toyboxII Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Hi all--just got our '92 V-6 back from the mechanic. Last year (2500 miles ago) we spent $3000. at the dealer having the valves adjusted and lots of other maintenance items. Shortly after, I got a check engine light, took it back to dealer and had codes read. Three codes, EGR, temperature sensor, or O2 sensor. Had EGR cleaned, and replaced both sensors. Still idles roughly. Mechanic (private not dealer) put his head together with other mechanics who work on Toyotas and he seems to feel that the rough idle is connected to ignition or timing. Any of you experienced gurus out there want to give me some direction? This is getting old fast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 PS--when dealer did all the work on my engine, I insisted he use only genuine Toyota parts. All plugs, wires and ignition parts were replaced 2500 miles ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdfrost64 Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 may sound stupid but check all the gaskets on intake. and vac hoses. spraying starting fluid around intake can usually find leaks if there are any. also check mass air sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I had this after getting the exhaust valve shims replaced. My problem was the vacuum lines were crossed.john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted August 28, 2014 Author Share Posted August 28, 2014 Hey Vanman--as I had all the vacuum lines replaced by the dealer, can I assume (and we all know what happens when we assume) that they were replaced properly. Can you elaborate on what lines were crossed and how you fixed it? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 I suggest that you get a service manual. With the manual you will be able to check vacuum line routing and it will have a trouble shooting guide somewhere that will give you some pretty good hints on your troubles. I carry mine in the RV at all times and use it frequently. The photos in the manual really help determine if the hoses are on properly. Also remember that your mechanic is only human and may have gotten the hoses on wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 He had them all connected, just two to the wrong places. He e-mailed me a nice vacuum line pictorial and I just swapped the 2 he had wrong.What is funny is that my motor has 4 VSV's not the 3 shown in his documentation, or my Chiltons book. Still don't know exactly what the frontmost VSV is for.john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted August 28, 2014 Share Posted August 28, 2014 Personally I would have the compression checked sounds like they have a valve too tight. Timing can cause a rough idle but by doing so would cause either spark knock or lack of power. If a valve too tight it will have lower compression on that cylinder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks Maineh--mechanic, who is not Toyota knowledgeable, referred me to someone who is. My mechanic seems to think it is timing related or something in the ignition. Loss of power is an issue, but since it has never been a ball of fire in the power department, I didn't connect the lack of power to the timing. Guess a trip back to the dealer who did all the work is in order to see if they can figure this out. Thanks for your input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I'm think incorrect shim measurement at the dealer too. Not a lot of mechanics know how to do this properly. All the mechanics at the closest dealer to me are very young. Experienced guys open their own shop and make a lot more money than the pittance the dealers pay around here. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted August 29, 2014 Share Posted August 29, 2014 I'm think incorrect shim measurement at the dealer too. Not a lot of mechanics know how to do this properly. All the mechanics at the closest dealer to me are very young. Experienced guys open their own shop and make a lot more money than the pittance the dealers pay around here. Linda S Yes valve adjustment is a lost art in years past it was part of a tune up in most Japanese cars that had readily adjustable valves. The 3L V6 requires among other things the ability to read a micrometer and be able to add and subtract! Another thing they might check is valve timing one tooth off on any driven gear will have a profound effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted August 29, 2014 Author Share Posted August 29, 2014 Thanks to everyone who has had something to contribute. I was very careful in selecting a dealership to do the valve adjustment as, after all the reading of how much of job this was and what skill was required, I wanted to find the best qualified person I could to do the job. The dealership said that they were familiar with this job and that the only mechanic on their staff that they would permit to do the job was a certain guy. I requested that they give me a full written report of all adjustments and work done. They also were to use only OEM parts which they did. The handwritten report that the mechanic gave me showed both the before and the after measurements of the valves. The after measurements (if they are accurate) indicate that the valves are where they should be and that none are too tight. Guess the next step is to have the timing checked by the mechanic who did the work and see what he says. Will have to wait till after Labor Day. Thanks again to you all and I will keep you posted as to the results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nam Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 My experience at the dealer ship wasn't pleasant at all. Since they did the recall, I had them do the valve clearance adjustment, timing belt, and water pump. After I got the truck back, I found silicone tube in the engine, compressor's belt was loose and an extra "zero" on the mileage recorded for timing belt replacement. Timing is not too hard to check. I would also check compresion, check all the vacumm lines. Try injector clearners... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Yeah, Take note of the visual check report they fill out. I chuckled when it reported that all my tires were OK @50psi. My duals are 60psi. They don't even bother checking. Do your homework and always ask for the old parts back if they are replacing them. Trust the mechanic only as far as you can throw him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I had the same check engine - turned out to be the O2 sensor, about $100 at most auto parts, a bit more at the dealer. easy to change - wish I had done it sooner. was on an expensive wild goose chase until I did. o2 sensors to go bad - so even if that is not causing your issues - it will not be money totally wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 UPDATE--aRRRRGGGG! Sorry for the pirate talk, but I just returned from the dealer. After waiting five hours for them to diagnose and try to correct the rough idle, the mechanic pronounced that the valve guide on cylinder #6 had "slipped out of place" and was causing no compression. So running on five cylinders made it feel like a lack of power and caused the rough idle. Anyway, the wife picked me up and we left it in their hands to fix. Everything was fine before I had the valve adjusted and some major maintenance done last year--now this! What do you all think--is there a connection between the work done and this problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 Didn't it run rough right when you picked it up? They were the only ones messing with it. They need to fix it for nothin Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Hi Linda--when I picked it up, it seemed so much better than when I took it in that I really didn't notice. We only drive it down to Florida for about a week where it sits until it is time for us to come back north for the summer. A total of about ten days driving a year--so I didn't notice much. Hope they will be fair about this new problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 OK--now I'm getting mad! Dealer just called to report that #6 valve is burned and quoted me a price of $1850. to replace this and the head gasket. When I complained that I had just paid $3000. to have the valves adjusted and other major work done less than 2500 miles ago, I didn't get much sympathy. Service rep offered me a 10% discount right away, but when I suggested that the problem might have been caused by their mechanic, she had to refer my case to her service manager who is supposed to contact me tomorrow. Meanwhile, they don't have the parts in stock so the waiting continues. Will keep you posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 That # 6 is notorious for getting burned but NOT after it has just been adjusted. Unless they didn't do the job correctly Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted September 8, 2014 Author Share Posted September 8, 2014 Dealer had me wait to have a specific mechanic who is familiar with the 3.0 V-6 so that the job would be done properly. Just looked at the receipt for the work order and he had the #6 valve set at .09. which is in spec but just barely Think the exhaust valves should have been set on the loose side at closer to .13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 8, 2014 Share Posted September 8, 2014 OK--now I'm getting mad! Dealer just called to report that #6 valve is burned and quoted me a price of $1850. to replace this and the head gasket. When I complained that I had just paid $3000. to have the valves adjusted and other major work done less than 2500 miles ago, I didn't get much sympathy. Service rep offered me a 10% discount right away, but when I suggested that the problem might have been caused by their mechanic, she had to refer my case to her service manager who is supposed to contact me tomorrow. Meanwhile, they don't have the parts in stock so the waiting continues. Will keep you posted! You need to persists they screwed it up the shims do not come out if they are properly installed. It is not a valve guide that slipped it was a shim that they had their hands on when they adjusted the valves it was not installed properly the shims are too large to "slip" they sit inside a bucket that holds them in place the shim is larger that the valve clearance it is impossible for it to "slip". When the adjustment is done it requires a tool to depress the valve spring in order to get the shim out. Bottom line they need to fix it maybe you could offer them a 10% discount on what it's going to cost them to fix it! Do not let them get away with this they screwed up! It would be a good idea for you to be there with some one that knows those engines when they remove the head it it is possible that other damage was done more then likely bent valve not a burnt one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted September 9, 2014 Share Posted September 9, 2014 Yeah valve guide didn't slip. Shim slipped cause it wasn't installed correctly. Then valve way too tight and burnt quickly when you drove it. I'm thinking if they get in there they will hide their mistake. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted September 9, 2014 Author Share Posted September 9, 2014 UPDATE! I have been on a tirade all day with the dealership and with Toyota Customer Relations. Am encouraged at this point that something will be done about the large repair bill that accompanies putting our baby back together. Will keep you posted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 THE SAGA CONTINUES! After getting no calls from the dealer or anyone in the dealership at Halterman's Toyota, E. Stroudsburg, PA and after multiple emails from Toyota Cares (corporate customer service) the Toybox is still in the shop. I stopped by today to speak to the mechanic for the second time since the vehicle has been in the shop and found him running the engine and making final adjustments. I was thrilled to think we might be getting it back today. After waiting all day, I went back and found the engine torn down again. Mechanic reported that he could not get the idle right after replacing #6 burnt valve, so he did some more digging and found no compression on #3. He suspects this valve is also burnt and is in the process of replacing it. He said it was his bad and that if he had checked compression in the first place, he would have found this. Needless to say, I am beyond upset and hoping for the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 How far did you drive this thing after they "adjusted" the valves? It does take some time to burn valves. I still say the valves are not burnt they are bent because they collided with the pistons when the shims were out of place. His bad is right as you say it was running OK when you took it in two dead cylinders and the poor thing would not be able to get out of its own way. It is not an interference engine but if there is not clearance or negative clearance on the valves the story changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyboxII Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Hi Maineh--after the valve adjustment and major services were performed at a cost of $3000., it seemed much better. We drove it to Florida and back (2500) miles when it started with the rough idle. Everything seemed fine before I had the valves adjusted and I did this because of the mileage--just felt that it was good preventative maintenance and should be done. Guess the old saying that goes "if it ain't broke don't fix it" has some merit. Maybe I should have left well enough alone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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