Crooked Odyssey - Cab tilts down, coach tilts up!

[MattyBrown]

Hello everyone! Let me introduce myself. My name is Matt and I'm the proud owner of an '89 Leisure Odyssey, Mesa Lounge style. This RV has been my project for almost a year now. It had extensive water damage in the rear and required new wood framing and panels. I have finally reached a point where the rig is almost finished. There's not a speck of rotted wood to be found anywhere in this thing. I've refurbished almost every nook and cranny.

Here's my dilemma though: Now that its all legal and on the road I am noticing that when I park on relatively level ground, something doesn't look quite right about this rig! It was hard to notice on my slanted driveway (or perhaps I just blocked it out) but it appears the coach and cab are sort of cockeyed to each other! Has anyone ever experienced this before?

I feel like I've seen several pictures of other Toyota motorhomes that had this same thing going on, but most only slightly. But on mine (particularly the passenger side) it seems pretty intense depending on what angle its viewed from.

Here's some pics:

The interesting thing is that the cab/chassis frame underneath appears to be perfectly straight. It's not like there's a big kink to be seen anywhere. Does anyone have any theories about what's going on here? All I can say is that there's a LOT of weight in the rear of this rig. It was designed so that the generator, air conditioner, water tank and up to three passengers where ALL located BEHIND the the axle. Probably not the best idea. Over the years it seems to have warped the shape of the overall motorhome. It's strange though because there wasn't any water damage to be found in the middle of this rig, only in the rear and a corner of the cabover. All wood in the middle of the coach is rock solid, haven't had to replace any of it.

Just wondering if anyone else has ever experienced this and knows of a solution or at least a place to start.

One more note: Motorhome drives down the road perfectly straight and headlights are okay too. Perhaps a previous owner compensated for the tilt? Also, you are seeing the rig with about 80-90 PSI in the driver's side air bag (to help with genny, AC and full water tank) and probably 40-50 PSI in the passenger side.

Thanks so much!!!

-Matt

[waiter]

Wierd. It does appear as if the coach is sagging, The rear airbags look like they are fully extended ( I can see the leaf springs, and it looks like they are unloaded and have a nice bow in them.

If you can climb under there an measure the distance that the rear shocks are extended, may be we can get a couple comparisons

As you can see from the line I drew, you would need to pivot the rear of the coach up buy almost a foot to correct this.

Did you do a carfax on this to see if it was in a wreck?

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Maineah]

I agree with John every thing but the cab seems to be level. I think I would have a look at the front cab mounts. When you step back you can see the frame under the cab and it's fine but the back of the cab is higher then the front. If you look at some Toy home pictures you can see the frame all the way under the cabs and yours is hidden in the front.

[Skydancer2992]

At first appearance, looks like someone tried to improperly jack up the vehicle by placing the jack under the cab floor instead of under the frame, on the driver's side (look at wrinkle in the sheet metal at the bottom of the cab). The cab was bent upward without affecting the frame. The cab may have lifted enough to exert some upward pressure on the bottom of the overhead bunk, creating a slight moment arm on the overall camper body.

An understandable error as owners and mechanics that are used to unitized car bodies have a habit of placing a car jack under the steel ridge under the door vice of the box beam.

Looks like cosmetic damage and should not affect operation or the vehicle.

[MattyBrown]

Thank you folks very much for the replies so far.

Before I continue this discussion any further, would any of you be willing to snap some comparable photos of the sides of your motorhomes? I'd love to compare (especially the relationship of the frame to the cab). Most of the pictures I find online are taken from a front angle and its hard to compare.

Thanks!!

-Matt

[waiter]

Heres a photo of mine.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[DanAatTheCape]

sure looks crooked to me. I would check the mounts for the chassis to frame & for the cabin to the frame. A good look at the frame too.

[waiter]

Look at the rear springs. The top one is yours, the bottom one is mine.

I added another line to your photo, I believe this shows where the frame should be.

