Derek up North Posted February 5, 2013 Share Posted February 5, 2013 But not cheap. http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/rvs/3586829819.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Neat looking rig. I could see $5000 maybe. $15,000 is ridiculous in my opinion . . but who knows. Maybe he'll find somebody with money to burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 4x4 Sunraders normally go for 17 to 18 grand. This looks to be in perfect condition and I would say he's right in the ball park on price. This can go a lot of places a 4x4 Sunrader can't. The Expedition Portal guys are not afraid to spend 250,000 on an Earthroamer or Tiger. This is pocket change Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 . This can go a lot of places a 4x4 Sunrader can't. Linda S So can a $1000 4WD pickup truck with a $500 camper on the back. But "worth" is determined by how much money someone is willing to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Worth is determined by market forces, supply and demand. If an object is less common and more desirable it has more worth. It's no secret a diesel motor costs more than a gas. This rig is a deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 Worth is determined by market forces, supply and demand. If an object is less common and more desirable it has more worth. It's no secret a diesel motor costs more than a gas. This rig is a deal. Yes, supply and demand - plus ability and willingness to pay a certain price. There in nothing highly valuable in regard to the Toyota diesel. The engines can be bought for $1500-$2000. Chinook pop-ups are often available for next to nothing if the trucks they sit on are bad. Even running Chinooks rarely sell for over $2000 unless in perfect condition. If I had a good running mid-80s Toyota diesel mini-truck with 4WD - it would probably sell for $3000-$4000 here in NY.That's if rust free. The last diesel Toyota diesel truck I owned sold for $800 (2WD and non-turbo). The 80s Toyota diesel mini-trucks were dogs as compared to the Isuzus and Mitsubishis at the time. I bought my 1985 Isuzu 4WD mini-truck with a 2.2 diesel for $500 and it ran perfect when I got it and had less then 100K miles. To me the math does not add up. Take a $1000 Chinook and stick it on a $4000 truck and somehow it's worth $14,000-$20,000? The Chinook in the ad certainly looks nice but the quality of the mechanical work is not verified and the work done to the camper itself certainly isn't anything special or unique. It probably goes down the road slower then a stock Chinook with a 2.2 gas engine. If the "supply and demand" dictates that this thing is worth up to $20,000 (as the seller claims) seems people would be building them all over the place. Lot of cheap Chinook pop-ups around. I've been offered several for free -but they are on the west coast that does me no good. Maybe my turbo-diesel 4WD Blazer-Hallmark RV and my turbo-diesel Blazer-Chalet RV are then worth $14,000 each also I suppose? I really doubt it. Especially since diesel fuel now is often 50 cents more per gallon then regular gas. That removes some of the potential gain of owning a diesel. In regard to 4WD Sunraders. There was one on Ebay last summer. The bidding never got past $7000 and the auction got pulled. I have no idea what the seller's reserve was - but nobody threw $14,000 at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The 2L-T is a 2.4 L (2,446 cc) turbo version of the 2L still being produced since 1985. The bore and stroke are the same but the 2L-T has a compression ratio of 20:1. Output is 85 hp (63 kW) at 4,000 rpm with 139 ft·lb (188 N·m) of torque at 2,200 rpm. Applications: Hilux Cresta Super Custom Land Cruiser 1984–1990 Blizzard LD20 (85 hp/63 kW at 4,000 rpm, 19.2 kg·m/188 N·m, 20.0:1)[3] 2000–2006 Metrocab TTT 67 kW (90 hp)[4] interesting... still in production; must not be all that bad... The camper on this is small. I bet it runs fine. Looks clean and rebuilt. there is also the time value of money aka Labor...sure I can take a camper shell and drop it on a truck swap in parts rebuild everything to perfection; but at that point I have created value; because hey, most chinooks are in pieces on the garage floor and months or years, cuts, scrapes, bleeding and cursing away from being as this one is. The Iphone 5 is just a lump of all but a $100 of parts; but once those folks in the china factories put them together it becomes a magical $860 phone. So to me the math is just fine; of course I have been known to subscribe to that "new fangled math" from time to time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 http://www.toyotadiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?4758-Mileage-on-a-2lt seems most folks with this motor as a truck get 25-28 MPG. Not bad. As a camper I bet it could consistently get 20 -23 and has more torque than a gasser.. We dont use these things for speed last time I checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The 2L-T is a 2.4 L (2,446 cc) turbo version of the 2L still being produced since 1985. The bore and stroke are the same but the 2L-T has a compression ratio of 20:1. Output is 85 hp (63 kW) at 4,000 rpm with 139 ft·lb (188 N·m) of torque at 2,200 rpm. Applications: Hilux Cresta Super Custom Land Cruiser 1984–1990 Blizzard LD20 (85 hp/63 kW at 4,000 rpm, 19.2 kg·m/188 N·m, 20.0:1)[3] 2000–2006 Metrocab TTT 67 kW (90 hp)[4] interesting... still