New super boon-docking RV (not Toyota but gives ideas)

[zero]

I was just reading about the new RoadTrek Eco RV. Pretty amazing (so is the price tag). Give some ideas on what can be done with batteries, solar power, roof-top AC without using the generator, etc. Some of these idea might work in a Toyota.

" The E-Trek uses solar power, fuel cell power and uses the existing bio diesel engine of the vehicle in order to provide more power than has ever been provided to the Class B RV before. This allows the owner to stay out in the field, not connected to shore power, for much longer periods of time.”

You can even run the interior air conditioner while you’re going down the road, without having to power up a generator.

The 240 watt solar panel just needs daylight to generate power, not direct sunlight. You can run the DVD, TV and all interior LED lights just off the soar power. Pretty much indefinitely."

"The E-Trek is all electric. It has no propane, needs no external generator. Instead, it provides all the juice you need through an advanced generator system that runs off the vehicle engine, aided by a solar panel and optional fuel cells."

"They’ve removed the old gas burners and put in an instant-on all electric induction stovetop."

http://roadtreking.com/roadtreks-new-rs-e-trek-is-perfect-for-boondocking/

[zero]

Some more specs:

"There is no propane system or conventional generator. Heat comes from an industry-leading Webasto diesel powered combination water heater and furnace. Electrical power generation is provided by a 3500W generator/alternator mounted to the van’s diesel engine that can charge eight dead auxiliary batteries in only 40 minutes. Supplemental power comes from a 240W solar charging system and an optional 100W EFOY methanol fuel cell generator. For less weight and even faster charging times, three lithium ion batteries are optional.

All this reserve power is stored in up to eight 6V AGM batteries (1600 amp. hours) and distributed directly to 12V lights and appliances and through a 5000W inverter to 110V appliances like the air conditioner, inductive stove, instant drinking water heater and convection/microwave oven. The system features surge protection and power monitoring.

Just imagine the possibilities. If you don’t need air conditioning, you can go for days without an external electrical connection (shore power). And when your batteries do run low, you can charge them up fully by simply idling the engine for 30-40 minutes using less fuel than a conventional generator to do the same task. Plus the engine has pollution controls while a conventional generator does not. Just eliminating the propane generator has a big impact on the environment.

When it is hot, the auxiliary batteries will run the 110V air conditioner with the compressor on for over 9 hours – and longer under normal use when the compressor runs only intermittently. No more dry camping on hot nights with the generator running all night! You can run the 110V air conditioner with the engine mounted generator for supplemental cooling while driving – for much less than the cost of running a conventional generator. Plus you avoid the maintenance required on a conventional generator. Enjoy comfort heating without the noise of a propane furnace. And never refill a propane tank again! "

http://www.roadtrek.com/etrek.aspx

[douglitas]

I've been thinking about the engine mounted auxiliary alternator for awhile now. the description above sounds like a dream..charge your batteries in 40 minutes from an idling engine! I went to the linked site but didn't see any specifics of what alternator was used or how it was mounted. but I'll keep looking! thanks for the link.

[douglitas]

Here's the plan for my NCV3 Sprinter van. It is equipped with a high-output 220 amp alternator (NAFTA Option Code BAJ). Power from the alternator will flow through a isolator/combiner to a pair of 12v AGM deep-cycle batteries (the auxiliary batteries). These batteries will be wired in parallel. The batteries will be connected to a 12 volt distribution system (bus bars and fuses) and to a 2,000 watt inverter/charger. The inverter/charger will have a 120v AC feed from a 30amp shore power connector. The AC output of the inverter will feed into a distribution panel with circuit breakers for each of the major appliance circuits. I will also have a smaller inverter with a dedicated outlet, probably a 400 or 600 watt model connected to the 12v system. When I need a small amount of AC power to run a laptop or watch TV, it will be more efficient to just use the small inverter, rather turn on the large inverter which feeds the major appliances, such as the microwave oven, 120v hot water heater, and Danhard AC. The larger inverter will have a significantly greater low-load power draw than the smaller inverter. I also plan to install a Xantrex LinkPro battery monitor that keeps track of all power into and out of the auxiliary batteries. The LinkPro acts as a very accurate fuel gauge for the batteries, it lets me program some low-discharge level alarms, and it keeps a history of discharge statistics. I've not used the LinkPro previously, but it looks like a good fit for my requirements. I will not use a vehicle-mounted generator. No solar panels, either. The primary uses of van will be as a daily driver, weekend tailgater, and long-distance touring van. I ran around the US and Canada for six years in a Class C RV, so I have very firm requirements for the new van.

