R12 Ac System

[Totem]

unless "scientific" types start another ozone hole end of world sky is falling meme, I wouldnt worry too much. The entire reason r12 is gone is because it supposedly depletes ozone. There are 2 tracks of thought on how the heavier R12 gets up into the stratosphere and above... One, that "wind" blows the heavier r12 up there because it has a 90 lifespan in 90 days it makes its way up there in updrafts or two, that it does not make its way up there at all from vehicles such as cars but rather planes. Either way, if you can get it and your equipment still works I would say its worth a try to have em hit it with a couple cans. If your compressor et all is old and trashed then yes, a conversion is probably in order.

and jde, the only mental defect I have to your 2.) is the premise of your assumption that everyone selling a vehicle with nonworking AC has some evil nefarious problem that they dont want to find out about. The reality with many used cars is that they have been setting or the owner just doesn't feel like charging the AC because , why bother, they just want it gone. So really, that's your mental defect of suspicion. The collaborate IQ of the average american gave us our current start studded set of situations, and most kids today wouldn't even want to charge their own AC let alone attempt to change their own oil. Its a sweet spot for people like us that aren't afraid to roll up our sleeves. Don't get me wrong, I suspect plenty of people for plenty of things, but purposely trying to pawn off a cryptically screwed up AC system in a $4000 used car isn't one of them.

[zero]

. Don't get me wrong, I suspect plenty of people for plenty of things, but purposely trying to pawn off a cryptically screwed up AC system in a $4000 used car isn't one of them.

I don't agree and you're not going to convince me otherwise. If someone has a vehicle for sale and they say the AC doesn't work - fine. When they say it doen't work and it "only needs a charge" - the claim is ridiculous. That is unless they know the AC system is fine with no leaks and they let the gas out intentionally. AC systems don't drain just because a vehicle hasn't been used in awhile. My 1979 Datsun with R12 has never been charged and I've owned it since 1982. It was parked for 11 years and when I got it running again, the AC worked fine. My 1994 F250 that also has R12 is parked and not run from November to June every year. Been doing that for 14 years now and it's never needed a charge.

I put the "just needs a charge " AC thing in the same category as "uses oil - just needs rings" or "doesn't run - but easy fix."

[Totem]

"Running the air conditioner also helps keep the components from atrophying over the winter—it prevents loss of the refrigerant, and keeps up the service life by preventing expensive repairs down the road."

sorry to educate you:

source:

Read more: http://www.automotive.com/news/when-running-your-car-s-air-conditioner-in-winter-is-a-good-thing-6951/#ixzz3RwQdX2Ar
Follow us: @MyAutomotive on Twitter | AutomotiveCom on Facebook

in response to :

"AC systems don't drain just because a vehicle hasn't been used in awhile."

[Donnie]

I'm not sure of the vehicle / vehicles that you are all discussing, but SOME cars & trucks will cycle the AC when the defroster is turned on..

As I said, not all vehicles do this, but some do.....And I will add that the Halon detector is most helpful if the leak is coming from the evaporator or under the dash where soapy water, dye or whatever is difficult to use...........Donnie

[jjrbus]

I am having front end work done at independent shop and talking to him about converting to 134a. He wants to replace compressor also.

I'm thinking hard to access 22 year old compressor in unknown condition. Is replacing compressor good idea?

JIm SW FL

[zero]

I am having front end work done at independent shop and talking to him about converting to 134a. He wants to replace compressor also.

I'm thinking hard to access 22 year old compressor in unknown condition. Is replacing compressor good idea?

JIm SW FL

Same compressor was used in many other vehicles including Mercedes. No problem finding brand new ones or rebuilt. Denso # 10PA15C. Many shops won't guarantee work like you need without all new seals. The compressor has the only "moving" seal in the entire system - i.e. the shaft-seal. What the shop wants to do sounds reasonable to me. There are brand-new Chinese clone compressors for $100

.

You can buy a seal kit that has every seal and o-ring in your system for $15. Problem is - the compressor really needs be torn down and checked over to be resealed and warranteed. Few places do that sort of work themselves anymore. Often easier and cheaper just to buy a replacement.

