Chains Required

[waiter]

FYI, on the subject of chains for all the folks who travel into the mountains once in their life. Good idea to carry chains in the winter. I keep mine in the MH year round, they are stuffed into the back of one of the compartments. You don't even want to know how much you'll pay for a set of cheap chains when the "Chains Required" signs go up.

During the winter, many roads will have chain requirements, These are generally,

1) you must poses chains (they don't need to be mounted, yet) in order to proceed.

2) You cannot proceed unless the chains are mounted.

For those rare Toyhouses that tow trailers, When chains are required, they usually require them on at least one of the trailer axles. You may hear the term "Drives and drags"

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[zero]

Same thing in my area. We have several roads that have signs posted requiring chains on at least one axle when the road is used between Nov 15 and April 1.. I keep a truck at my place all winter with chains on all four wheels. I only use it when all is sheer ice and nothing else can be driven. It can shake you to death if driven over 15 MPH.

[MontanaChinook]

I will be buying chains for my Chinook, but its kind of funny that I've lived in the mountains for the last 18 years, and have never owned chains or been turned away from a mountain pass for not having them. Is this an eastern thing? Or just a "higher population concentration" thing? Our passes get BAD sometimes. But pretty much...if you want to try it, go for it...seems to be the attitude.

I remember when I first moved to Utah, we tried to get into Yellowstone during an early season snowstorm, and they did turn us away at the gates. Flat ground. But I've never been stopped at a mountain pass.

[Derek up North]

Though I'm North of the Border, I've spent a fair bit of time in Northern NY and Vermont. Don't recall ever seeing any indication that chains were required by law. Only remember a couple of 'Gaps'/'Notches' in Vermont that they would give up on plowing and close the road.

The first time I ever heard of this whole 'chain law' was in the 'Nanny State' of California.

[waiter]

I never needed them here in Ohio, but when I travel and lived out on the west coast. I always kept a pair in my car and MH.

California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Utah, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, are places I've personally experienced it. usually the higher elevations, but I've seen them at lower elevations, ie.e Calif on I-80 between Sacramento and Reno, going over Donner pass. Even in Southern Calif, I-5 just north of LA, (gorman summit) between Gorman and Grapevine. (I think the elev is like 4000 ft, but when it snows, then it's either chains or park.

I believe there are a couple places in Wyoming along I-80. but usually I've seen them just shut the roads down until the storms pass and the snow plows can keep up..

I was going to post this on another thread where someone was asking about chains for Hankook tires. Figured I'd start a new thread.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[WME]

If your a big time winter operator, these are what you need, self applying chains

http://www.onspot.com/

[zero]

Though I'm North of the Border, I've spent a fair bit of time in Northern NY and Vermont. Don't recall ever seeing any indication that chains were required by law. Only remember a couple of 'Gaps'/'Notches' in Vermont that they would give up on plowing and close the road.

The first time I ever heard of this whole 'chain law' was in the 'Nanny State' of California.

One place we go every Fall to camp is the Cedar River Flow in Indian Lake, NY (Hamilton County, Adirondacks). All the roads there are posted requiring tire chains. We live 5 miles away at certain times of the year. We also own land in Jefferson County, NY (Tug Hill Plateau) where most of roads are owned by lumber companies and many are also posted for the tire-chain requirement.

Here's one of my RVs with 4WD, chains on all four wheels AND a snow plow. Not something you see often on an RV. 1986 turbo-diesel Chevy K5 Blazer with a pop-up roof camper made by Hallmark in Colorado. I had to beef up the axles and put in running gear from a 3/4 ton truck. So originally it had a 10 bolt rear, 15" tires on 6 lug rims and 3.08 ratio axles. It now has a 14 bolt semi-floating rear, 16" tires on 8 lug rims, and 3.73 ratio axles with OD. Before and after doing sheet metal work and a not-so-good paint job with my $10 Harbor Freight spray gun. When I get my Toyota Chinook done, I might get rid of the Hallmark, We'll see. I pretty much fed up with diesel costing 40-50 cents more per gallon then regular gas and being hard to find in many remote places.

[zero]

Though I'm North of the Border, I've spent a fair bit of time in Northern NY and Vermont. Don't recall ever seeing any indication that chains were required by law. Only remember a couple of 'Gaps'/'Notches' in Vermont that they would give up on plowing and close the road.

When I lived in Albany Vermont (Northeast Kingdom near the Canuk border) approx 1/3 of all the town roads were non-maintained Dec 1 to April 1. No plowing, no nothing. Go at your own risk. The entire "road department" for the Town of Albany was put out on bid every year and whoever got the bid - became the "road department." When I was living there was was a local farmer who had the bid. The "road department" was two town trucks parked outside at his farm. The guy before him froze to death repairing one of the trucks (seems to have fallen asleep outside).

Where I live now - we have a dozen "seasonal roads" that get no maintenance during the winter with "drive at your own risk" signs. I'm living on one. I also cannot get US Mail delivery here.

[Derek up North]

But do they ticket you if you don't have them! From what I've read, in California they set up road block to ticket you if you're driving without them?