in production; must not be all that bad... The camper on this is small. I bet it runs fine. Looks clean and rebuilt. there is also the time value of money aka Labor...sure I can take a camper shell and drop it on a truck swap in parts rebuild everything to perfection; but at that point I have created value; because hey, most chinooks are in pieces on the garage floor and months or years, cuts, scrapes, bleeding and cursing away from being as this one is. The Iphone 5 is just a lump of all but a $100 of parts; but once those folks in the china factories put them together it becomes a magical $860 phone. So to me the math is just fine; of course I have been known to subscribe to that "new fangled math" from time to time I had two Toyota diesel mini-trucks. Both were 1982s. That was when diesel was cheaper then regular gas (if street legal) and farm diesel was sometimes half the price of gas. Those diesels were probably converter gas engines. That was the norm in 80s. Most Japanese small diesels were built on gas engine formats and that way they were direct bolt-in replacements for gas engines. Nisan, Isuzu, Volkswagen, et. al. all did it. When Ford introduced its first full size diesel truck - with the International Harvester diesel - it too was built on a gas engine platform and not a distinct HD diesel. All pretty good engines though. The only bad gas-to-diesel I know of that was sold in the USA was the series of Oldsmobile diesel V8s and V6s. For some reason, Toyota pulled out of the small truck diesel market early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 http://www.toyotadiesel.com/forums/showthread.php?4758-Mileage-on-a-2lt seems most folks with this motor as a truck get 25-28 MPG. Not bad. As a camper I bet it could consistently get 20 -23 and has more torque than a gasser.. We dont use these things for speed last time I checked. Power and torque are not that far apart between a carbed 2.4 gasser and a turbo-2.4 diesel and they both make peak torque at the same RPMs. If I had a Chinook with a gas engine and also a Chinook with the diesel - the cost for fuel per miles were be near the same. That with 20 MPG for the gasser and 25 MPG for the diesel (which I doubt). The gas engine has more horsepower and RPM range whereas the diesel has slightly more foot-pounds of max torque. The extra cost of the diesel negates the 20-30% difference in fuel consumption. That and overall - yes - a diesel does cost more to maintain and is more prone to heat-damage when "lugged" as is often done in an underpowered RV. When I had my Toyota diesel 2WD trucks - they tended to average around 32 -34 MPG. When I got my 1985 Toyota with the 2.4 gasser and the cheap 4 speed (no OD) it got 28-29 MPG. Today the gas truck would be cheaper to drive with the cost of fuel plus the diesel MPGs would be 5% less due to less BTU energy in the new low-sulfur diesel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted February 6, 2013 Author Share Posted February 6, 2013 http://s440.beta.photobucket.com/user/crazybushman/library/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I was good friend's with the owner of a Toyota dealership back in the 80's and he gave me a new diesel to drive neat little truck sipped fuel but oh my God be sure you had lots of room to pass any one. The turbo addition had about the same power as the gas one so that one maybe do able but the little 60 horse one may set all time records for slow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 The Sunrader 4x4 on ebay last summer was pulled because it sold. It belonged to a friend of mine. he sold it for 18,500. They are very much in demand and always have lots of buyers waiting for one to show up on the market. Most people don't have your mad skills JD. I would expect if someone had to pay a custom rv shop to put the Chinook on the diesel truck it would cost 10 grand at least. Add the new interior and you've added another 5 grand to the price. There was a custom Sunrader 4x4 on this site a while ago. and I think he paid in excess of 20 grand for the work they did on his coach. Your labor is worth more than you think Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted February 6, 2013 Share Posted February 6, 2013 I agree with Linda; JD's chinook will be so awesome when done it could fetch nearly the same. I wonder how many vehicles he has let go that he improved for ridiculously cheap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajadulce Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 To me the math does not add up. Take a $1000 Chinook and stick it on a $4000 truck and somehow it's worth $14,000-$20,000? Ya agree that's a tuff one to evaluate. 