Nissan/Datsun versus Toyota

[zero]

I was just looking at the specs on this Nissan-Mirage. Unlike the Toyotas I've seen, this one came with a 5 speed instead of a 4 speed . I've seen Nissans with V6s and 5 speeds in RVs but this one is a four cylinder. I wonder why 5 speeds were not used in most if not all the four cylinder Toyotas?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-1985-Nissan-Mirage-Motorhome-RV-/190790061529?pt=RVs_Campers&hash=item2c6bf94dd9

[linda s]

If you could see the rear axle you would also notice that this cutie has a full floater. Nissan had them available in 1984 instead of 1986 like Toyota.

Linda S

[zero]

If you could see the rear axle you would also notice that this cutie has a full floater. Nissan had them available in 1984 instead of 1986 like Toyota.

Linda S

Yes, looks like a nice rig. Nissan has been making small FF rears for a long time for other small cab-over trucks from other companies. I don't know what Nissan offered in the way of truck-cab-and-frame deals like Toyota did to RV makers. I wonder if the bare cab & chassis deals from Nissan came standard with 5 speeds and FFs? If so, I kind of wonder why Toyota did not? Toyota was making full-floaters in the 70s for stuff overseas.

[Derek up North]

Did the Datsun/Nissan with the FF ever come with matching wheels, front and rear?

[zero]

On cab-over trucks they all have matching wheels front and back. Usually 16" on the cab-overs. Don't know about the RVs. Nissan has their own cab-overs that have been around in the USA for over 30 years. Nissan UD. There are other makes of small cab-over trucks that also use the Nissan FF rear axles. The Nissan UD name is kind of funny. Went the same route as BP when it comes to name-changing. British Petroleum (BP) now calls them self "Beyond Petroleum" or whatever. Nissan UD was "Uniflow Diesel" which was a two-stroke engine. Then went to "Utopia Diesel" , "Ultimate Diesel" and maybe a few other things. Still beats what International Harvester did when they changed their name to "Navigating the Stars." That got dropped el-quicko and changed to "Navistar."

Toyota got caught with their "pants down" with the RV law-suit deal and I guess was forced to custom-make parts to make those odd-ball, 1940s bolt-pattern, 6-lug wheels fit front and back. Seems maybe Nissan didn't make the same mistake? Don't really know; I'm not an authority on Nissan RV history. I was however, a huge fan of Datsun. Every bit as good as Toyota and better at times. I kind of miss the "dogs like trucks" commericals.

[linda s]

Did the Datsun/Nissan with the FF ever come with matching wheels, front and rear?

No different front wheels and lug pattern. 6x 5.5 on the front and 6x 6.5 on the back

Linda S

[Gulfstream Greg]

5th gear in the toyotas is overdrive while in 4th gear.

[Derek up North]

No different front wheels and lug pattern. 6x 5.5 on the front and 6x 6.5 on the back

Linda S

Most inconvenient. Just like the '86 and earlier Toyota.

[linda s]

I actually have a factory brochure for my Nissan Sunrader. Truck brochure not the camper. Here's a simple reason the Nissan used the 5 speed much more than Toyota did. On the 5 speed tranny cab and chassis the rear axle ratio was 4.625. A much lower ratio than was available on the Toyota cab and chassis so you could actually use 5th gear. 5 speed was the standard package but the auto option was a 4 speed automatic with locking torque converter and a 4.375 rear axle ratio. Damn I didn't even know I had locking torque converter.

Linda S

[zero]

5th gear in the toyotas is overdrive while in 4th gear.

No it's not. Overdrive is when the output of the trans turns less then the input. The only four speed manual trans I know of used in the USA is the New Process NP833 used in GM and Dodge 1/2 ton trucks.

[zero]

I actually have a factory brochure for my Nissan Sunrader. Truck brochure not the camper. Here's a simple reason the Nissan used the 5 speed much more than Toyota did. On the 5 speed tranny cab and chassis the rear axle ratio was 4.625. A much lower ratio than was available on the Toyota cab and chassis so you could actually use 5th gear. 5 speed was the standard package but the auto option was a 4 speed automatic with locking torque converter and a 4.375 rear axle ratio. Damn I didn't even know I had locking torque converter.

Linda S

The Sunrader Nissan with 5 speed also has a V6 (at least in my brochure). More power to run at less RPM via OD. With the fixed high roof and wind resistance though - as you pointed out - the 4.6 rear I assume makes it a lot more driveable.