On some newer vehicles - some shops are installed AC "modules" in problem vehicles where just about the entire system gets replaced.

[zero]

"Running the air conditioner also helps keep the components from atrophying over the winter—it prevents loss of the refrigerant, and keeps up the service life by preventing expensive repairs down the road."

sorry to educate you:

source:

Read more: http://www.automotive.com/news/when-running-your-car-s-air-conditioner-in-winter-is-a-good-thing-6951/#ixzz3RwQdX2Ar

Follow us: @MyAutomotive on Twitter | AutomotiveCom on Facebook

in response to :

"AC systems don't drain just because a vehicle hasn't been used in awhile."

You don't have the knowledge nor the experience to educate me on this subject.

[zero]

I'm not sure of the vehicle / vehicles that you are all discussing, but SOME cars & trucks will cycle the AC when the defroster is turned on..

As I said, not all vehicles do this, but some do.....And I will add that the Halon detector is most helpful if the leak is coming from the evaporator or under the dash where soapy water, dye or whatever is difficult to use...........Donnie

Yes, all my GMs and my Ford truck automatically trigger the AC pump when in "defrost" mode. So do both my Dodge vans. My 1988 and 1978 Toyotas do not. But if I have to drive any of my Toyotas in the winter - I HAVE to turn the AC on when the defroster is on - just to keep the windows from fogging up.

[zero]

Here's a list of other vehicles that use the same AC compressor as your Toyota.

[Totem]

You don't have the knowledge nor the experience to educate me on this subject.

indeed, teaching those that don't listen and cannot learn is not in my skill set.

[zero]

You either have a mental problem or a reading-comprehension issue. I suspect the latter. If that is the case, all you need to do is read the past discussion here and it's easy to see what's going on. You have repeatedly argued over things I never said. If there was no written record I could see where this might be an issue of "misreading" , "misunderstanding", or "faiulre of written communication." But like I said, it is all still here to re-read.

As others smarter then I have said . . " a fool that argues with a fool is more of a fool." I say this to indicate I am not trying to argue. Just to point out that maybe you need to go back, re-read, and re-think before you pontificate.

[Totem]

[Ace57]

Hi, I have been reading this post for a few days now , I worked on semi trucks for 35 years (now retired) and have been to two AC schools. I most likely worked on 1500 to 2000 AC systems and as far as AC's go it sounds as if jdemaris knows what he is talking about.

[jjrbus]

I like saving a few $$$ as much or more than anyone, however looking at where the compressor is located I think I will go for a new quality one : )

Thanks for all the input on this greatly appreciated. JIm SW FL

[zero]

I assume the shops where you are in Florida need to be good or not last long, since you likely use AC more then here in the northeast. Here in northern MI I probably use AC more in the winter then in the summer - to keep the "fog" off the inside of the windshield. Especially if my dog is sitting in front, since she is a "hot air" machine.

If you are converting from R12 to 134A - that gives even more reason to change the compressor. Some systems get system oil trapped in the compressor and it's sometimes near impossible to get all the oil out unless the compressor is removed. Not getting all oil out is a major reason why conversions fail. The original system for R12 oil is NOT compatible with 134A.

One added comment. If that compressor has ever failed in any way - most shops will refuse to put in a new one and warranty it unless the condensor is new also. Once a compressor blows there are often small pieces of debris that get stuck in the condensor and can't be all flushed out. At least not 100% for sure. This is why many shops sell AC modules (multi component kits) for AC systems that have seen catastrophic failure.

[Totem]

let us know the price quote you get JJ, it will be good for people to know what to expect.

[warrior maintianer]

I had a shop for 30 years and converted hundreds of vehicles to 134r. To make it work as good as Freon 12 you need a bigger condenser (the piece in front of your radiator) or a extra fan (electric turns on when the ac is on). when you are working on ac you have 2 lines coming off your compressor (high side is outside, low side is inside)The high side psi is no joke and can be dangerous. if your system has a trace of Freon (and you have a friend who makes beer and uses nitrogen to charge there kegs) You can use the nitrogen (very cheep and dry) to charge the system and look for a leak If you get it to run the gauge set will mirror Freon reading but without a full charge will not work correctly. If you can find your leak put the system under vacuum first if that holds charge it. You will not need as much Freon if you use 134 if you look you can find a formula for the conversion.

