aptruncata Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Hello just to give you an idea what has gone on so far..... purchased on saturday, drove home 25 miles without an issue. -previous owner rebuilt carb, adjusted timing, replaced O2 sensor, replaced cat, new radiator, new waterpump, oil change. -sunday night; changed plugs which were greyish with ngk @0.32 spec, replaced plug wires, replaced air filter. -Monday: went for smog, failed, gross polluter and bad gas cap -drove the truck to smog + repair place....on the frwy felt bogging down on 4th gear under acceleration at about 45-50mph. felt like a loss of power, bucking back and forward, shifted to third went away. back to fourth gear and felt it again...downshifted to third and now bogging in third. off the fwry and got to repair station. -repair station put the timing back to 5 degree (to spec) from 12 degree, told them about the bogging, they changed out the fuel filter which was pouring out (black ink) gas. -on the way home, everything is fine local for about 20 mins, but after 40 mph on 3rd, i can feel the bogging coming back, got on the freeway in hopes of getting it home asap, bogged completely, bucking wild, shifted to second, same thing...now cruising at 25 mph on fwy, dodging 16 wheelers, pulled over safely about 100 yards from exit, once the traffic cleared, made the run for it first and second....while bogging managed to get off, pulled over. -decided to take it slow, locally...now the vehicle is idling rough and about the stall. While going up 5% grade on first, it bogged and died. -waited 10 mins to cool, drove better but still bogged on 3rd and 4th if i gassed it. -what was a 10 min drive home turned out to be an hour long headache. Tuesday morning: rough idle but warmed up okay, passed smog and parked it. I've realized very quickly how nobody wants to deal with a carbureted vehicle. Dirty gas? Fuel line? Fuel Pressure? Fuel pump? Carburetor rebuild again? (because of bad gas?) empty the tanks and start over? bad O2? is the cat shot? distributor? rotor? plugs gapped too close? wires bad? timing chain? Anything and everything will be appreciated. Wife is so mad at me she won't talk to me about this purchase and i'm totally lost. Richard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 How old is the gasoline? Find a Pick-ur-Part and get a carb. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumolt Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I would drop the gas tank and clean it out. Obvious problem is bad gas (old gas) which has bad consequences on all vehicles, even fuel injected ones. You need to blow out your gas lines, change the filter again, clean the carb, which is fairly easy to do and then start with fresh gasoline once you've gone through the system. Any gas hoses made of rubber should be replaced too which new gas hose. The problem is gasohol deteriorates the rubber hoses and that in itself along with old gas can cause this problem. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 @waiter, i purchased the truck with 1/2 tank of gas which the previous owner said has been sitting in southern california weather for about a year. @tumolt, i suspected the same and thought it would be best to at least start with clean fuel so i can pinpoint what's wrong. I first thought it was heat related since the vehicle was semi-driveable after 10-15 min cooldown. So i thought it was possibly a cheap cat they put in or a bad o2 sensor.....but now that i think about it.....the tank was nearing empty while i was on my way to the mechanics shop. Does bad fuel have crud on the bottom? On my way back i assumed everything was repaired and filled up with $50 worth of regular gas. is that batch now ruined? @karincorbin, i've replaced the fuel filter. The mechanic took out a metal one which poured out black ink (literally). -how difficult is it to drop the tank and replace all the fuel lines? should i replace the pump as well? Thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Sounds like old gas to me. Most Toys have a drain in the gas tank, carefully drain it and see what comes out. Do this outside away from any possible flame. Does your Toy have an in tank electric fuel pump or is it mounted below the cam cover. The external pump is cheap and easy to change. If that doesn't get it then its time to flush the fuel system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 @yababy, I'll take a looksy to look for a plug. Is it a screw type? or a standard bottle cap type? I don't know where the fuel pump is on this unit, it's a 84 22r 4 speed stick. what would involve flushing the fuel system? new tank? or just clean? change all fuel lines, filter and pump and rebuild the carb? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 YOU say that is a 22 r carb the fuel pump is the old time mechincal type they contain rubber diaframs witch can get old and brittle and can cause bogging no power such as you describe. its mounted right on the left front side of the head driven right off the over head camshaft. the tank drain plug is a standerd socket head type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Siphon as much gas out of it as you can get, when you siphon, drip the gas thru a coffee filter and see what it looks like. If there's a lot of crap (rust/dirt) you might consider dropping the tank and cleaning it. Fill the tank with super duper premium, go for a drive. JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 AGREE GET RID OF ALL OLD GAS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 1, 2012 Author Share Posted November 1, 2012 Okay so the general consensus is to get rid of the gas. the fuel in the fuel filter was blacker than black ink so expecting some dirty gas in there. questions: should i just empty and refill with fresh gas or drop and clean and reinstall or get a new tank? and if the bogging still persists after 10+ miles of driving.....replace the fuel pump? How about i just get a new tank, fuel lines, filter, pump and rebuild the carbs? this way i can take fuel and carb issue out of the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 i had a car set for year and a half ate the gas tank up inside even thou you just changed the filter it might be pluged up that fast again thats what ours did. finaly droped the tank took out the sending unit and had a look in the tank inside all ate up . YOUR TANK MAY BE OK JUST FULL of junk . you get fixed up dont use cheap brand gas . AND USE GAS STABILIZER I USE IN EVERTHING. I DID NOT USE IN THAT CAR BACK THEN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 I'd say get as much gas out as you can, look at whats coming out, then make a decision to drop the tank based on what you see. fill the tank with high test, this will dilute the few gallons that you can't get out. You will be amazed how 6-9 month old gasoline turns to a varnish. Long term storage can also cause water to collect in the gas tank, cause rust, and can actually eat thru the tank. The water gets in the tank via condensation. if your storing for a couple months 3-4, Keep the tank full, and condensation cant get in. If your storing for a long time greater than 6 months, keep the tank empty. An empty tanks physical skin temperature can change quickly to match the outside air temperature, this will minimize condensation forming in the tank. in you have a partialy filled tank, the fuel cannot heat or cool quickly to match the outside temperature, so any air thats inside the tank, can condense to form water droplets inside the tank. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uthorns Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 For what it's worth I had a Ford motorhome that would run great til it was good and warmed up, maybe 30 or so miles, then it was start studdering from fuel loss. It turned out to be the fuel pump. It was electric pump however not mechanical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 2, 2012 Author Share Posted November 2, 2012 Purchased factory fuel pump and fuel filter. Will drain tank, new filter and pump and will report. Manual says to remove the upper radiator hose before getting to the fuel pump but is it necessary? it seems doable without removal. @uthorns, that seems to be what i'm experiencing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haffcke Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Hey i agree with all above first, probably gas with what your describing, and dropping the tank is not that hard to do, by the way i have always added gas stabilizer to all my gas users that sit for 3 months or more, never let me down yet. but if it turns out that gas is not the culprit check the catalytic converter had one do just as you described on a 7.3 liter diesel 800 miles from home while pulling my 12000 lb. TT and i had to run at 45 miles per on i95 for 500 of those miles until i found someone open on a Sunday to work on it, little old ladies giving me the finger as they passed and truck drivers cutting in front of me real close, any ways just food for though. Phil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 @haffcke, yes i've considered it and the previous owner has put in a "oem" cat for $180 last year as the receipts show. but while there are so many things that can lead to this bog down since i know the fuel is dirty (as witnessed black ink from the filter), i thought it'd be a good place to start the process of elimination. After flushing the tank, replacing necessary lines, filter and pump, next will be the carb rebuild and after that....i hope at least i won't have driving issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 speaking of the cat the reg muffler can fall apart inside and block off the ext out of it i had this happen too me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 not a toy, but had the cat do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Check the vacuum tubes all the connections trim some off. and adjust the carburator It started i n the tank but now the carburator is clogged. Black in the gas is that the gunk in the tank literally sat long enough to dissolve into the gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 @stamar, that sounds like the general consensus. -The tank has been dropped and found to be rusty inside, it's sent out to be blasted and recoated. -New fuel filter (toyota) has been installed -New mechanical fuel pump (toyota) has been installed -Carb is getting a through cleaning, rebuilding and adjusting. one thing that puzzles me is the fact that the mechanic who is working on it says he found a secondary electronic fuel pump in the tank which was not working. Any guesses? I'm crossing my fingers that this will take care of the bogging issue.....i really hope it works and its not a blown head gasket. recap: previous owner replaced thermostat, radiator and cat. There may be a possibility that previously the cat broke loose blocking the manifold which could have raised the temp enough to overheat the engine....which explains the replacements of the thermostat and radiator.....but that's all just speculation for now. I appreciate all the help and input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Some of the R's had an in tank fuel pump. But I think they were older than yours. Just install the proper sender/fuel pickup and run the engine mounted pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 one thing that puzzles me is the fact that the mechanic who is working on it says he found a secondary electronic fuel pump in the tank which was not working. Any guesses? The only thing I'd guess is that a used tank was installed from a different year that had an in-tank pump already there. Maybe the mechanical pump doesn't have enough oomph to draw fuel through the inoperative pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 @Derek Assuming the electronic pump was on there all this time without being hooked up to any source of power, can a mechanical pump in the engine bay draw fuel through the dud without a problem? I would think if it's a dud, it wouldn't let anything through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Assuming your mechanic has correctly identified a fuel pump in there, apparently they can. At least for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 WME the 1978 .76. 77 20 r did also run eletric pumps in the tank. BUT IN HIS CASE maybe they changed tank hit rock etc who knows. maybe changed moter from 22re efi to 22r carb been done before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aptruncata Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 Good Morning all, I wanted to give you folks an update on the truck. -the tank has been removed, sand blasted and coated inside with new coating. the non-functional electrical fuel pump has been removed, sending unit screen has been replaced along with the worn out tube. the tank is huge and appears to be about 30 gallons. -the fuel filter was replaced. -the fuel pump was replaced. -the carb was rebuilt and adjusted. RESULT: this engine revs freely through the rpm range and idles so very nicely. I want to thank all of you for your guidance and pointers that helped me diagnose the issue. Every other day i'm driving it as much as possible to make sure there are no other kinks before our maiden voyage on next weekend. My boss (wife) is ecstatic. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 If you have the factory optional fuel (you lucky dog) its 25 gallons. It would also explain the fuel pump in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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