expensive to purchase but removing and then re bedding pieces is expensive and time consuming too so if the void is not obvious this stuff is worth a try to fix minor leaks. Fortunately there is a West Marine store next door to us where we can purchase it. http://www.westmarine.com/buy/captain-tolleys--crack-cure-sealant-2-oz--243990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted January 24, 2015 Author Share Posted January 24, 2015 Thanks for all the good info, we are looking for screws that protrude, cracks and leaky windows. I suspect the lights because the water is mainly below a couple of them and there are 3 places this is happening, all close to lights. We don't get a lot of rain in NM so its kind of tricky to find leaks when we so seldome see rain. I suppose we will resort to the hose to locate possible leaks after sealing all the lights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I thought I'd post that I think I've found the source of the smell. The cab over window leaks a bit. Over time the foam that was under the vinyl upholstery fabric under those windows had become soaked and smelly. You couldn't really see or feel any moisture from outside, but when I pulled it up, there was actually water puddled under there. The fiberglass forms a trough and the vinyl covered it, so it wasn't very visable, but when we pulled the material out, the foam and fabric back of the vinyl was soaked......and smelly. I don't know if the upper bunk cushions got wet, but they are out airing, and I'll check them out later. But with everything out, it smells wonderful! Mine stunk to high heaven from all the mildew growing in the foam and on the backside of the vinyl. To replace the old foam I got new closed cell Landau Foam from Seattle Fabrics. Closed cell foam does not absorb moisture unlike the original foam that was used in the Sunraders. The term Landau (the keyword along with "closed cell" you will need to find this stuff) has to do with this being the type of foam used to for padding under the vinyl topped roofs on automobiles. It is also used as padding under vinyl on the insides of car doors and such. You can likely find some locally in California as there are lots of car restoration shops there. Spray adhesive such as Super 77 or brush on contact cement works for installation. Use the quick drying kinds of adhesive with solvent as vinyl, fiberglass and closed cell foam are not absorbent surfaces. Water based adhesives need at least one absorbent surface to allow for drying so therefore they don't work for this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yep, stinky! I'm glad to know about the landau foam. We were thinking of different things to replace the foam and vinyl with. Although it's not something I wanted to tackle, I'm so relieved to have found and gotten rid of the smell. I'm also glad I'm dealing with fiberglass. I was impressed to see little puddles, but no rotting wood at the source of an old leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snail powered Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Yep, stinky! I'm glad to know about the landau foam. We were thinking of different things to replace the foam and vinyl with. Although it's not something I wanted to tackle, I'm so relieved to have found and gotten rid of the smell. I'm also glad I'm dealing with fiberglass. I was impressed to see little puddles, but no rotting wood at the source of an old leak. Debbit, before you start replacing materials you might consider drilling a small drain hole on each side of the bottom of the overcab area at the low spot just before it transitions up to the board for the bed. That is what I have done with mine. Two small weeps hole that will prevent accumulation of water in puddles should another leak happen. An 1/8th or 3/16th inch drill will do just fine. Not big enough for wasp to get in but just large enough for water to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think I would rather find the leak quickly than do anything to make it less noticeable. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riverman77 Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 I am pleased that you found the 'real' problem of foul smells and are now underway with making the repairs. Just imagine if you had pulled out the toilet and holding tanks (as originally planned), only to discover this small leak? Thanks for updating us...I love hearing follow up success stories! ~Riverman77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted January 26, 2015 Author Share Posted January 26, 2015 I'm glad too!! I have to replace, already tore the stinky foam and vinyl fabric out. it's not much square footage though, and the over the cab 'bedroom" was next on my list anyway. I honed in on the smell when I got up there to take down the curtains and started sniffing around. weep holes are good for windows, but I think we will try to find and fix the leak. I don't know why it didn't smell bad when we were sleeping up there. maybe the bedding? who knows. but the spare bedroom where the upper bunk mattress is awaiting attention has a faintly, yet distinctly funky odor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 Take the cover off the foam mattress and wash it at in a big washer at a laundry mat. They wash nicely. Dry till slightly damp in dryer and then lay it out over some patio chairs to dry the rest of the way. All of my cushion covers have been washed in both of my Sunraders and they all came out fine. My Nissan cushions were so dirty and moldy I thought they were history but they came out beautiful. Oxyclean will get rid of any mold and smells. If your having some warm dry days there, Oxyclean solution sprayed on the foam will freshen that up too. Again lay over some patio chairs and let dry a couple of hours then turn over and do again. UV from the sun works with it to help the disinfecting process Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debbit Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 I've washed the dinette cushion covers, but yikes....how hard is it to stuff that "U" shape cushion back in its cover? Then the little piece with the board attached doesn't come off, I don't think. I was thinking upholstery shampoo. But I do need to take the covers off, In case the foam is involved....I don't like that mattress anyway. the pieces don't stay together very well and even through a memory foam topper, I can feel the "crack" when it shifts apart.I'm tempted to put a board and a new, fresh, one piece foam mattress up there. But probably I'll shampoo and/or wash the covers of the old one and rig some Velcro on the bottom side to hold them to each other.Oxyclean, good idea! And we have plenty of hot sunny days here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I always wonder if using an electric bread knife could help cut a custom cut replacement mattress out of a too big queen standard but would be too scared to cut said investment... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I didn't have a choice with my Nissan. It was wash them or throw it all away. It wasn't that hard to get the foam back in the cover for the overhead. The zipper opens it up almost all the way. Just took some wiggling. And lifting and shaking so the foam could expand into the whole area. I removed the cover from the board part and re-stapled it on afterward. Really wasn't that hard. Saved all the parts and replaced them exactly where they were. I did add an extra thin piece of foam in that middle section. Filled the gap that had developed. Oh and I reinstalled the fabric on the bottom of that board section with decorative upholstery tacks so it looks nice. You could just use staples and glue on some trim though Linda S Truth is I'm just too cheap to buy new stuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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