Have you removed your clearance lights? Have you been busted for non-working or total removal of your clearance lights?

[linda s]

LINDA I WONDER IF THOSE SMALLER ONES WERE EXEMPT FROM SOME OF THE LIGHT REGS AS THEY WERE SHORTER AND LOWER . I KNOW WHERE WE HAVE SIDE LIGHTS FRONT AND REAR I SEE THAT THE BIG CLASS A TYPES HAVE A CENTER SIDE MARKER MY FRIEND HAS A LARGE NATIONAL RV SEA VIEW CLASS A LIKE THAT. BUT IN THAT PICTURE YOU POST IT DOES HAVE SIDE MARKER LIGHTS ON THE FRONT FENDER AND ON THE LOWER LEFT REAR SIDE A RED REAR SIDE LIGHT

They are the same width and height as my 86 which has clearance lights. The lights on the fender in the front are Toyota lights from that year, not clearance lights. So yes it has 2 clearance lights on the back on each side, that's it. Makes no sense to me.

Linda S

[Stevo]

I hear ya but are you including the side mirror to side mirror OD when you say over 80" in width? If so, lots of vehicles are over 80" wide that aren't required to have clearance lights, like full size pickups and vans. I have a full size 1/2 ton Dodge van thats about 93" from side mirror to side mirror OD.

The issue you are missing is clearance lights provide information to other drivers that your vehicle is over 80" in width. My thinking is you are increasing THEIR safety.

I installed Superbright LED clearance lights that are visable in daylight hours as well as high output LED parking lights that act as Daytime Running Lights. I spend a lot of time on narrow mountain roads and feel it is only fair to let other drivers know in advance of my over 80" width.

[shim 'n bucket]

I hear ya but are you including the side mirror to side mirror OD when you say over 80" in width? If so, lots of vehicles are over 80" wide that aren't required to have clearance lights, like full size pickups and vans. I have a full size 1/2 ton Dodge van thats about 93" from side mirror to side mirror OD.

This is the Federal Reg concerning the definition of "width".

"

Footnote—15

(1) For the purposes of Section 393.11, the term “overall width” refers to the nominal design dimension of the widest part of the vehicle, exclusive of the signal lamps, marker lamps, outside rearview mirrors, flexible fender extensions, and mud flaps.

"

From:

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=393.11

Apparently there has been some misinformation posted above about what defines "width".

Width includes only the motorhome portion of the vehicle, NOT including mirrors.

[Vanman]

My 1971 Dodge B-200 Tradesman van had side marker lamps. Don't know what it's width was, but I am sure it wasn't near as wide as the Toyhome.

[Maineah]

Last time I measured the inside walls of my Toy home they were 7'4" that to me is 88" inside so add maybe another 3" of walls that makes it kind of wide.

[Derek up North]

I think (from memory) that Dolphins/Seabreezes are listed as 80" (inside)/84" (outside). Odysseys a couple of inches more, Sunraders a couple less.

Edit:

So much for the memory.

Dolphin 500 (1988) - 83" (Outside)

Sunrader (1985) - 84" (Outside)

Odyssey - 86.5" (INSIDE)

[sdboltdude]

brother said the # of running light will tell if your a rig///rv///trailer etc.

not sure how many or how many class(# of lights) they have....

[Derek up North]

The only thing I've ever seen is 5 lights , front and rear. 3 closely spaced in the center and one on each edge. Don't recall any other variations.

[sdboltdude]

l might of misunderstood what bro was saying looks like its about width... your prob right Derek

here is a link with good info http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/standards/conspicuity/trlrpstr.html

The only thing I've ever seen is 5 lights , front and rear. 3 closely spaced in the center and one on each edge. Don't recall any other variations.

[Derek up North]

Thanks for the link. Learn something every day. It seems that at the rear, the outer lights are technically called the 'clearance lamps', the inner 3 are 'identification lamps'. Of interest, it seems that the FRONT only requires the 2 outer 'clearance lamps' and not 5.