Brian

http://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7333

also found this:

http://compare.ebay.com/like/261089541087?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar

Edited February 2, 2013 by douglitas

[zero]

I've been thinking about the engine mounted auxiliary alternator for awhile now. the description above sounds like a dream..charge your batteries in 40 minutes from an idling engine! I went to the linked site but didn't see any specifics of what alternator was used or how it was mounted. but I'll keep looking! thanks for the link.

The size of the alternator needs to be matched to the size of the battery bank. That RoadTrek has a 1600 amp-hour bank. A single type 29 battery like often used in Toyota RVs is less then 1/13 th of that size. A modern 160 amp alternator that is not much bigger then the stock 45 or 60 amp unit in a Toyota is 2200 watts. That's what I have in my 22R now (Toyota Chinook). It will charge 50 amps with the engine just idling. That will charge a type # 29 deep-cylce battery in one hour and faster if the engine is revved up.

The "hurdle" with mounting a big alternator in a Toyota is the belt-drive. Stick in a 160 amp alternator and it allow a 50-60 amp charge at engine idle and that works fine. But if you wanted to actually use it a higher speed and a 160 amp output - a single V-belt is not enough. It needs two belts (or a serpentine drive).

[zero]

RE to Douglitas citation . . . "Here's the plan for my NCV3 Sprinter van. It is equipped with a high-output 220 amp alternator (NAFTA Option Code BAJ). Power from the alternator will flow through a isolator/combiner to a pair of 12v AGM deep-cycle batteries (the auxiliary batteries). These batteries will be wired in parallel. The batteries will be connected to a 12 volt distribution system (bus bars and fuses) and to a 2,000 watt inverter/charger. The inverter/charger will have a 120v AC feed from a 30amp shore power connector. The AC output of the inverter will feed into a distribution panel with circuit breakers for each of the major appliance circuits. I will also have a smaller inverter with a dedicated outlet, probably a 400 or 600 watt model connected to the 12v system. When I need a small amount of AC power to run a laptop or watch TV, it will be more efficient to just use the small inverter, rather turn on the large inverter which feeds the major appliances, such as the microwave oven, 120v hot water heater, and Danhard AC. The larger inverter will have a significantly greater low-load power draw than the smaller inverter"

My take on some of it . .

In regard to a Toyota with a single V-belt drive - a 220 amp alternator will slip when run past 100 amp output (or somewhere around there). The big advantage to installing a high-amp alternator is 50-60 amps it can put out when the engine is idling.

In a high amp charge setup I'd never use a rectifier-type isolator A relay/combiner, yes.

The idea of two (or more) inverters can be fine but you cannot assume the small inverter will draw less then the big one with light loads. It does not always work that way. In my opinion (and experience) what is more important is whether the inverter is a mod-wave or a sine-wave inverter. With the cheaper and more common mod-wave type - there is a lot of loss when using it to power high-load electric motors e.g. in a refrigerator, AC unit, etc. Also problematic with microwave ovens. I'd want a cheaper mod-wave inverter for appliances that don't care - e.g. DVD player, computer, TV, etc. I'd use the sine-wave inverter for the more problematic stuff.

With inverters these things need to be know and are different.

#1 No load power draw when turned "on" but not being used. Some big units are "load sensing and draw less then some small inverters when in "standby" mode.

#2. Inverter efficiency. Different inverts have different levels of efficiency at different loads. Read the specs before buying. Some inverters are more efficient at light loads then others.

#3. Square - versus - modified - versus - sine wave. This is different then rating overall DC to AC efficiency. And it will differ depending on what sort of things are being powered. No inverter on the market at the portable-type consumer level really makes a "true" sinewave even though many are actually called "True Sinewave." That being said, many sold as sinewave types are much more efficient that modified-wave inverters with problematic type devices. So in some cases, a 3000-4000 watt sine-wave inverter can run a small appliance with less power use then a cheap 300 watt mod-wave inverter.

[Sunrading Arkansas]

@ jdemaris - What was involved in upgrading, from stock, your alternator set-up (i.e., did you have to run larger gauge wiring, upgrade your converter, isolator, what was the brand/model of alternator, etc.)? I apologize if you've already documented this. Thanks!

