New plywood walls. Stain them?

[MontanaChinook]

I bought 1/4" oak plywood for the walls of the Chinook. Maybe a stupid question but should I stain them? I'd honestly prefer not to, but if that's not smart, then I will. I know nothing about staining wood, especially plywood.

Thanks!

[zero]

I bought 1/4" oak plywood for the walls of the Chinook. Maybe a stupid question but should I stain them? I'd honestly prefer not to, but if that's not smart, then I will. I know nothing about staining wood, especially plywood.

Thanks!

It depends on what you want the wood to look like. Stain highlights the grains and changes the overall color and appearance of the wood. I like using stain with red oak. Not with white oak. My concern when putting real wood in a motorhome is waterproofing it - or "stain-proofing" it. For that I use a satin polyurethane. It waterproofs and stain-proofs the wood but otherwise - leaves it looking like it does before you treat it. I use satin because I don't want the wood to be glossy. If you don't treat the wood with something, it will get stained whenever something gets spilled or rubbed on it.

If you ARE going to stain it - use a few test patches first and experiment. Some woods soak up stain fast and get too dark, too fast. They have to be semi-sealed before staining. White pine is one example. Not a problem with red or white oak though. Polyurethane is a cheap investment. Only place it's not good is where direct sunlight hits a lot which is mostly an exterior problem. Polyurethane gets broken down by sunlight and for sunny exterior use - marine-grade spar-varnish, or low viscosity epoxy is the way to go.

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Zach,

You can stain plywood just fine but I'd recommend a very light color if that's the way you want to go. Dark colors in small spaces like our Toyhomes tend to make the whole interior seem small or tight. I'd test whatever stain you decide on by coating a scrap piece of the same plywood as the interior. Be sure and look at the test piece in daylight as it'll give you the true value of the color.

Otherwise, try some water based, clear finish on a scrap piece and use two coats minimum for the best effect. I'd recommend a satin finish but that's just me. Check it out in daylight, too.

John

[zero]

Here's what my 1/4" hard maple panelling looked like bare and after two coats of clear satin polyurethane. Same with the floor which is 3/8" Douglas Fir plywood.

[MontanaChinook]

Thanks guys!

Looks great.

Yeah, I'm great with the light color of the oak as-is, but wanted to make sure I knew the reasons to stain or not stain. I'll just water proof it. Makes sense in case the windows leaked or anything like that happened.

Things are going to start moving fast on this thing soon! Made a trip to my bank savings account and bought all the rest of the stuff I need to really get the interior back together, instead of going paycheck by paycheck...

[MontanaChinook]

Seeing your photos makes me think...off topic, but I replaced my old Suburban heater. I know it works, but no idea if it leaks carbon monoxide or anything...

I was considering just taking it to the dump. If I were to sell, it, how should I advertise? Just "works"?

[MontanaChinook]

Ok, thanks.

I'll probably post it on craigslist later today or sometime tomorrow.

I used it once, but then I realized I had a propane leak at the regulator, so, no more propane usage until that's fixed. Worked great for the hour I used it.

[linda s]

Back to staining. Oak will get darker than most other woods just with polyurethane sealer. Also the best case scenario when rebuilding a toy home is to seal all wood surfaces before you install them. That water that leaks down from a bad window seal is going behind the paneling not just on the front. I seal all surfaces before installing any wood on my camper. Did the floor and varathaned all sides and edges before I screwed it down. Better safe than sorry

Linda S

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Linda, that's some good advice!

John

[MontanaChinook]

Yes, thank you. So that's just something I should be prepared for (oak getting darker), or is there something I can do about it? I like the light color...

[linda s]

Yes, thank you. So that's just something I should be prepared for (oak getting darker), or is there something I can do about it? I like the light color...

There are pretreatments for porus wood like oak at most hardware stores. Prevents the darker grain area from absorbing too much color. You must have some scraps left experiment first with them. If it still looks too dark to you can experiment with some whitewash look stains. make sure your happy before you commit.

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner

Linda S

[MontanaChinook]

Alright, thanks.

Yep, I definitely have scraps to test with.

[Maineah]

You might consider Polly urethane it does not change the color much and does a good job water proofing. I use the spar varnish (urethane). The white oak piece is untouched the box is varnished. If you wet the plywood with either a damp cloth or mineral spirits that is about the color it will be with varnish. The birch plywood under the box is varnished.

[zero]

Yes, thank you. So that's just something I should be prepared for (oak getting darker), or is there something I can do about it? I like the light color...

Not all oak is the same. Big difference between white oak, red oak, live oak, etc. When using stain - the softer and more porous the wood is - the darker it gets because it soaks up the coating like a sponge. That includes woods like basswood, poplar, white pine, red pine, etc. Red and White oak are not very porous and darken slowly (no controller needed). Red oak has a black grain that really responds well to stain and stands out. White oak not so much.