John

[Timbone]

I converted my R12 to the 134a and I cannot tell you the difference from the R12 but can tell you I have as low as 39° coming out of the Dash Vents! That was done on our 91 G20 Van. Quite pleased with the results. BJ'S Wholesale offers a recharge kit once the conversion is done and I do have a slow leak somewhere, early to mid summer I need to recharge it, 40.00, well worth it for me, need my AC!

[jjrbus]

I am gathering up parts on this, Condenser looks terrible so will replace, already ordered and drier. Due to not knowing how long system has not been working ( no pressure in system) and location, I am also going to replace compressor, while I have it apart.

Compressor has me a bit confused. Is there a difference between R12 and 134a compressor? I see some ad's mentioning R12.

Are the rebuilt compressors worth buying? Where is good place to buy compressor??

Soaking everything with PB in anticipation of work. JIm SW FL

[jjrbus]

I've converted over a dozen cars and trucks with R12 to 134A. That being said, my 1988 Toyota still has R12. If it springs a leak, I'd convert it. .This is a subject that seems to get some people upset and insist conversions do not work. Mine have worked fine. Guess you'll have to make up your own mind.

#1 - you have to identify the leak. Not always easy to do. If your system is not working and you did not drain it intentionally, it leaks.

134A will result is less cooling but not by a lot.

One important thing to consider with changing. 134A has smaller molecules then R12 and leaks through the walls of "old style" rubber hoses. When 134A became the norm in 1995 - rubber hoses for AC all got switched to "barrier" hose design. So the hoses in your 1993 will likely leak if used with 134A. New hoses for your Toyota (if made after 1995) will be barrier hoses. To convert you need a new receiver-drier (4 Seasons # 33583) for $9, two adapter fittings for $4 each (4 Seasons #59978 & #59976), o-ring kit (4 Seasons # 26750) for $8, Ester oil for $10, and 3-4 cans of 134A. If I was doing it - I'd buy two new rubber hose assemblies for $35 each (4 Seasons #55868 & #56315), and also change all the o-rings. Total cost of all WITH new rubber hoses is around $120. Less then $50 if you do not change the rubber hoses.

If you stick with R12, you basically have to buy and install illegally unless you have a license. Also pay $25 and up a can which can REALLY hurt if it leaks out the day after you install it.

Also note that 134A is also on the way to being phased out so prices will be shooing up.

I ordered the condenser and radiator from different vendor. Your part numbers and prices were right on! The AC compressor is a Denso.

Many thanks JIm

Part Number Part Type Price EA Core EA Quantity Total No Vehicle Specified FOUR SEASONS 55868 A/C Refrigerant Hose $ 34.79 $ 0.00 1 $ 34.79 FOUR SEASONS 56315 A/C Refrigerant Hose $ 34.79 $ 0.00 1 $ 34.79 FOUR SEASONS 59978 A/C Compressor Service Valve / Adapter $ 4.02 $ 0.00 1 $ 4.02 FOUR SEASONS 59976 A/C Compressor Service Valve / Adapter $ 4.01 $ 0.00 1 $ 4.01 1993 TOYOTA PICKUP 3.0L V6 GPD 9642087 A/C Compressor & Component Kit $ 161.79 - 1 $ 161.79 GPD

6511595

[Kit Component] A/C Compressor

$ 139.00 $ 0.00 1 - GPD

1411557

[Kit Component] A/C Receiver Drier / Accumulator

$ 7.45 $ 0.00 1 - GPD

3411239

[Kit Component] A/C Expansion Valve

$ 9.49 $ 0.00 1 - GPD

1321284

[Kit Component] A/C System O-Rings, Seals, & Gasket Kits

$ 5.85 $ 0.00 1 - Shipping Ground $ 37.69 Order Total $ 277.09

[Totem]

If its broke fix it, replace it do whatever you feel. But if it ain't broke why fix it, just charge it regardless of what type of coolant it uses.

gutting the AC and completely replacing every last part should result in a good system. doing a partial conversion will never be as good as the factory original.

Glad you admitted:

"134A will result is less cooling but not by a lot."