[douglitas]

yeah, jdmaris, I'd be interested in learning about your upgrade, too. I have only the one storage battery at present, but want to expand to at least two and maybe four, which would give me near 320 AH. If I could charge them at 50A with the engine idling.... I could keep the batts near full most of the time.

[zero]

@ jdemaris - What was involved in upgrading, from stock, your alternator set-up (i.e., did you have to run larger gauge wiring, upgrade your converter, isolator, what was the brand/model of alternator, etc.)? I apologize if you've already documented this. Thanks!

I used a Delco CS-144 alternator. Very common and compact. They come in 140 amp (2000 watt), 170 amp (2400 watt), and 200 amp (2800 watt) models.

They show up now and then for less then $100 brand new on Ebay. They have internal regulators and are very easy to wire in. There are other options but the CS-144 Delcos are often the best bargains.

http://alternatorparts.com/CS-144_Special_offer.htm

Wire gauge absolutely must be bigger. That is based on how many amps you want to send out back to the RV batteries. I say "out back" because I would never mount them up front under the hood. Doing so makes it near impossible to use a high-watt inverter. I'm not done with my Toyota Chinook "winter project." I do have a another RV with the 140 amp alternator. It's a 1986 Chevy diesel Blazer Hallmark camper with pop-up roof. It has a CS-144 140 amp alternator with single belt drive. I never use it at full capacity but it charges 55 amps at engine idle. I have a 200 amp relay that combines or isolates the starting batteries from the house batteries in back. The house batteries right now are a pair of Trojan T-105 types - deep cycle, 6 volts hooked in series to make 12 volts and 225 amp-hours total. I have the alternator wired to the back with a max capacity of 100 amps. The length of the wire run from the alternator to the batteries is 15 feet. 100 amps at 14 volts for 15 feet requires #1 AWG copper wire. I have two inverters in back. A 3000 watt sine-wave inverter and a 1500 watt mod-wave inverter. Both are no further then 3 feet from the battery bank. An inverter must be close to the batteries or wire size demands become near impossible. With a modern inverter the voltage cannot drop below 10.5 volts for even a fraction of a second or it will shut-down. Thus the need for short wires.

A few examples:

Wire distance from batteries to inverter at 3 to 6 feet:

1000 watt - #2 wire, 1500 watt - #1 wire, 2000 watt -= 2/0 wire, 3000 watt - 4/0 wire (huge)

If distance is less then 3 feet:

1000 watt - #4 wire, 1500 watt - #2 wire, 2000 watt -= 1/0 wire, 3000 watt - 3/0 wire (still huge)

My refrigerator is 120 VAC that runs on an inverter and the batteries. Cost less then $80 new and had worked flawlessly. Two batteries can run it for a few days with no recharging (which would never happen). My 950 watt inverter-microwave can run up to half heat just off the batteries. If I want full heat I have to start the engine and it works fine. The extra amps from the alternator added to the pair of batteries keeps low voltage from turning the inverter off. Voltage dips are the big problem with inverters and batteries. When you start the engine in a truck - the starter in a 12 volt system drops the voltage to 9 volts and is designed to crank at 9 volts. The ignition system is also designed to make good spark at 9 volts. But with an inverter - such a voltage drop will render it useless. Most inverters automatically shut down at 10.5 volts.

[bajadulce]

I didn't read the entire article, but from the looks of what I've seen, this is another yuppie "Earthroamer" type rig that's great for RV shows and conventions and those touring I'm sure. Real boondockers.. I mean guys that hang out in the sticks for 2+ months at a time, don't have setups like this.

Here's a guy who has parked his rig 100' from the pacific ocean on a wind swept point 50 miles from the nearest town for the past 25+ years. Every year he spends upwards of 3 months here. EVERY year. The car never moves in those 3 months. How long would that van last getting beat by salt spray?

Just sayin that unless you're going to the moon or mars, high-tech = not what get's the job done. AND if shit hits the fan, you can't fix high-tech, yet alone walk away should circumstances dictate.

Electric stove top? That can't be that efficient? If you have diesel engine, diesel cooking would seem more prudent. i.e sailboats etc. but maybe there is more to it.

dunno, but you can cook a long long time on a gallon of propane... weeks.

I can’t wait to get hold of an RS E-Trek for an extended period of time. I want to get far out there, in the woods and mountains and fields and be totally self contained to really test out the power-generating capabilities. Hammill told me if you run the engine 20 minutes a day, everything is charged enough to keep you out there for days at a time… until you need to go get some more diesel for the engine.

run the engine for 20 minutes a day? How much fuel will that consume over a long stay? Heading into town once a month to fill up a 1 gallon propane bottle and resupply seems easier.