All this assuming that the same rules apply to a MH as a 'trailer'.

EDIT:

Never assume!

http://icsw.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/standards/conspicuity/TBMpstr.html

[sdboltdude]

Thanks for the link. Learn something every day. It seems that at the rear, the outer lights are technically called the 'clearance lamps', the inner 3 are 'identification lamps'. Of interest, it seems that the FRONT only requires the 2 outer 'clearance lamps' and not 5.

All this assuming that the same rules apply to a MH as a 'trailer'.

glad you liked it ....Google is great!

[sdboltdude]

Thanks for the link. Learn something every day. It seems that at the rear, the outer lights are technically called the 'clearance lamps', the inner 3 are 'identification lamps'. Of interest, it seems that the FRONT only requires the 2 outer 'clearance lamps' and not 5.

All this assuming that the same rules apply to a MH as a 'trailer'.

That's what my bro was telling me what the inner lights and the outer lights are/called......

[linda s]

I think (from memory) that Dolphins/Seabreezes are listed as 80" (inside)/84" (outside). Odysseys a couple of inches more, Sunraders a couple less.

Edit:

So much for the memory.

Dolphin 500 (1988) - 83" (Outside)

Sunrader (1985) - 84" (Outside)

Odyssey - 86.5" (INSIDE)

The widest section of my 1986 Sunrader outside including screw cover trim is 81 1/4 inches. If I removed the trim I could get it down to 80 1/2.

Linda S

[Derek up North]

Could well be. I'm just quoting the number Sunrader published in their 1985 brochure.

[linda s]

Could well be. I'm just quoting the number Sunrader published in their 1985 brochure.

That would include the mirrors. Not coach only. I was always told side mirrors were included in the over 80 requirement for clearance lights but now I have no clue.

Linda S

[Derek up North]

Odd. I don't think the others include the mirrors in their measurements. A typical number given is 80" inside, 84" outside.

Maybe we should all rush and install clearance lights on our mirrors!

[Vanman]

One of the first thing I did when we got our Dolphin was to mark the outside edges of all the side mirrors with striped red/white reflector tape, ( ACE Hardware ). There is a store on Irving that has a great collection of sparkley light reflecting stickers in different designs that I've added to the sides and back, ie hinges on all the access doors on both sides. Did the same thing on my boat / trailer when we had that. I got the idea when I was working downtown and the side mirrors on our company trucks had a short life, kept getting hit when parked. One day I striped both outer edges of my aerostar with white and yellow electrical tape,( the plastic housing in gloss black) and VOILA, no more collisions. Soon all the guys were doing this, BIG improvment!! Didn't help with all the other parking bumps/collisions but they'll give a drivers liscense to anybody/anything is this state so what ya gonna do???

[linda s]

If I don't drive at night maybe I could get away with fake paste on lights

Karin you have clearance lights? I have never seen an older Sunrader with the larger front window that has any more than the one I posted a picture of. Just side lights. Where are yours

Linda s

[Derek up North]

If it was built with none and has been driven with none, I'd add none. Maybe the requirement for them came into effect after it was built. If that's the case, you don't have to retrofit them.

[sdboltdude]

perfectly said Derek

If it was built with none and has been driven with none, I'd add none. the requirement for them came into effect after it was built. If that's the case, you don't have to retrofit them.

my old running lights bulbs would shake loose was afraid might get pulled over ...If so I would show officer that they where shorting out.....
now have m9 led up front and in the back...

[Derek up North]

Is your Sunrader a recent arrival in Washington?

[linda s]

Why would you do that. It didn't come with them and I have never heard of a state retroactively requireing extra lights on a 30 year old motorhome. I have seen an awful lot of older Sunraders and spoken to many owners and no one has ever gotten a ticket for something their motorhome wasn't built with. Since they were built in California and we have the same laws, clearance light laws are federal, How were any of them legaly sold in the first place. I've have seen many motorhomes built after 1970 that had no provision for clearance lights. Don't open a door of headaches if you don't have to.