[Derek up North]

No mention of what axle ratio was delivered in the Dolphin/Nissan brochure for '84.

[zero]

I actually have a factory brochure for my Nissan Sunrader. Truck brochure not the camper. Here's a simple reason the Nissan used the 5 speed much more than Toyota did. On the 5 speed tranny cab and chassis the rear axle ratio was 4.625. A much lower ratio than was available on the Toyota cab and chassis so you could actually use 5th gear. 5 speed was the standard package but the auto option was a 4 speed automatic with locking torque converter and a 4.375 rear axle ratio. Damn I didn't even know I had locking torque converter.

Linda S

Lock up, in effect, gives a 5th gear. Seems you ought to feel it unless it never kicks in.

[Derek up North]

I've had vehicle where the 'lock up' is so smooth at the only way I could detect it would be by watching the tach needle. I've no experience with the Nissan.

[MontanaChinook]

My chinook has a 5 speed, which it seems like is a rarity, on an already rare vehicle. I assumed all the 78 Newport/Omegas would be 5 speed, but every one I've seen come up for sale lately is a 4 speed. Luckily, on my chinook, 5th gear is very useable.

[zero]

My chinook has a 5 speed, which it seems like is a rarity, on an already rare vehicle. I assumed all the 78 Newport/Omegas would be 5 speed, but every one I've seen come up for sale lately is a 4 speed. Luckily, on my chinook, 5th gear is very useable.

I just put a 5 speed in my Chinook but haven't driven it yet. That won't happen until the snow melts and the salt is off the roads (salt is a big Toyota killer).

According to the Chinook literature - the 5 speed was never offered when the Chinooks were sold new and I'm pretty sure 1978 is the last year. I don't have any factory specs on the Newports and Omegas.

[MontanaChinook]

There was a 2wd 5 speed tranny available in 78 (W50?), but I have no way of knowing if the chinooks came with them, or if somebody swapped this one in....

[linda s]

My v6 Nissan automatic has of course the switch to turn off overdrive but it also changes the shift points when you do that ,like the Toyota ECT button. On mine it's not extra it's all connected together. Looks like the 84 and 85 might have the 4.375 gear ratio in the c200 rear end. 84 was the first year of the full floater for Nissan but in 86.5 they went to the huge rear diff that I have with a 233mm ring gear.

Linda S

[5Toyota]

dont know about any chinooks but i did have a 1978 short bed sr 5 WITH A W 50 five speed back in those days 5 speeds were often optional items in the trucks and cars my 1978 minimax was the L 43 four speed.THAT SAME W 50 WAS USED IN THE TRUCK ,CORONA AND CELICA.OPTIONAL

[5Toyota]

M C CHECK THE PLATE INFO ON THE FIREWALL IF IT DOSENT SAY W 50 THEN SOMBODY WOULD OF PUT IT IN .THE TRANS NUMBERS ARE ON THE INFO PLATES L 43 IS THE FOUR SPEED

[zero]

My v6 Nissan automatic has of course the switch to turn off overdrive but it also changes the shift points when you do that ,like the Toyota ECT button. On mine it's not extra it's all connected together. Looks like the 84 and 85 might have the 4.375 gear ratio in the c200 rear end. 84 was the first year of the full floater for Nissan but in 86.5 they went to the huge rear diff that I have with a 233mm ring gear.

Linda S

233 mm isn't huge by truck standards. Most run-of-the-mill 3/4 ton pickup trucks have 241 mm to 267 mm rear axles. My 1994 Ford F250 and 1992 Dodge W200 both have 267 mm rears. My 87 Chevy Suburban has a 241 mm rear. Nissan has an H260 full-floater that is 260 mm and came in the rear of Nissan Patrol SUVs. Same SUV had the 233 mm in front.

[linda s]

Aren't you comparing apples to oranges. Giant v8 trucks compared to a bitty 3.0 v6. That h260 was never imported to the USA

Linda S

[zero]

Aren't you comparing apples to oranges. Giant v8 trucks compared to a bitty 3.0 v6. That h260 was never imported to the USA

Linda S

Not "apples to oranges" from my perspective. The size of the rear axle and transmissions in US trucks relates to gross-vehicle-weight - not cubic inches, horsepower, or torque. A 3/4 ton Ford F250 weighs around 4500 lbs. empty and has a payload capacity around 1500-2000 lbs. Some 3/4 ton Chevy trucks weigh 4100 lbs. empty and some Dodged 3/4 tons trucks weigh 3800 lbs. empty . Standard engine for the Ford is a six cylinder with 150 horsepower. At 6000 lbs. a 21 foot Toyota motorhome is in a similar weight class.