[zero]

Here is what is posted on the Website for the Cedar River Flow area where tire chains are mentioned (Moose River Plains area, Adirondacks). NO RVs allowed during the cold season. The posted signs that are there are a bit more specific and militant.

"Season and vehicle use restrictions apply. Public vehicular traffic along the Moose River Plains Road is welcome usually from Memorial Day to the close of deer hunting season each year. The speed limit is 15 MPH and I would suggest you don't go any faster unless you want to destroy your car. There are rocks sticking out of the road, sometimes when you least suspect it.

There are two entrances for the main Moose River Plains Road, one near Inlet off Limekiln Road and the other at Wakely Dam Recreational Area at the end Cedar River Road. There are a few main side roads that branch off the main Moose River Plains Road. These branch roads include Rock Dam Road, Otter Brook Road and Indian Lake Road.

Mountain bike and foot traffic is welcome year-round. There is an entrance gate registration required. Travel is restricted to passenger cars and trucks up to and including one-ton capacity. It is recommended that after October 1 and if there is snow is on the ground, all vehicles entering the area, unless four-wheel drive, should have tire chains. RVs and trailers are permitted Memorial Day - Labor Day respectively. No motorcycles or all-terrain vehicles are permitted on the Moose River Plains Road.

Wildlife is abundant. Visitors may be rewarded with sights of black bear, white-tailed deer, beaver, otter, mink, red and gray fox, moose, and bobcat. Bird watching is popular in the area as well offering glimpses of warblers, flycatchers, great blue heron, common loon and a variety of raptors and owls.

[zero]

But do they ticket you if you don't have them! From what I've read, in California they set up road block to ticket you if you're driving without them?

They can ticket you for anything in NY. The question is - do they want to bother and will you be found guilty? NY motor-vehicle law says a driver most operate a vehicle safely according to road conditions. MV law also states a driver is required to have the MV under full control all the time. So, sliding or spinning out in ice and snow is technically against the law. Even getting stuck on a public highway is against the law. Police are exempt because New York laws states that police cars are not motor vehicles and are therefor not subject to motor vehicle laws.

On my road - I wish somebody WOULD give tickets or block people from travelling the road I own and live on. Every winter there are new idiots sliding off the road and getting stuck by my house. I seem to live in the "magic" spot on the mountain where people lose control. None of them need to use this road when things are bad. I am the only one that MUST use it since I live here. 30 years ago nobody would consider driving here without tire chains. Now? People seem to think it is their right to drive anywhere, anytime, in any vehicle regardless of the time of year. And if there is snow an ice on the road - and they get in trouble - somebody needs to be sued. Same with the annual jerks that drive up in some remote region of the Adirondacks without even a coat - get stuck - freeze to death - and then the family blames AT&T or Verizon for not providing cell phone service there.

[MontanaChinook]

Yes, I'll be getting chains for my new Hankooks (they show up today!) very soon, and it's a good topic.

MT/ID they'll typically shut down the road. But most passes I drive locally don't have gates, and I've never seen them shut down.

There are only four ways out of town, and only one of them isn't a mt pass. And that one way usually has the worst road conditions.

I was surprised at the roads in the winter when I first moved here. They rarely plow most of them, all winter, and this is a town of 30,000. Two wheel drive vehicles don't do so well. My Subaru, in 4wd, with four studded snow tires is the best vehicle I've found for our conditions, short of a snowmobile.

[zero]

Yes, I'll be getting chains for my new Hankooks (they show up today!) very soon, and it's a good topic.

MT/ID they'll typically shut down the road. But most passes I drive locally don't have gates, and I've never seen them shut down.

There are only four ways out of town, and only one of them isn't a mt pass. And that one way usually has the worst road conditions.

I was surprised at the roads in the winter when I first moved here. They rarely plow most of them, all winter, and this is a town of 30,000. Two wheel drive vehicles don't do so well. My Subaru, in 4wd, with four studded snow tires is the best vehicle I've found for our conditions, short of a snowmobile.

There is something almost "magical" about Subarus, Maybe they made a deal with the devil. Any of my Subarus can go -and stop - on roads that other AWDs and 4WDs spin out on with studded snows or those special soft "studless" tires. I've had 4WD and AWD Subarus and never had one yet that wasn't fantastic on ice and snow. Maybe it's because they have that engine sticking way ahead of the front axle? After driving Loyale 4WD wagons for years - I picked up a 1990 Justy 4WD. The last of a real utilitarian Japanese 4WD car. Also the last in the US to have a carburetor. But it was like a little roller skate and I thought for sure it would be a death-trap on ice. NOPE. Just as good as the others. I've had days when I just backed my Geo 4WD Tracker, Kia Sportage, or 4WD pickup truck onto the road -I'd start sliding down the hill sideways. Not the Subarus.