You might let all the air out of the bags and take another photo. I bet the cab would be level, but the coach would be dragging its butt.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[MattyBrown]

John, thanks so much for the pics. Holy crap, does my rig ever look crooked compared to yours! The only thing I should note is that the line showing the frame might not be entirely accurate because the rear bumper in mine appears to have been pushed up on that side. I took a pic to show that below (although it should also be noted that the coach also sags on that side a bit when no air is in the airbags).

Here's some more pics with 10PSI in both the driver and passenger side. I do agree with you that the problem is mostly the coach although I don't think the cab is perfectly straight either.

BOTTOM LINE: This thing is a mess. I'm thinking about taking it to a local RV collision specialist and seeing if they can pinpoint any areas where it can be straightened. I'll keep you all posted on that.

Thanks again to everyone for your input!

-Matt

[waiter]

I don't think its the frame, I base that on what I see with the rear springs. They seem to be correct.

The line I drew was based on the drivers door rocker panel lines, that should be parallel with the frame

Heres and idea. When your inside standing on the floor, do you have the same headroom up front as you do in the back.

I need to climb back under mine, I think the floor sits directly on the frame and isn't shimmed.

I'll take some photos of the undercarriage so you can see where the floor sits on the frame.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[waiter]

Karin, I agree. If its stabilized and doesn't present a safety issue (coach falling off as your cruising down the road. This might be something that needs to be lived with.

You said you did a lot of rot repair, As Karin asks, was any of that repair including the floor and wall junction?

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[MattyBrown]

Hey guys,

Sorry for the delay. Let me try to address the most recent messages in order.

John, the floor to ceiling is almost even across the coach but does lose about an inch in the rear. In the front it is about 75" (which, according to the sales brochure is exactly where it should be). In the back behind the axle it is about 74" so I did lose an inch somewhere along the way.

Karin, there was never any rot where the side meets the floor. The floors in this RV are what I would call "aged" wood but never rotted. All of the rot was in the rear ceiling and both side walls. When I took the panels off, this allowed the generator box to drop significantly (even with generator removed). Had to hold the box up with a jack while I reframed the wall. Everything was put back together right where it should be though, I tried to put everything back together exactly the way the camper was originally designed. There IS some slight warping/bowing of structures inside the coach but it is relatively mild. The floor in the back (after the axle) does seem to curve down very gradually, but it is very mild and hardly noticeable. One interesting thing though: when you first step inside the coach there is a soft spot in the wood floor. It is right in line with the door and in the center of the coach. I don't believe there is any water damage in this area, it feels almost like the floor has lifted slightly from the wood frame beneath it.

I have an appointment Monday with a guy from an RV collision shop in Lakeville, MA. I trust that given his experience he will be able to spot if there is anything going on underneath the rig vs. it just being the way the coach "settled" over the years. If this is simply the way the coach settled I will live with it. If anything can be done from the exterior I will definitely go for it.

Here's something interesting I just found on Google image search. Looks kinda similar to mine! This might just be what happens when an RV as heavy as the Odyssey is improperly maintained over the years.

Thanks for the input everyone! I'll let you know how I make out Monday!

-Matt

[86rader]

Looks to me as though the coach is sinking at the rear. This gives the impression that the cab is raising, but, I seriously doubt that is the case.

[MattyBrown]

Okay, so I went to the RV collision specialist yesterday.

He came out, shook my hand and looked under my motorhome (in the front near the cab) and said "This frame is in amazing shape for the year. I see nothing wrong."

I made him stand back and look at the shape of the motorhome. He went to the back and looked underneath and DID spot something not-quite-right.

Apparently, there is a kink in both rails of the frame in the rear, a little bit after the axle. It is very slight, but does cause a slight dip in the rear. Here's a graphic I made to illustrate the location:

I will take pictures of the bend so you can all see it, but I don't want to right now because it's raining cats and dogs. Again, it is very slight but definitely explains why the rear has dipped and probably contorted the rest of the coach along with it. I guess it's safe to say that this is the cause of the problem although I'm reluctant to say it's the whole problem. Just not sure.

