Questions for the purposes of designing an energy independent Toyota motorhome please!

[Stevo]

I'm not done compiling a list of the electronic stuff I'll be using so not sure about the math at this point. I won't be doing anything until I figure this out. The idea of a gas powered battery charger would be a supplement to the solar panels when needed. This guy made his own gas powered DC battery charger http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=199970 using what he claims is a "Honda clone" motor called the Power Horse 208 cc 6.5 hp motor from Northern Tools for about $250.00 with a GM 94 amp alternator (He started with a 63 amp alternator). He says it can charge four 12 volt AGM batteries in 3 to 4 hours at 2000 RPM's at 1 quart of gas per hour. He got the idea from here: http://www.theepicenter.com/tow082099.html

I had this set up in mind before. Unfortunately you'll. Be burning a lot more gas than I'm burning propane.
Dependent on how much you are driving of course.
I just don't think you will drive enough in reality to charge a refrigerator personally. But I must be wrong...
If you have a battery bank that big you need a generator for recharging emergencies. Good or bad one. That one is cheap. Jjd suggests simiilar parts but get a dc charger make your own.... and pray you don't use it or you made a big mistake iin the math of this equation

[stamar]

I think the most difficult thing to communicate on any rv forum is whether someone is an rver or they take their rv to lake on the weekend and its plugged in otherwise.

You're going to see a lot more people with electric stuff in the latter group. Once you leave the grid electricity is very expensive.

I'm putting in 500 watts of solar panels just for a laptop. I don't even have a dream about running an ac unit thaat needs a generator.

[stamar]

I use the guestimate of one eighth the watts in the panel will power that much in electronics.

So 400 watts in panels. 50 watts in refrigerator.

Just a guestimate. I think that's 600 watts to keep pace with your fridge...

With the alternator covering the lows and the batteries collecting some of the highs.

I think that's what you're asking. That's a realistic full time amount of panels the numbers you get from someone else aren't. In fulltime numbers

[stamar]

I believe real rv and boat livers have more in fact I believe a solar powered boat has 1200 watts in panels as a benchmark. I recomend cruising their sites although their solutions are expensive.

And a boat always has a generator a solar array is just hopeful thinking

[stamar]

I believe a lot of rvers use the 4/1 panels to watts formula for an item like a television.

Then take into account that the sun doesnt shine half of the time for something like a refrigerator. unless yyou do turn it off at night. 8/1 is optimistic its including the alternator power you generate.

I think you need about 100 watts in solar panels just to keep up with the interior lights the furnace and charging cell phone batteries in solar panels.

I mean, stock I think the toyhome needs 100 watts in solar panels to cover its standard equipment. its alternator charging will not do it thats why it comes stock with a plug in converter

and thats before you bring in a ghetto blaster or start listening to the stereo before you go to sleep

your 12 volt fridge project is in similar area as my laptop project

now dont get caught up in figures from weekend rvers theyre in a different planet. They can juice up their batteries, then run the fridge with 100 watts of solar slowing down the blood flow and monday plug the thing in and thats what solar does for them...where as 100 watts in solar does nothing to stop the fridge from killing all your deep cycles batteries the first week you hit the road.

[Stevo]

I've been testing this fridge and it turns on once an hour for about 5 minutes. I don't know yet what it spikes at when it first turns on though. I have really simplified my lifestyle in the last couple years and now I'm starting to pay attention to my regular daily energy usage. Off the top of my head I think I might be good with a 250 watt panel and 2 to 3 batteries but don't hold me to that.

The furnace is going to be yanked out and all lights will be LED's.

Then take into account that the sun doesnt shine half of the time for something like a refrigerator. unless yyou do turn it off at night. 8/1 is optimistic its including the alternator power you generate.

I think you need about 100 watts in solar panels just to keep up with the interior lights the furnace and charging cell phone batteries in solar panels.

I mean, stock I think the toyhome needs 100 watts in solar panels to cover its standard equipment. its alternator charging will not do it thats why it comes stock with a plug in converter

[Derek up North]

I've been testing this fridge and it turns on once an hour for about 5 minutes.

That sounds promising. Do you have a fully charged battery you could hook it up to? Then check the battery voltage every hour and to give an idea how much 'juice' you're using? Have you added extra insulation yet?

[Stevo]

No insulation yet but that will be incorporated into the cabinet I build for it that will go in the motorhome. I have a deep cycle battery I pulled out of the motorhome and now I'm looking for a decent charger for it. I'll get back to you with the results.

[zero]

I've been testing this fridge and it turns on once an hour for about 5 minutes. I don't know yet what it spikes at when it first turns on though. I have really simplified my lifestyle in the last couple years and now I'm starting to pay attention to my regular daily energy usage. Off the top of my head I think I might be good with a 250 watt panel and 2 to 3 batteries but don't hold me to that.