White and red oak and not very porous and darken slowly when using stain. White oak is also naturally rot resistant, unlike red oak. That's why white oak is used in boat building and making wine barrels.

Polyurethane has a yellowish tint that will show on any wood.

There are many choices for an "almost" clear finish. Polyurethane, low viscosity epoxy, spar varnish, ground-up lac beetles, etc.

Poly is usually the best for the buck as long as NOT in full time direct sunlight.

Someone mentioned using water-based which is fine for easy clean-ups. Not as durable as the conventional poly though. As anybody that refinishes floors for a living and they're apt to tell you that water-based poly wears out twice as fast. Good for business if you are a floor refinisher.

[Dolphinite no longer here]

JD, you might be right about the water-based poly not lasting as long, I just don't know for sure. I do know that I've had water-based poly on some tables, chairs, cabinets and stair railings in my house for at least ten ears and they're not showing any signs of ageing and are nice and glossy. I suppose floors get much harsher treatment than anything else in a building so they don't last as long but any finish that lasts ten years in a busy, year-round cabin should last at least that long in a Toyhome.

Another good thing about water-based finishes is that they dry in about an hour and one can usually get at least three coats on in one day. And the more coats, the longer the finish will last...

John

[Derek up North]

I'm sure the performance of water-based finishes is improving every year. What was applied 10 years ago (and performing well) is probably 'old school' now. Just like me!

[MontanaChinook]

Thanks everyone. I'll be making a stop at the hardware store today. I got red oak plywood. Hopefully I'll get to staining this week! Weather just took a cold, snowy turn...but we need the moisture so that's ok.

[zero]

JD, you might be right about the water-based poly not lasting as long, I just don't know for sure. I do know that I've had water-based poly on some tables, chairs, cabinets and stair railings in my house for at least ten ears and they're not showing any signs of ageing and are nice and glossy. I suppose floors get much harsher treatment than anything else in a building so they don't last as long but any finish that lasts ten years in a busy, year-round cabin should last at least that long in a Toyhome.

Another good thing about water-based finishes is that they dry in about an hour and one can usually get at least three coats on in one day. And the more coats, the longer the finish will last...

John

I'm sure the performance of water-based finishes is improving every year. What was applied 10 years ago (and performing well) is probably 'old school' now. Just like me!

I would not assume the new finishes all improve as time goes on, but I'm sure some do. The trick is having a way to know which ones. A friend of mine is a professional wall-paper hanger and painter. To him - paint and finishes are his whole life (it's a German thing). He constantly complains about how the formulas and characteristics constantly change on products due to the VOC regs. So, you use a product and learn from experience how good it is - but then the formula changes and doubt kicks in again.

But yes, as the poster mentioned - the water born stuff tends to flash dry and it's easy to do multiple coats in one day which is a nice plus. I just did my interior in my RV with oil-based poleyurethane and I had to wait a full 24 hours between coats and everything got three coats (except the floor). I did the floor with low viscosity epoxy. Much more durable then any polyurethane or varnish.

[zero]

Thanks everyone. I'll be making a stop at the hardware store today. I got red oak plywood. Hopefully I'll get to staining this week! Weather just took a cold, snowy turn...but we need the moisture so that's ok.

I wish I could of found some red oak plywood around here. I think red oak is one of the most beautiful native hardwoods. I cut my own and get it sawed locally. Most of our two houses are all red oak inside - except for the wideboard floors that are all southern yellow pine, 10" wide. I just cut a load of red oak logs and brought them to the mill yesterday, Just for 5/4" boards though, no plywood. Red oak has a very distinctive grain. If it was mine, I WOULD put a light stain on it and then seal it with poly. But that 's just a personal preference. I'm doing a bunch of woodwork now in my Chinook - cabinets mostly but I shied away from using red oak due to the weight. I'm using mostly marine-grade 4 ply Douglas Fir plywood which is $70 a sheet around here. I first did a search at all the local building supply stores and Home Depot and Lowes. None had any plywood worth using in my opinion. All their 3/8" was pine and only 3 ply. Useless for making cabinet doors.

[MontanaChinook]

Well, that's the nice thing about being ignorant like me! : )

I didn't know enough to get plywood worth using. I just bought the only 1/4" plywood they had that had a nice looking ply on one side. Turned out to be red oak. At least that's what it says. Much lighter than what you posted.

It was something like $27 a sheet. More than I wanted to pay, but the next step down had an unattractive grain, not meant to be seen, for $11. I almost went for it...but realized I'd be looking at those walls long after the pain in my bank account wore off...