Linda S

[sdboltdude]

Karin

you could call your dmv and ask them about your running lights

hopefully you wont get the dmv runaround ......

[linda s]

I would just not bring it up. Apparently Motor vehicle departments across the country have been ignoring those old Sunraders for 30 plus years. I have never seen one with added clearance lights but plenty still on the road.

Linda S

[Derek up North]

I'd run it through an inspection without lights before you button up the ceiling in case they force you to add them. And design the ceiling so if in the future you have to add them the whole ceiling doesn't have to come down.

[linda s]

Ya know I mentioned in an earlier post about someone who removed his clearance lights from his later model Sunrader. Just looked back at old emails and he lives in Washington. He did a really good job and you can't tell they were ever there but he didn't have any trouble registering his rig

Linda s

[linda s]

Washington State does not do safety equipment inspections. The only inspection needed for registration is looking at the VIN number plate and that is a one time inspection when bringing a vehicle into the state or when registering a home built project.

Which of course explains how I could have a rig that does not have required lights even though it was previously registered in another state. It also explains why the guy you are talking about who removed his lights could get his registration renewed without the lights being there.

But I can still get busted for not having the proper safety equipment

No you can not. Your vehicle has not been altered. It is factory original and was legal to sell in America when it was built. . If your original lights work you are fine. Out of all the Sunraders like yours on the road all these years why do you think they would single you out.

Linda S

[Maineah]

If it came with them it has to have them does not matter that some one else removed them if they didn't the burden .of proof is on the owner. DOT is Federal 50 state they are the ones that make the rules. I kind of remember them being called IC clearance lights (interstate commerce). The likely hood of being stopped in a little old MH is probably pretty slim but I guess they can. The cost of a set of new LED's is going to be less then any ticket so why not just bite the bullet frankly you and others will be safer.

[RHS]

An interesting discussion. I used to have '80 Sunrader as Linda no lights sold it back into California no problem. My current concern - I took a Sunrader off '77 chassis (no lights of course) put on '86 chassis. I don't really want to do some thing to front windows to mount lights. Will be selling soon. What should I do?

[linda s]

An interesting discussion. I used to have '80 Sunrader as Linda no lights sold it back into California no problem. My current concern - I took a Sunrader off '77 chassis (no lights of course) put on '86 chassis. I don't really want to do some thing to front windows to mount lights. Will be selling soon. What should I do?

I would recommend that you do nothing. Clearance lights are determined by the camper section and that is from 77 and had no lights. If it's legal to still drive a 77 today on a 77 chassis it shouldn't matter what chassis you put it on. Post some pics. I would love to see it

Linda S

[Derek up North]

I would recommend that you do nothing. Clearance lights are determined by the camper section and that is from 77 and had no lights. If it's legal to still drive a 77 today on a 77 chassis it shouldn't matter what chassis you put it on. Post some pics. I would love to see it

Linda S

You might end up trying to argue that in front of a judge if you don't win that argument with the cop.

[linda s]

You might end up trying to argue that in front of a judge if you don't win that argument with the cop.

Assuming any cops cared. Drove my Nissan all across the country with some of the lights completely missing and none of them working. No one paid any attention. I do think a 77 is slightly narrower than the newer ones. He should measure the distance across the back. Bet it's under limit

Linda S

[Sunrading Arkansas]

I went with WME's suggestion - clearance reflectors. No inspections in the hillbilly state....we'll see i guess.

Definately visible at night.

[Sunrading Arkansas]

Just to update: got back from an 8000mi. trip out west, never once got hassled about my setup. And we did a lot of night driving. So far so good!

[Stevo]

Good to know. I pulled out all the clearance lights on mine and filled in the holes with body filler and will be replacing them with reflectors too.