If you need to start your car to sustain your "boondocking", then you aren't doing something right.

12v fridge (top loading preferred), propane (or diesel) cooking, led lighting, decent battery storage + decent recharging (PV or wind or both), simple water storage (portable is best as you can fill up w/o driving to town) = gold standard for boondocking & 3rd world travel.

The first thing you’ll notice is that unique, yet low-keyed color ... The decals and logos are intentionally subtle and downplayed

Low Key .. what b.s. I dare them to leave that van parked unattended in some remote place.

This allows the owner to stay out in the field, not connected to shore power, for much longer periods of time

How bout staying out in the field FOREVER!

They’ve added a second water spigot that delivers instant hot water for tea or hot chocolate

That can't be efficient. Even if this is "instant on demand", the water will need to be run for awhile before it's hot. A drop of water wasted in a desert "boondocking" environment = that much closer to having to pack up and LEAVE. WATER is everything.

http://www.tourfactory.de/

These guys know how to do "high tech" and yet keep it practical.

[douglitas]

I used a Delco CS-144 alternator. Very common and compact. They come in 140 amp (2000 watt), 170 amp (2400 watt), and 200 amp (2800 watt) models.

They show up now and then for less then $100 brand new on Ebay. They have internal regulators and are very easy to wire in. There are other options but the CS-144 Delcos are often the best bargains.

http://alternatorparts.com/CS-144_Special_offer.htm

great info..thanks! I notice that the Delco alternator comes in a variety of shapes for different applications. Do you know which one is best for 22R engine? which one will you use for your Chinook project?

That #1 AWG wire is huge and you need two cables. expensive and difficult to find a place to install it. but numbers don't lie, that's a lot of amps to run and we don't want a fire or to lose the potential to charge those batts in a reasonable time.

[Maineah]

I have a hard time getting my head around retro fitting very old MH’s with a ton of expensive trinkets new heating systems, huge battery banks, solar panels, inverters for something that only gets used a few times a year. I mean how many people camp when its 20 degrees out or need to run the A/C all night long? I can go for a week at a time with two charged batteries and am quite comfortable using my old propane cooker, fridge and hot water heater that costs me maybe $30 a season. I use my LED lights watch a little TV play the stereo and even run an exhaust fan. It seems to me if you are going to be full time you’re not going to be parked in the desert or Fairbanks for months at a time you’re going to be close to something that resembles civilization MH are recreational vehicles not rolling houses. OK so you can stay with no power with your batteries and panels what are you going to do about water and food? How’s your cell signal? Where you going to dump your tanks (not in my yard). Can you cut wood for a fire to cook by when you run out of fuel? Trap a rabbit for dinner? What am I missing here? All of this is great, modern technology has given us quantum leaps in RV designs, efficient appliances and comfort but the fact still remains it is an RV with exactly the same living issues they had decades ago.

[zero]

I have a hard time getting my head around retro fitting very old MH’s with a ton of expensive trinkets new heating systems, huge battery banks, solar panels, inverters for something that only gets used a few times a year. I mean how many people camp when its 20 degrees out or need to run the A/C all night long?

Compared to living in a lean-to or tent in the woods, your RV is already loaded with "high tech equipment." If you showed a bunch of 1600s aboriginals your Toyota RV that self-propels, has a DVD, has heat that magically comes on by itself. has lights with no fire, has hot running water, etc. - you could probably be elected God. All seems relative to me.

Much depends on the individual and what he/she uses the RV for. In my case - I find an RV with certain pieces of "modern" tech extremely useful for my family's purposes.

#1 We camp as much in cold weather as in warm since for us - camping is something we do when travelling from point A to point B. No hotels and we try to avoid big campgrounds where campers are jammed in like sardine cans and noise is everywhere. We always camp rural and remote when possible and there is usually no grid power available.

#2 I have one RV setup right now with multiple deep cycle batteries and 5000 watts in inverters. I use it often as mobile power when using electric power tools in areas where grid power is not available. This includes a cabin I've been building in the Adirondack mountains. Also includes two foreclosed homes I bought in Michigan. They have no power since I refuse to pay $20 a month just for service charge on houses that are empty. I pull my RV into the driveway, plug a 100 foot #10 AWG extension cord into the RV and run all my tools (circular saw, air compressor, etc. I find my RV extremely handy fof that purpose.