10K worth of labor could be a steal, a rip-off, or fair depending on what and who did it. I'd imagine something like Nolan's rigs are easily worth $20K+ labor if not more. I've seen a few "shells" on Craig's list and have been tempted ... but then woke up. If I had the space and didn't live in such a yuppie neighborhood, I'd prob go for it for fun. My neighbors would freak tho if I brought another rig home. I'm sure they've had enough of my last camper project to last a lifetime. There was a custom Sunrader 4x4 on this site a while ago. and I think he paid in excess of 20 grand for the work they did on his coach If you're referring to this one, he spent 80K. Worth it? It's all relative. If he get's plenty of use out of it before his time is up on this planet, then who cares it's just money (assuming it didn't break his wallet). btw: The owner (or rather Father of owner) of this rig for sale is a member of this forum. I've seen posts from him describing that very same truck/camper and more details. Just can't remember his member name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 The Sunrader 4x4 on ebay last summer was pulled because it sold. It belonged to a friend of mine. he sold it for 18,500. They are very much in demand and always have lots of buyers waiting for one to show up on the market. Most people don't have your mad skills JD. I would expect if someone had to pay a custom rv shop to put the Chinook on the diesel truck it would cost 10 grand at least. Add the new interior and you've added another 5 grand to the price. There was a custom Sunrader 4x4 on this site a while ago. and I think he paid in excess of 20 grand for the work they did on his coach. Your labor is worth more than you think Linda S Keep in mind I'm in a rural area of NY where the "rich and affluent' don't reside. At least not the ones that want to buy off-road RVs. Things also get rusty quick here so diesels engine with fairly low miles show up for sale when the trucks rot out. No way any Sunrader would bring that kind of money around here. I've passed up a few unaltered Sunraders for $1800. Good running, some rust - but not real bad. I've come across four Sunraders just in the past few months in the price ranges of $1200 to $2500. Seem if things sell that high in other parts of the country - someone could have a 'cottage industry" buying up Chinooks and Sunraders and sticking them on to 4WD trucks and double-triple their money? Wouldn't fly here but maybe in parts of the country where people have more money to burn. I was just checking out a pair of them for $5000 total that sit next to friends house - but that's west-coast Florida and not NY. If they were closer I'd bought one and sold the other. No rust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 I was good friend's with the owner of a Toyota dealership back in the 80's and he gave me a new diesel to drive neat little truck sipped fuel but oh my God be sure you had lots of room to pass any one. The turbo addition had about the same power as the gas one so that one maybe do able but the little 60 horse one may set all time records for slow. I'm kind of surprised that the 2LT Toyota diesel has such a low horsepower and max torque rating. I suspect that is due to the high compression ratio and somewhat wasteful indirect-injection. When a diesel has a high mechancial compression ratio - high turbo boost cannot be used since boost creates an even higher "effective" compression ratio. High power direct-injection diesels often come with mechanical CRs of 18 to 1, not 22 to 1. I don't know much about the turbo version but I suppose it was built on a gas-engine platform and not durable enough for high power and boost. Isuzu tried it for awhile on their 2.2 diesel in the 80s with mild-boost and those are the only 2.2 Isuzu diesels I've seen blown to pieces. I had a couple of non-turbo diesel Toyotas. Durable dogs - just like the NA Isuzu 2.2s used in mini-truck and mid-sized trucks. But compared to a Chevy S10 Blazer with the 2.2 diesel - the Toyota, Isuzu, LUV, and Ram-50s were "rockets." I love my diesel 85 Isuzu 4WD but also know I'd hate it fast with the Chinook on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 not surprising to me assuming the stats are correct; 2LT stats are very similar to an ALH TDI... 20:1 on the 2LT where the ALH is 19.5:1. 85 HP on the 2LT and 90HP on the ALH. The neat thing about this is that I had wanted to try a TDI in a toyhome and everyone said it wouldn't be good enough. I agree with that now; but maybe it would work for the 18' or the chinook? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted February 7, 2013 Share Posted February 7, 2013 not surprising to me assuming the stats are correct; 2LT stats are very similar to an ALH TDI... 20:1 on the 2LT where the ALH is 19.5:1. 85 HP on the 2LT and 90HP on the ALH. The neat thing about this is that I had wanted to try a TDI in a toyhome and everyone said it wouldn't be good enough. I agree with that now; but maybe it would work for the 18' or the chinook? Considering the ALH is a lot smaller then the 2.4 liter Toyota 2LT - I assume it must be running a lot more boost. It would probably be a good engine in a Chinook. I'd want something bigger in a 6000 lb. or more motorhome. The Isuzu and Cummins 3.9 liter diesels have been used in many motorhomes - even the huge Class As. Many of the Class As that came new with GM 6.2 liter diesels got got converted to 3.9T and had more power, better MPGs and were more reliable. And those 3.9s are sort of old-tech diesels. I suppose there are newer lighter ones now that have a lot of power. Price is the problem - at least with me. Even the older 3.9Ts are still bringing $1500-$3000. GM and Toyota (I think) had been working on a new diesel engine that runs on gasoline. Don't know what became of it. At first glance you wouldn't think this thing has a four-banger in it . . http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SAFARI-TREK-Pathfinder-Edition-ISUZU-4-cylinder-DIESEL-14-15-MPG-/261163508328?pt=RVs_Campers&hash=item3cce8ee268 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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