The furnace is going to be yanked out and all lights will be LED's.

I got around the same result with a 4 cubic foot AC fridge I got at a yard sale for $20. After I insulated it with 1" of poly-foam board - at 75 degrees F it came on about once an hour for 5 minutes. I then hooked it to a pair of 120 amp-hour batteries and a 1500 watt inverter and left in on for 3 full days. After that it was still working fine but batteries were below half-charged (not good for any battery). I have it in one of my RVs now with 2" of foam around it. Works great. I'd rather it was a DC with no inverter needed - but for $20, I'm not complaining. If it ever dies on the road - I can get a new fridge for $75 at any Walmart or Home Depot.

If you add insulation to your fridge, make sure you don't block the cooling grid.

I'm redoing my Toyota Chinook and have been looking for a DC fridge. I have a huge 7 cubic foot upright I yanked out of monster Class A Winnebago but that's too big for my Chinook. I just found out this morning I got another DC fridge without knowing it. I bought a Winnebago Phasar Itasca last month for $200. I just towed it today since the snow melted this week (our January thaw). Ends up it has a Norcold DC-254 refrigerator in it and it works fine. 19" X 21" X 15". Perfect size for my Chinook. I guess I lucked out on the Phasar for $200. I checked it all over and it has four like-new tires - 8 ply, 27 X 8.50 X14R" , a 32 amp AC to DC converter/charger B-W Manuf. Incorp. series 6300, Norcold DC-254 fridge, Suburban NT20SE propane furnace, 30 lbs. horizontal propane tank with electric "fill" monitor, Winegard crank-up TV antenna with amp, good water-pump, stove, cabinets, etc. This Phasar is so nicely engineered I kind of hate to strip it - but I want much of the stuff for my Chinook.

[stamar]

I missed how stevo got the fridge for 278 delived his link says its 604 delivered.

It makes a big difference to me. I feel like a dc fridge is a better fit for me actually just because I stopped using my propane fridge altogether.

[Stevo]

You mean this link here http://tinyurl.com/b4zgfjw that was in my first post that started this thread? The link works for me, and yup, $278 delivered to my door.

Say what?! What do you mean "a DC fridge is a better fit" for you? You've been the most pro-propane fridge and vociferously anti-DC fridge voice on here.

I missed how stevo got the fridge for 278 delived his link says its 604 delivered.


It makes a big difference to me. I feel like a dc fridge is a better fit for me actually just because I stopped using my propane fridge altogether.

[stamar]

to me your link comes out now as saying 679$

the reason a free dc fridge would be better than the propane fridge I have is because I dont use it. i dont go off into the forest ever I wouldnt use the dc fridge much either but if it had a simple on off i would be more likely to throw groceries in it at times.

I want a top loading fridge actually a big part of why i dont use it is its on the ground.

[stamar]

it says 225 off but the price is 679$

[Stevo]

Yes I know. That link was just to show the model I bought. They had a sale the day before Christmas that included free shipping and a couple hundred off and mine was one of the "scratch and dent" models which dropped the price another hundred or so. Scratch and Dents were damaged in shipping and sent back to them. You have to look really reeeeeeally close to see the two little dents in mine so I'm okay with it to save a few hundreds dollars. I read at the expo forum that they will probably have another sale around Valentines Day. If you don't care about the "scratch and dent" stuff then get on their list to be notified when one is in stock. But hey, what changed your mind so radically from propane to a DC fridge?

[stamar]

I think I just said that I dont care. I dont use my propane fridge because it takes a minute to turn it on and off. also my airbags are off center.

So I wouldnt use a dc fridge much either but if it was like that one I would for two reasons. It opens from the top and i could just switch it on.

I dont camp much although I aspire too. Thats where the propane fridge is better.

But mostly it was for a minute I thought it cost 278$ but it doesnt.

right at the moment here in portland the ambient temperature is colder than either kind of refrigerator so its pretty low on my list. But actually Im pretty sure id use a dc fridge more just because Id straight turn it off most of the time then turn it on when someone gave me food that needed it.....

[5Toyota]

i will make a V W STATMENT HERE MY FATHER BOUGHT A BRAND NEW 1971 FOUR DOOR SEADEN V W 411 CAME STANDERED EQP DELUXE STWERT WARNER GASILENE HEATER AND THE BASIC EXT HEATER THAT GAS HEATER WAS hot hot .THAT WAS A KIND OF RARE MODEL 71 72 73 HE DROVE IT 23 years

[zero]

i will make a V W STATMENT HERE MY FATHER BOUGHT A BRAND NEW 1971 FOUR DOOR SEADEN V W 411 CAME STANDERED EQP DELUXE STWERT WARNER GASILENE HEATER AND THE BASIC EXT HEATER THAT GAS HEATER WAS hot hot .THAT WAS A KIND OF RARE MODEL 71 72 73 HE DROVE IT 23 years

We used to have customers bring their VWs in for "tune ups" on the heaters, which sounds kind of funny. They took a spark plug not much different then used in the engine. I saw a lot of Corvairs with them too. Back in the 30s-40s many water-cooled cars had them in the US. Newest VW I recall seeing a gas heater on was a 1979 Type II.