#3 I install TV antenna systems now and then. Yes, many people still like getting free TV and it's more available now then every since the digital changeover.

In the analog days you could just stick an antenna up and rotate it for the best signal -and watch snow turn into a clear picture (maybe). Not so easy with digital that is "all for nothing" with little in-between. I use my RV to drive over rural lands and spot check areas for digital signals. That with a 15 foot antenna and a built in LDC TV with a signal meter. Works great for the purpose. Would I build an RV just for this? No. But I have it already and it's one of the many alternative uses that come up.

You say you don't get why anyone would retrofit modern tech into an old RV? I ask - what difference does the age of the RV make? I can pay cash for an old RV and not lose sleep over it. That leaves me more free to spend money on equipment that makes it well suited for my needs. With an RV chassis itself - I see little to no substantial differences from stuff built in the 1970s to what is new now. Just a huge price difference. To me - buying a $20,000-$120,000 RV is something that makes little sense - at least for a family like mine.

[zero]

I didn't read the entire article, but from the looks of what I've seen, this is another yuppie "Earthroamer" b.s that's great for RV shows and conventions. Real boondockers.. I mean guys that hang out in the sticks for 2+ months at a time w/o ever starting their vehicle to "charge" it up, don't have setups like this.

Electric stove top? That can't be that efficient. If you have diesel engine, diesel cooking would seem more prudent. i.e sailboats etc.

There might be some good ideas and innovation - but some specifics have not been disclosed yet. Roadtrek claims to have some proprietary technologly involved. True or hype, I do not know.

People living in the "sticks" for months at a time are likely using fuel from somewhere - aren't they?? If parked for months seems mobility is not considered important and things can be done differently. Obviously this RoadTrek is made for stop and go. RoadTrek is one of the few RV companies that's been doing well. Partly I think due to their innovation and offering of "stealth" RVs. The stealth thing is a big issue where people do not want their RVs looking like RVs. That because RVs are not allowed in some places -especially parked overnight.

Electric cooking can't be efficient? Why not? Induction-electric cooking one of the most efficient methods known to man when it comes to how much fuel is converted into wanted heat energy. The big loss is how that electricity is made. If I heated or cooked in NY with electric from the grid - it would be indirectly using coal and at a high cost. I have 100% solar power but that is not the norm here.

In Canada, it would likely be cooking with hydro-electric.

Technically speaking, cooking with electricity is more efficient that cooking with #2 diesel fuel or kerosene or propane. The limiting factor to overall efficiency is where the fuel comes from. In the case of the RoadTrek Eco -it seems a toss-up. It already has diesel fuel on board so a oil-fueled cooktop would work greatg (but needs venting). It also has ample electric power on board so that works too. Overall with the induction electric cooktop - it IS cooking with diesel since that will be the normal fuel used to make the electricity. Specs I am not privy too are - cost of the electric cooktop versus the oil (electric is probably MUCH cheaper). Also weight and ease of installation (oil requires dedicated venting). And then overall fuel use per BTU output of the cooktop. No figures on that except in the case the solar panels provide power - there is less diesel fuel used. The electric cooktop is probably somewhere around 1200 watts. To use it for 10 minutes you'd need an hour and a half of full sun to make up for it with the solar the RoadTrek comes with.

[Maineah]

Compared to living in a lean-to or tent in the woods, your RV is already loaded with "high tech equipment." If you showed a bunch of 1600s aboriginals your Toyota RV that self-propels, has a DVD, has heat that magically comes on by itself. has lights with no fire, has hot running water, etc. - you could probably be elected God. All seems relative to me.

Much depends on the individual and what he/she uses the RV for. In my case - I find an RV with certain pieces of "modern" tech extremely useful for my family's purposes.

#1 We camp as much in cold weather as in warm since for us - camping is something we do when travelling from point A to point B. No hotels and we try to avoid big campgrounds where campers are jammed in like sardine cans and noise is everywhere. We always camp rural and remote when possible and there is usually no grid power available.

#2 I have one RV setup right now with multiple deep cycle batteries and 5000 watts in inverters. I use it often as mobile power when using electric power tools in areas where grid power is not available. This includes a cabin I've been building in the Adirondack mountains. Also includes two foreclosed homes I bought in Michigan. They have no power since I refuse to pay $20 a month just for service charge on houses that are empty. I pull my RV into the driveway, plug a 100 foot #10 AWG extension cord into the RV and run all my tools (circular saw, air compressor, etc. I find my RV extremely handy fof that purpose.