To bad Subarus are no longer made or marketed to be "utilitarian." They gone downhill in my opinion and gotten "foofy." The "Subaru love" commericals are enough to make a maggot puke (as my dad used to say). I drove a new AWD Subaru recently and also a new Ford Escape AWD. If I was offered one or the other - I'd take the Ford Escape. Great handling, great power from that four cylinder engine and 6 speed auto trans and 30 MPG highway. My 80s-90s Loyale 1.8 liter 4WD wagons (if standard shift) got 30 MPG in summer driving and 24 MPG most winters. My newest (2002) Subaru Impreza Outback with a 2.5 has gotten a best of 25 MPG and gets 20-21 MPG all winter. Gobs of power though. In my humble opinion, the state of Vermont changed Subarus. All the hippies moved up there in the 70s and loved them. Now that are adults or old geezers with ponytails (going by age) and seem the be the target group for Subaru and Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Maybe I sound a bit "Subaru" bitter and that's probably because I am. When they made a 4WD station-wagon with a hi-low range transmission (i.e. 10 speeds) and an on-board air adjustable suspension system - they really had something unique. I guess I'm turning into a old Luddite.

[MontanaChinook]

Oh I hear you. I feel the same way about Toyotas.

But yeah. I've had an 87 GL Wagon, and my current 93 Loyale. It will be sad day when they're gone...they absolutely do just STICK to the road. And the GL Wagon, with 4low, was amazing.

Luckily they're still around, out here. There are even a few early 80s wagons around town in pretty nice shape with the EA81. There's an awesome lifted Brat driving around town . Lifted just enough to put truck tires on (look like 31x10.50s), and it looks just like a nice little truck, and you'd think it was if you didn't know better. Not sure If raising the center of gravity up that high starts defeating the whole purpose though, in snow anyway.

[zero]

Oh I hear you. I feel the same way about Toyotas.

But yeah. I've had an 87 GL Wagon, and my current 93 Loyale. It will be sad day when they're gone...they absolutely do just STICK to the road. And the GL Wagon, with 4low, was amazing.

Luckily they're still around, out here. There are even a few early 80s wagons around town in pretty nice shape with the EA81. There's an awesome lifted Brat driving around town . Lifted just enough to put truck tires on (look like 31x10.50s), and it looks just like a nice little truck, and you'd think it was if you didn't know better. Not sure If raising the center of gravity up that high starts defeating the whole purpose though, in snow anyway.

I've got over a dozen 4WD Loyale wagons parked in my field. All were still running when junked. Rust did them all in. Usually the rear crossbar snaps in two, the rear tire rubs and it can't be driven anymore. I was saving them for years for spare parts if I ever found another Loyale worth buying. Nope. Not around here. And the few southern ones I've found weren't 4WD so I've pretty much given up. My fleet will be going to the scrapyard next summer. My newest is a 1993 that broke the rear frame last spring - just after I put four brand new studded 13" tires on it and a new clutch. What a shame.

[waiter]

My experience with the west coast, They have three stages,

1) Carry chains, your stopped at a checkpoint and asked if you have chains. (I've never had to show them),

2) You must have chains installed (Drives and drags - one set on the drive axle, and one set on the trailer), A highway patrol at the check point will not allow you to proceed unless you have chains installed.

3) closed, gates closed or hiway patrol blocks road. Generally this is when someone who doesn't have chains is now stuck and they get a road grader to pull them up the hill. or the snow is so bad, the plows cannot keep up.

One of the neat things I seen in Oregon ( I also seen this in Alaska on the Dalton) There are special trucks with large vertical bumper bars on front, and a block of cement on the back that must weigh 20 tons, These are usually owned by the large trucking companies (jbhunt, schnieder, wiener, etc) when one of their company trucks start spinning out on the upgrades (even with chains) these guys pull up behind them and push.

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[BobBeery]

About 40 years ago I drove Michigan-New-York City-Michigan. On the return trip there was very heavy snow and at the Pennsylvania Turnpike on-ramp booths any car without chains mounted was turned away. I had to buy some very expensive cheap chains to get home.

[5Toyota]

EASTERN THING CHAINS ? I LIVE IN WASHINGTON STATE WE HAVE MANY CASCADE MTN PASSES WHEN THE CHAINS SIGN IS UP YOU BETTER HAVE THEM ON FOUR WHEAL DRIVE IS EXMPT MUST BE IN GEAR .YOU WILL GET A TIKET IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY ON. TOLD TO TURN AROUND IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY WITH YOU.AND IF YOU CAUSE AN ACCIDENT because YOU WERE NOT CHAINED UP A TIKET AND ALL LIABILTY

[5Toyota]

A TOY HOUSE MIGHT NOT QUALIFY BUT WHEN SNOW TIRES ARE REQUIRED ON SMALL VECQULES TRUCKS OVER 10.000 lbs are required to chain up. THOSE OF YOU THAT KNOW WHITE PASS IN WASH I DROVE IN HEAVY SNOW FROM the chain on sign at GLENOMA ALL WAY OVER SUMMIT TO RIMROCK TO remove them in my toyota wagen a few years ago.

[MontanaChinook]

I guess it's just not a Montana thing!

Or Eastern Idaho. Or Rural Utah.

I would guess that if I more regularly drove major interstates, over mountain passes in the winter, I would have run into this at some point. But where I mostly drive, I guess they just don't do it.