[linda s]

I have only seen a handful of 21ft motorhomes built on the Nissan v6 chassis. 3 or 4 Four Seasons and the same number of Odyssey's. There are about 8 Sunrader like mine but all are the small 18ft model. Still think it's impressive that I have a diff bigger than most f150's. Have heavier deeper dish duallies too. Can fit a 205 tire cause that's what was on it when I bought it and there was room to spare. The whole rig sits higher too. About 2 to 3 inches more clearance underneath making your tanks safer in rough terrain. My Nissan weighs 5000 lbs with water and gas.
Linda S

[MontanaChinook]

In case any of you were dying to know...

I finally got around to changing my oil, and actually looking closely at my engine compartment. I noticed that the tag says "L43". So yeah, somebody swapped in a 5 speed. I pulled out the seats and carpet, and found this. Pretty nice!

The old "peel back the floor sheet metal and cover the old hole with an old license plate" method. I like it.

The good news is that I have a 5 speed. Bad news is that I know nothing about the mileage. But it shifts smooth, and it's nice and quiet, so I won't worry about it.

[Maineah]

Not "apples to oranges" from my perspective. The size of the rear axle and transmissions in US trucks relates to gross-vehicle-weight - not cubic inches, horsepower, or torque. A 3/4 ton Ford F250 weighs around 4500 lbs. empty and has a payload capacity around 1500-2000 lbs. Some 3/4 ton Chevy trucks weigh 4100 lbs. empty and some Dodged 3/4 tons trucks weigh 3800 lbs. empty . Standard engine for the Ford is a six cylinder with 150 horsepower. At 6000 lbs. a 21 foot Toyota motorhome is in a similar weight class.

?? my 2011 Tacoma's curb weight is close to 4,300# and it has a plastic bed! I think you'll find a 4 door full size to be real close to 6,000# empty.

[zero]

?? my 2011 Tacoma's curb weight is close to 4,300# and it has a plastic bed! I think you'll find a 4 door full size to be real close to 6,000# empty.

A 2000 Ford F250 Crew-cab F250 with 152" wheelbase, V8 and 2WD weighs 5,215 lbs. The same in 4WD version weighs 5,730 lbs.

2000 Ford F250 Super Cap with 155" wheelbase and V8 and 2WD weighs 4,910 lbs. With 4WD it weighs 5,330 lbs.

2000 Ford F250 standard cab, V6 and 2WD weighs 4300 lbs. With 4WD it weighs 4,690 lbs.

2000 Chevy 3/4 ton standard cab, 5.3 V8 4WD and 133" wheelbase weighs 4365 lbs.

2000 Chevy 3/4 ton extended cab, 5.3 V8 4WD and 143.5" wheelbase weighs 4621 lbs.

[linda s]

trade ya, lol

Well at one time I thought I was going to trade up to a Tiger Provan. Not. The thought of getting rid of one of my Sunraders made me feel sick. I get so attached. Tiger is getting sold soon and the Nissan Sunrader will be stored at my daughters in Eureka,Ca for northern trips. Baby, the Toyota stays here in San Jose with me. Price on these things has gone up so much keeping them is a better investment than gold. There's an 86 for sale somewhere back east for 12 grand. Crazy

Linda S

[zero]

Baby, the Toyota stays here in San Jose with me. Price on these things has gone up so much keeping them is a better investment than gold. There's an 86 for sale somewhere back east for 12 grand. Crazy

Linda S

Askng and some selling prices are certainly high in some areas but . . . I see Sunraders for sale on a weekly basis for less then $2000. In the northeast, down south, out west (Coloradao), etc. Not pristine, but also some that with $1000-$2000 of parts added, and some work - would be just as nice as some of the high priced ones I've been seeing. I passed up a rust-free 18 foot Sunrader last week with an alleged blown head gasket for $800. Had it been closed, I'd bought it in a flash. But it was in North Carolina.

[Maineah]

A 2000 Ford F250 Crew-cab F250 with 152" wheelbase, V8 and 2WD weighs 5,215 lbs. The same in 4WD version weighs 5,730 lbs.