#3 I install TV antenna systems now and then. Yes, many people still like getting free TV and it's more available now then every since the digital changeover.

In the analog days you could just stick an antenna up and rotate it for the best signal -and watch snow turn into a clear picture (maybe). Not so easy with digital that is "all for nothing" with little in-between. I use my RV to drive over rural lands and spot check areas for digital signals. That with a 15 foot antenna and a built in LDC TV with a signal meter. Works great for the purpose. Would I build an RV just for this? No. But I have it already and it's one of the many alternative uses that come up.

You say you don't get why anyone would retrofit modern tech into an old RV? I ask - what difference does the age of the RV make? I can pay cash for an old RV and not lose sleep over it. That leaves me more free to spend money on equipment that makes it well suited for my needs. With an RV chassis itself - I see little to no substantial differences from stuff built in the 1970s to what is new now. Just a huge price difference. To me - buying a $20,000-$120,000 RV is something that makes little sense - at least for a family like mine.

Well without a doubt an RV is probably the biggest energy hog there is as far as a living space the insolation is all most nil with no real way to improve it due to lack of space to fill hence a heater that could heat a small cabin or an A/C that could double as a refrigeration unit. The old RV already comes with all the things one would need to go camping and the key word is camping. I do not need to bring the things I kind of want to escape with me what’s next a garbage disposal? I’m sure there are a lot of people that do live in an RV it’s not for me. It is a recreational device not a house. If you need a work truck I guess it’s as good a tool as any but when I work somewhere away from power I put a generator in the pickup it’s 10 times easier and will go places the MH would never dream of. I can pull start that batteries not included. In Maine the saying is “buy it new ware it out make it new” but that did not mean creating a whole new RV on a 30 year old frame. If any RV was a daily driver the maintenance would be astronomical if nothing else it would shake itself to death. As far as a new RV you really have to have a need like a Maine snow bird in the huge pusher parked on the Gulf coast plugged in A/C running till the 3 months of bad sliding returns to the North Country.

[zero]

. The old RV already comes with all the things one would need to go camping and the key word is camping. I do not need to bring the things I kind of want to escape with me what’s next a garbage disposal?

My Toyota Chinook and my Blazer Chalet came with ice-boxes (not refrigerators). So I guess by your reasoning - converting them to self-cooling refrigerators was foolish?

My Shaster camper came with propane lights, an ice-box, and a huge, low output convection-type propane heater (no blower). The original owner who bought it new in 1959 - did an upgrade in the 70s. He put in a real refrigerator, some 12 volt DC lights and a smaller higher output propane furnace with a blower. Again - foolish?

As to a generator - fine for some people and some places. Not for others. When I'm running power tools - using a generator requires it either running all day - or stopping it and starting it many, many times. Switching to an inverter and battery power was a big pleasure. I had power whenever I wanted it and it was quiet. When the batteries get run down - a generator can be fired up once and run at full load and at its highest level of efficiency just to recharge the batteries. Some campgrounds we used to frequent have been virtually ruined by people using generators. Back when the norm was AC generators running at 3600 RPM people were a little more hesitant to run them a lot when others were around. Now with the many DC-to-AC inverter generators and/or "quiet" generators I've been to parks where almost every RV has a little Honda or Yamaha running all day long. Quiet my a*s. You get a park full of them and collectively they make substantial noise. My wife and I used to avoid campgrounds that had electricity but now we try to seek them out. That so we can avoid jerks who run their generators constantly.

I guess what we DO agree on is a dislike of people who want to escape the trappings of home - yet attempt to bring it all with them and inflict it on others. Same sort of thing when city-people move into a rural area due to it's "farmesque" rural character and low taxes. Then they start complaining about "how come there is no tree department" , or "how come no school bus service" , or "how come there isn't a town official who removes raccoons", "how come cows cr*p on the road", "why are chickens running free", "too much wood smoke around in the winter", etc., &c. I've heard them all and have lived in three rural places that got ruined by this syndrome. I hope to escape it one more time. We've seen the same happen in many of our favorite camping places. I suspect the poor economy has added to that with more people trying out RVs.

[Derek up North]

I've heard them all ...

How about "the lake's full of dog hair!!"? I got that from my neighbour.

[zero]

How about "the lake's full of dog hair!!"? I got that from my neighbour.