I asked him if anything could be done. He said "No" and assured me that the frame was solid enough to support the coach safely and told me "Happy camping!' and that was it. I wish he had been a little more thorough but perhaps he saw everything he needed to see. He's the expert, not me.

Still, his "No" didn't quite sit right with me. I feel like there must be something I can do. I started entertaining an idea of jacking up the motorohome from the rear and seeing if it would straighten out the frame. Perhaps the weight of the coach would straighten it out and I could weld some additional supports in the back. Hold, on, made a graphic (I love my graphics!):

Whatcha think? Anyone got any ideas? I don't ever expect this rig to be perfectly straight again, but I'd love to feel like the back could withstand as many passengers as I might throw in it. Right now I will always have to feel like I'm making the problem worse. I'm up for any suggestions any of you can throw at me!

As always, thanks so much for your help.

-Matt

[waiter]

I don't think theres anything wrong with the frame. I base that on the rear springs. On mine, the coach is bolted to the frame. unbolt the coach, and put shims between the floor and the frame to raise the coach up off the frame. this would be 6 inches or more at the rear, and none in the front.

If your ever pass thru Ohio, I'd love to climb under the coach and se whats going on.

I think if the frame guy is happy, go camping.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[WME]

You won't be able to bend the frame back permintly without a lot of hydralic power. But your plan should give you some idea of how much things need to be adjusted. Just jack slowly and use lots of eyeball to check things.

Maybe unbolt the floor from the frame and install some sort spacer.

[DanAatTheCape]

I was looking at the diagram implying that one could jack the whole think by raising from the rear bumper ==== NOT!.

My frame is a box frame that basically stops aft of the rear leaf springs mounts. Then is U channel going the rest of the way.

I would check that frame carefully to see if it bent. If not then I would look at attachment points for the cab & cabin.

[MattyBrown]

Here are some pictures of what's going on back there from different angles (Right side harder to show because of exhaust position). NOTE THE "RIPPLES" HIGHLIGHTED WITH ARROWS:

Edited May 23, 2013 by MattyBrown

[waiter]

Good photos. Can you get some of the frame/floor in front of the rear axle, both sides.

I don't see any problems with the underside of the floor. The floor looks like its sitting on the frame and is not deformed, bowed, or bent.

As for the crumples. Ar ethese really crumples or is this where the original frame ended and the frame extensions were welded on to the original truck frame. My frame extensions are obviously different. They used a differnet size U channel.

ALSO - I wonder if the crumples are a result of a floor jack?

You said there is a slight bend at the crumple location, but that bend, does not account for the 8 - 10 inches of difference at the rear bumper if everything was lined up.

You also mentioned a slight difference in interior headroom between the front and the back, This tells me that the coach may be bent a very small amount (maybe an inch) I can also see a slight deformation of the drivers side wall, just above the big window.

My very first impression when I first read this thread was the same as Karins, Remove the graphics from the truck door,. Those lines don't line up and really enhances the drooping.

From what I've seen so far, AND, the fact that you have a photo of a similar model with the same problem. I say.

GO CAMPING

I would NOT start jacking the rear end and placing undue stress on the frame, you may wind up popping the windows and bowing the coach sides.

If it were mine, I would find a couple pieces of 2inch wide x 1/8 steel, and weld them across the bottom of the crumples. then make these an inspection point, if the new plates crumple, then you have a BIG problem. ( I doubt there is a problem with the crumple)

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[DanAatTheCape]

looking at the photos: does beams in the damaged area still form a straight line?

[WME]

The buckles are signs of being the inside radius on a compression bend. I.E. somebody put a ton of weight on the extensions.

You might be able to cut out the bad sections, jack up the rear until things are right and then weld a long L shaped renforcing plate on the side/bottom of the frame at the junction.