So I bought the cheap stuff for the ceiling, which will be hidden under a thin piece of foam and some vinyl, and bought the oak for the walls.

[MontanaChinook]

And it looks like I'll be sanding. I went with clear, water based satin finish. Luckily once the windows and everything are cut out, there's not much wood left to stain!

Sounds like I should stain everything? Front back and sides of each panel? But I'll only worry about sanding the front.

[zero]

And it looks like I'll be sanding. I went with clear, water based satin finish. Luckily once the windows and everything are cut out, there's not much wood left to stain!

Sounds like I should stain everything? Front back and sides of each panel? But I'll only worry about sanding the front.

You've got me confused. Are you staining the wood and then putting poly over it? If so, just stain it where you're going to see it. The stain is more-or-less for appearance to highlight the grains of the wood. It is basically just a die. . It's purpose is not to waterproof or stain-proof the wood. The poly is to waterproof it and should be on both sides for the walls. As to sanding, that is optional. If you want a pefectly homogenous appearance then a light sanding is often done between coats. You might find it's fine with no sanding.

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Zach,

You can stain the edges and back, if you want, but only the part that shows is important. Be sure and coat all edges, backside and front with the polyurethane, though. That's your waterproofing agent, the polyurethane. As far as sanding goes, you won't have to do much. The first coat will raise the grain a little and you'll be able to feel it with your hand by just wiping over the surface with your palm. Succeeding coats won't raise the grain after the surface has been sealed with the first coat, so it gets easier from there.

Since the oak face is about as thick as a piece of paper and the stain won't like sanding very much, I'd just use 220 grit and your hand only-no power sanding of any kind. Just quickly wipe over the whole surface, sanding with the grain, with a quarter-sheet of 220 grit folded in thirds (saves paper), wipe down with a rag very lightly dampened with water to remove the dust and recoat again. Coats two through whatever, will only need a light hand sanding with 320 grit at most until you're satisfied with the final coat.

Or you could pop over to Kalispell and I'll give ya' a hand as long as you bring the designer beer...

John

[MontanaChinook]

I'm just mixing up my terms again based on lack of familiarity with...anything. I got a water based, clear protective coating. Not stain. And I'll do all the wood with it; front back and sides.

Thanks! I'll see how this goes. Once it warms up a little outside...

Designer beer?! You make it sound so fancy. It's just "good beer". There's a place for cheap, light, watery beer. Summertime when you just want a beer and don't care what it tastes like, as long as it tastes like beer. All other times, something with more flavor, or with actual flavor, is what I want. I'm pretty much a one or two beers at any one time guy these days, anyways, so it might as well be something good. We've got the (arguably) best brewery in the state right here in Helena (Blackfoot River Brewing), so it's easy to get spoiled!

If Kalispell were just a little closer I'd take you up on that! Quite possibly I'll be passing through the park and Whitefish sometime this summer, so if I do, I'll drop you a message and you might be able to see the (almost) final product of all this work! There'll be a couple loose ends to tie up on the Chinook over the next year, but it'll be functional and ready to camp by the end of May.

[zero]

Well, that's the nice thing about being ignorant like me! : )

I didn't know enough to get plywood worth using. I just bought the only 1/4" plywood they had that had a nice looking ply on one side. Turned out to be red oak. At least that's what it says. Much lighter than what you posted.

My plywood "complaint" isn't about the thin 1/4" stuff used for wall panelling (like you've got). I paid $22 a sheet for what I'm using from Lowes. The sell it as "Super-Ply" underlayment and it's some sort of undeclared hardwood. Looks like hard maple to me. Nice grain though and three genuine wood plies thoughout. Not crap-board with a paper-thin veneer like many.

My complaint is about finding plywood with any sort of structural integrity - for making cabinet doors, shelves, drawers, etc. I want to stick with 3/8" in an effort to keep the weight down. All the local plywood in 3/8" was only three-ply which makes it very weak. It all was also pine which makes it even weaker. I was kind of amazed to find even some 1/2" plywood at Home Depot that is also 3 ply (which is absurd). The more plies, the more strength. Opposing grains and glue is what gives plywood most of its integrity.

So again, I had to special order the plywood from a marine supply place. 3/8" A/B Douglas Fir, four-ply. Night-and-day difference from anything I could find locally. This 3/8" stuff is flatter and stronger then some of the 1/2" stuff. I'm not happy about the price at $62 per sheet but I'm only going to do once.

[MontanaChinook]

Wow, yeah, that's pricey. But I agree, it's worth it.

I'm trying my best to keep the weight down, too. Haven't decided on what to use for the cabinets yet. Might even go with some kind of thin, strong metal siding...we'll see. I don't expect that they'll take much abuse, but better to build stronger than I think is necessary, I guess.