I've heard a few close to that. One day I was walking past two women with some kids (city vacation people) fishing in the town-reservoir/lake. A flock of mallard ducks came around and one woman got real upset. She said ducks are filthy and "dirty up" the water. I couldn't keep my mouth shut and asked her - "where do you think those fish relieve themselves?"

I guess along the same line of reasoning - when I was a kid I went out deep sea fishing for the first time. Atlantic ocean out of Point Judith, Rhode island. I noticed that every time someone in the boat used the "head" and flushed the toilet - the boat got surrounded by schools of herring. I asked one of the mates why that happened and he told me they love to eat the sewage. That kind of cured me from eating canned sardines for a long time.

Last winter a new woman in town actually called the local sheriff because of wild turkeys. Why? When the dairy farmer near me spreads manure in the morning - the turkeys follow the manure spreader and pick out bits of corn from the manure. The lady said it was disgusting and somehow - shouldn't be allowed close to a public highway. How that gets enforced - I do not know. All farm fields must be out of sight? Or maybe outlaw above-the-ground manure spreaders that have already been deemed illegal in parts of Europe?

In front of my house and small farm, I have chickens and guinea hens running loose all summer long (Doesn't work in the winter since the fisher, coyotes, and fox kill them ). The fowl often walk up and down the town road which I own. Some guy who bought a vacation spot in the area was furious when my chickens were in the road and he called the sheriff. He found out quickly that we have a local law enacted in 1785 that allows all fowl to free-range anywhere in the entire county. That law is still current. Then he complained about how narrow the road was and was told I owned the road and the town only has a right-of-way and cannot widen it without my permission. That made the guy even more furious and he went to the Town Board and asked they move to take away my property by Eminent Domain. This stuff never seems to stop.

[Derek up North]

"Good fences make good neighbors." - mid 17th century proverb

And then the damned Town passes a By-Law limiting fences (and walls and hedges) to 6ft! No barbed wire unless you're a farm, too!!

[Maineah]

My farm in Maryland had been a farm for 250 years the farm behind it was sold and they built a development that's when the fun started. I too own a right of way road actually two one is continuing ownership right in the center of my land the other is a right of way to the state wild life management area I was given the key to the gate that's when the fun once again started. Maine's laws state you can't sell landlocked property.

My Toyota Chinook and my Blazer Chalet came with ice-boxes (not refrigerators). So I guess by your reasoning - converting them to self-cooling refrigerators was foolish?

My Shaster camper came with propane lights, an ice-box, and a huge, low output convection-type propane heater (no blower). The original owner who bought it new in 1959 - did an upgrade in the 70s. He put in a real refrigerator, some 12 volt DC lights and a smaller higher output propane furnace with a blower. Again - foolish?

As to a generator - fine for some people and some places. Not for others. When I'm running power tools - using a generator requires it either running all day - or stopping it and starting it many, many times. Switching to an inverter and battery power was a big pleasure. I had power whenever I wanted it and it was quiet. When the batteries get run down - a generator can be fired up once and run at full load and at its highest level of efficiency just to recharge the batteries. Some campgrounds we used to frequent have been virtually ruined by people using generators. Back when the norm was AC generators running at 3600 RPM people were a little more hesitant to run them a lot when others were around. Now with the many DC-to-AC inverter generators and/or "quiet" generators I've been to parks where almost every RV has a little Honda or Yamaha running all day long. Quiet my a*s. You get a park full of them and collectively they make substantial noise. My wife and I used to avoid campgrounds that had electricity but now we try to seek them out. That so we can avoid jerks who run their generators constantly.

I guess what we DO agree on is a dislike of people who want to escape the trappings of home - yet attempt to bring it all with them and inflict it on others. Same sort of thing when city-people move into a rural area due to it's "farmesque" rural character and low taxes. Then they start complaining about "how come there is no tree department" , or "how come no school bus service" , or "how come there isn't a town official who removes raccoons", "how come cows cr*p on the road", "why are chickens running free", "too much wood smoke around in the winter", etc., &c. I've heard them all and have lived in three rural places that got ruined by this syndrome. I hope to escape it one more time. We've seen the same happen in many of our favorite camping places. I suspect the poor economy has added to that with more people trying out RVs.

Yeah I too had campers old enough to have just the basics but I dealt with them a little differently I sold them! What I can't do with a chain saw I use my 6K auto idle Honda to run chop saws compressors and the likes maybe $8 a day. No generators for me either camping if you can't get by with what you got don't leave home. Camp ground owners wonder why I request a spot as far away from other campers and their store as I can get.