2000 Ford F250 Super Cap with 155" wheelbase and V8 and 2WD weighs 4,910 lbs. With 4WD it weighs 5,330 lbs.

2000 Ford F250 standard cab, V6 and 2WD weighs 4300 lbs. With 4WD it weighs 4,690 lbs.

2000 Chevy 3/4 ton standard cab, 5.3 V8 4WD and 133" wheelbase weighs 4365 lbs.

2000 Chevy 3/4 ton extended cab, 5.3 V8 4WD and 143.5" wheelbase weighs 4621 lbs.

The most popular new Silverado 2WD is over 5,000 # 4X4 Extended cab gas engine 6253# Diesel 7068# Toyota Tacoma 4X4 EC 4190# new F150 EC 2wd 5043# 4X4 5333#

[zero]

The most popular new Silverado 2WD is over 5,000 # 4X4 Extended cab gas engine 6253# Diesel 7068# Toyota Tacoma 4X4 EC 4190# new F150 EC 2wd 5043# 4X4 5333#

I can't say I know what every vehicle under the sun weighs - but what is your point?? What does some trucks being heavier the others got to do with anything discussed here? Maybe I missed something?

In NY, title vehicles get weight-certified and it goes on the title. If anyone wants, I'll post JPGs of the titles.

My 1992 Dodge W200 HD 3/4 ton 4WD extended cab, 8 foot bed, Cummins turbo-intercooled diesel weighs 4,220 lbs.

My 1994 Ford F250 HD 3/4 ton 4WD, extended cab, 8 foot bed, Navistar 7.3 tubor diesel weighs 4,481 lbs.

Oddly, my 1982 Chevy K10 1/2 ton, 4WD diesel outweighs both my 3/4 tons at 4,725 lbs. 8 foot bed, 6.2 non-turbo diesel, NP241 aluminum transfer-case, four speed OD NP833 manual trans, 10 bolt corporate axles front and rear,etc. Hard to figure how it's heavier.

If a new tax-payer supported Chevy with extended cab and 4WD weighs 2000 lbs. more then my trucks - it sounds like good reason why I never want one.

I find those weights a bit hard to believe though. What accounts for 2000 more pounds of weight? Air bags and luxury interiors? They certainly aren't more heavy-duty. Note that my two trucks I listed are HD 3/4 tons and not regular 3/4 tons due to the diesel engines. Both are 8,800 GVW trucks. The Dodge has a Dana HD70 rear, NP-205 cast-iron transfer-case, solid front axle, etc.

[linda s]

very strange cause I'm looking at other online clubs for those trucks and the weight is always a thousand lbs or more higher than yours. Maybe everyone else is wrong

Quote from dodge group

My truck weighs in at 6,340 with a full tank of fuel.

__________________
Stock 4X4 1992 Dodge Cummins Diesel (this is the cummins diesel group)
Manual 5 speed, regular cab
With a hundred thousand and something miles - and still runs great

Maybe he just has a really big gas tank

Linda S

[zero]

very strange cause I'm looking at other online clubs for those trucks and the weight is always a thousand lbs or more higher than yours. Maybe everyone else is wrong

Quote from dodge group

My truck weighs in at 6,340 with a full tank of fuel.

__________________

Stock 4X4 1992 Dodge Cummins Diesel (this is the cummins diesel group)

Manual 5 speed, regular cab

With a hundred thousand and something miles - and still runs great

Maybe he just has a really big gas tank

Linda S

I've been on the so-called NYS checked offical scales many times. My weights have always agree with my DMV titles.

Here are a few of my rigs with certified weights. Trucks, SUVs, even my Datsun 280ZX.

[Maineah]

Those weights have to be shipping negotiated weights there is no way they are that light. My 2002 TDI was all most exactly 1,000# heaver then the VW you have listed that one I do know because I had it shipped.

[zero]

Those weights have to be shipping negotiated weights there is no way they are that light. My 2002 TDI was all most exactly 1,000# heaver then the VW you have listed that one I do know because I had it shipped.

My 92 Dodge and 94 Ford have both been weighed on the truck scales many times. Pretty much matched exactly what's on the titles other then the fuel, passengers and extra weight from the toolbox. I kind of doubt the scales at the scrapyard are off. They are registered and certified by the state. If so the guy is ripping off scrap sellers on a daily basis. You believe whatever you like. I'll believe what the my scale slips show, along with my titles and pubished specs from the companies that built them.