[waiter]

I wish my VW van would have had one, we froze our buns off with the standard exhaust muff heater, especially when on a long downhill like I-80 between Donner Summit and Sacramento. BBBRRR

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[zero]

I wish my VW van would have had one, we froze our buns off with the standard exhaust muff heater, especially when on a long downhill like I-80 between Donner Summit and Sacramento. BBBRRR

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

Where I live in NY it was common to see VW drivers in the winter driving with their driver's side window wide open (during the air-cooled days of VWs). That so the driver could reach out an keep scraping off the windshield as he/she drove. I was one of them when I had a VW bus. Bascially had no working windshield defroster and the heat inside came from a Coleman "white gas" heater. I later got a Type II with the optional gasoline heater. Really made heat but also used quite a bit of gasoline when it was zero degrees out.

[Derek up North]

Didn't they also have windshield washers 'powered' by the air pressure in the spare tire? Or am I thinking of the wrong manufacturer 'thinking outside the box"!

[waiter]

JD, Been there, Done that. but loved the van in spite of the sucky heater.

Some airplanes are similar, some have exhaust muff heat (they suck at high altitude or when your in a descent) many of the high dollar piston planes have a gas heater like you described. Most turbines use compressed bypass air.

Derrick, yes, the older ones had a hose that connected to the spare tire. Mine had an air fitting on the washer bottle, needed to pressurize the washer bottle.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[zero]

Didn't they also have windshield washers 'powered' by the air pressure in the spare tire? Or am I thinking of the wrong manufacturer 'thinking outside the box"!

My VW had a bottle that had to be pressurized with air. My 66 Sunbeam Alpine had rubber bellows on the floor for the windshield washer. You stomped on it to make it work.

On another funny note (on windshield engineering) my 59 Ford and 6-something Jeep both had vacuum powered windshield wipers that ran off the engines fuel-pump. I guess they were WAY ahead of their time. Built in safety feature. When it was pouring rain you did not dare stomp on the gas pedal because the wipers would stop (from lack of vacuum).

And about spares? My 1979 Datsun 280ZX came with a flat spare tire. It will not fit when filled. Came new with a little one-time use air cannister to fill it when needed.

[waiter]

JD, I forgot about the little rubber bladder pump thing. That goes back a ways :-).

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Derek up North]

My 66 Sunbeam Alpine had rubber bellows on the floor for the windshield washer. You stomped on it to make it work.

My MGA has a similar concept washer (as do early 'Bs) though it's hand operated on the dash. Actually, I think the washer was optional. As was the heater.

I think the GMC MH from the '70s had vacuum powered wipers too. I think they often get modified using an electric wiper from the Lumina.

[zero]

My MGA has a similar concept washer (as do early 'Bs) though it's hand operated on the dash. Actually, I think the washer was optional. As was the heater.

I think the GMC MH from the '70s had vacuum powered wipers too. I think they often get modified using an electric wiper from the Lumina.

I still have an early MGB (metal bumbers) and the remnants of a Sunbeam Tiger. Back in the 60s - Sunbeams were considered "high-tech" as compared to many MGs and Triumphs. That because of super-modern stuff like tube shock absorbers, roll-up windows, dimmers for the lights on the dashboard, windscreen washer, etc. My Sunbeam has little frog-like eyelids that you flip down over the dash lights to make them dimmer. I.e. all mechanical with translucent shades and no electronics.

I recall when heaters were optional on American cars. I went with my dad to pick up his new Ford, at the New Jersey factory in early 1959. He bought the most bare-bones car Ford offered. "Mileage-maker" 223 six, manual choke, manual steering, vacuum windshield wipers, three speed non-synchro trans on the column, no radio and no heater. The lack of a heater was the only suprise to him. One quickly got added.

[Derek up North]

I forgot to mention the MGAs vacuum 'timed' turn indicators, horn button in the middle of the dash, 'fly-off' handbrake, hand crank and 'pull-to-start' knob.

[Derek up North]

And plywood floorboards! :)

[zero]

Old HD Chevy trucks had wood frames - kind of like Morgan cars. At that time, Ford had the "edge" with the Model TT truck with a real steel frame.

Hows this for an odd-ball starting system . . my 1936 John Deere tractor has a steering wheel that comes off to use for starting. Steering wheel pulls off with shaft and you jam it into the flywheel and spin for "easy" starting.