[bajadulce]

@ FEB 3rd posting:

Ok wow re-reading this days later, I can see that I was pretty upset that the offensive co-ordinator for the SFrancisco 49 er's and his ridiculous play calling @ end of Superbowl got my blood worked up.. Sorry if my remarks came across as being a bit rude. guess I was out for blood that night.

Van is pretty cool and I can understand how this would be great for somebody touring.

@jd's reference to a super generator/alternator as "cooking w/ diesel" indirectly:

That makes sense. Didn't look at it that way. good point.

[stamar]

whats interesting is how its almost exactly like my 1985 toyota dolphin. Only my dolphin has a lot of nice upgrades like a propane stove and refrigerator so I dont need to actually burn fuel to charge batteries to power electrical things like a retard.

It has all led interior lights I guess that means it doesnt have led tail lights or marker lights.

230 watts of solar panels.

I dont have a generator yet at this point, but I plan to have one just for battery charging similar to this one although Im sure im looking for something that costs about 1/100th as much.

I think im going with 1/3 the battery capacity but a significantly lower price tag. Significantly lower electrical draw i think as Im keeping all propane.

If I can Im even going to downgrade my electric fanned heater to a full propane one.

Im not even trying to run dvd players and tv sets although I wouldnt mind throwing a big screen lcd in there.

I just am trying to keep a full time cellular modem and a laptop or tablet going,in the field so to speak.

the full retail price of fitting an rv with this stuff is still so huge no one would do it other than for a fancy one like this. The total cost of solar and led lights for this type of electricity off the grid is more in the 400-500 range for someone who shops or can copy someone who does.

my friend is a full timer in a 99 sprinter van that looks exactly like this one only with a little older body style obviously but its even the same color and might also be a trek.

His expensive mobile has no solar it has 3 house batteries.

It has a propane generator and stove.

here on the west coast you can find propane for 2$ a gallon, but I think in texas where he is its in the 1$ range.

definitely the best set up for a real full timer, and he has the older 5 cylinder diesel engine for a few more mpg. It hasnt been that reliable for him although also not terrible. We both sort of took off in rvs at the same time and hes had a few breakdowns Ive of course had none.

[stamar]

your main goal when going out camping for an extended period of time is to avoid using more electricity than the solar panels generate. Which is next to nothing for the most part in the case of this rig. a big battery capacity is nice when you have shore power to recharge but once you are literally burning gas or diesel in this case to generate electricity, then literally storing it in lead batteries youre in the area no one wants to be, where its literally costing you more to power your stove top and computer than it would cost to rent a motel.

It gets there super fast too.

Your number one goal is to eliminate electricity electricty off the grid is super expensive for a small rv to come by.

even running the engine for 20 minutes a day in theory,using some sort of unknown alien technology to convert gas to electricity were not aware of, in 30 days costs a lot.

If this trek also has an effecient sort of electrical generator that works well with fossil fuel generating electricity..... its sort of like throwing modern technology at a horrible idea. It hurts way less for the trek owner to burn gas to generate electricity than it does me but its still a bad concept.

for the most part try to live without even using the lights much less an electric fan heater, and maybe over a span of days or weeks generate enough for a dvd movie. but leave the whole dvd collection at home.

[zero]

. Maine's laws state you can't sell landlocked property.

Are you sure about that? I can't say I've read up recently on real-estate law in Maine but I've bought and sold land-locked land in Calais, Maine maybe 15 years ago. What exactly does Maine law state and how recent it it?

I've been in several battles with owners of land-locked parcels trying to access their lands through mine (NY and MI- not Maine). I also buy land-locked parcels now and then when they're cheap and I think I can gain legal access some way.

In NY,it is not legal to create a land-locked parcel but is certainly legal to buy or sell it. I just sold 100 acres that was land-locked. If someone does buy land-locked land - they usually cannot whine and demand an "easement by necessity" because they are the ones that caused the problem by knowingly buying the land-locked land.

In Michigan it is also legal to buy and sell but I'm not sure if it's legal to create one. I just looked at some forest land in the UP that is all landlocked. If a land-locked parcel is over a certain acreage and shows up on a plat-map - a court can grant access but it is only limited access to a public road. Usually just a two-track dirt path and no other improvements or utilities allowed.

Realtors are famous for telling potential customers that land cannot be landlocked - but that is usually BS.