Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Passenger's Side at 50 PSI Driver's Side at 50 PSI I've not found a lot of info on these air bags online and precious few pictures of them, save for the one on the company website and in the brochure that came with my Toy: Company Photo I'm assuming the above picture is of a fully inflated sleeve. As you can tell from my photos, the sleeves are sort of wonky, but I can get the passenger's side sleeve filled to the max at 100 PSI. The driver's side sleeve will only go to 50 and then it simply will not accept any more air. I had this looked at by a tech at Camping World two summer ago and he said that the sleeve was "kattywompus" and that he had jacked up the frame, straightened out the sleeve, set the frame back down and then pumped both sleeves up to 90 PSI. It was an awesome ride - but both sleeves eventually sagged. I haven't bothered with them for a while, knowing that this was an issue, but wanted to try again and, lo and behold - last week, I got both sleeves up to 60 PSI. This week, however, only 50 PSI is possible in the driver's side sleeve. The tech is no longer at Camping World, and I'd rather not pay another $50 to have it done, so I'm wondering what I need to do to try and fix the problem myself. Where is a good spot to place the jack so that I can raise it up, get pressure off of the driver's side sleeve and straighten things out? Does the passenger side sleeve look like it needs an adjustment as well? I'm just getting to know the underside, topside, ins and outs of my RV to the point of doing my own repairs - something I've never done before, so I appreciate any advice on this. Many thanks - Bing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Thats exactly why they recommend keeping 10 or 20 lbs in the bag at all times, to keep this from happening.let the air out, jack it up and climb under there and straighten out the bag. ( you don't need the wheel off the ground, but jack it up until the axle is fully extended.Check to make sure the lower air bag mount isn't sliding on the springs. I know they don't line up very well but get the lower mount to line up as best you can with the upper mount when there is no air in the bag. Reposition it if necessary, then make sure the bolts that hold the lower mount are tight to minimize the chance of the lower mount slipping.There will be a little misalignment and also the angle of the lower support will be off, but again that's why they recommend keeping some air in the bags, to keep them from folding up like yours. Get them to line up as best you can when the axle if extended. Then lower the truck (or compress the axle) and see if it still crinkles up.While your under the truck, look at torsion bar, leaf spring, shock absorber, and rubber sleeves. Also look at the rubber bumper that keeps the axle from bottoming out. If the axle is moving around because of bad sleeves or broken leafs, this could aggravate this problem. Look at the shock absorber mounts, if a shock is broken it could allow the axle to over extend.Heres a link to when I replaced my air bags. Scroll down to the bottom of the first post and you'll see the alignment of the bags with a little air pressure John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'd suggest you start putting some money aside to buy replacements. Those are starting to look kind of 'crusty' from the abuse! They might work, but appear to be past their prime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Where do I place the jack? I lifted the driver's side using the rear axle (as shown in the book you linked, Derek), but the sleeve remains compressed (and I got the wheels off of the ground.) Am I supposed to be jacking up the coach frame? If so, where's a good spot? Also - are 2 ton jackstands good enough for the job I'm doing here? I got 4 ton stands and they don't even fit under the axle. Would I be better off using a bottle jack as opposed to this little Toyota jack? So many questions and a crick in my neck, but it's worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think I'd place the jack under one of the 'spring eyes' (either end of the spring). You want the axle to droop when it's jacked up. Or jack under the axle until the frame is high enough to get a jackstand under the frame, then lower the axle down again. I'd place the jack stand under the Toyota frame (NOT the cheesey extension from the MH manufacturer). 4-Ton jack stands would be better than 2-Ton (obviously) if you can get them to fit. Whenever I work under something, I'll use a jack stand plus leave the jack in place plus I'll throw the wheel underneath as a 'just in case Plan A and Plan B fail'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 The 4-ton stands were too tall, so I swapped them out for 2-ton. Heading back underneath now. If I don't post again in an hour, send the EMTs to... (just kidding - my wife is home and checking on me every five minutes.) Seriously, this is the first time I've done anything remotely like this, so I appreciate the help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Looks like a great candidate for Tire slime fix after fixing the womp issue. Now I will probably get pounced on for saying this but my old T-9s had a small leak at the bottom of the perch (not in the schrader or any of the lines.) I tire slimed em and filled them up to 90, let it leak out, added more air, it leaked out and eventually the slime made its way to the bag and sealed it. They havent leaked since, and no the slime did not clog anything. Even if the slime did clog something you will be getting all new hardware so its irrelevant to worry about it. I'd jack it up, empty the bags put 1 bottle of slime in them fill em drop it and monitor making sure to fill em up to 80 if they go below 50. the slime will make its way to the leak. This is of course assumed that they are leaking in the bag and mount somewhere. soap spray test the whole line works first to make sure its not a simple leak in the line fittings. You wont get off any cheaper than slime. Do NOT use fix a flat. -Totem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Well, the verdict is in - the driver's side sleeve does have a leak. I jacked it up by the fore spring eye and set a jack under it, then inflated the sleeve. It began to come back into a cylindrical shape, but I could feel the air escaping near the bottom. I didn't bother to look at the other one - definitely time to replace. Do I have to worry about any damage running on empty air bags? I need to prioritize the next few check-list items (new fridge and canopy are on that list. Suppose I can keep using the ice chest and umbrella in order to get my suspension in order, huh?) Thanks again for the help - once I order the parts, I'll look at the post on airbag replacement, John, and see if I'm feeling brave enough to have a crack at it. All the best, Bing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If it is indeed leaking low in the air spring (bag), I'd say it's worth trying the Slime. I guess it'll depend on the size of the hole. A pinhole or a 1" tear. I've zero experience with slime (except in the back of my fridge) so I don't know how big a leak it will cure (at least temporarily). Were you able to get it to hold any pressure? Check the other side for leaks too. The only thing that'll be damaged by driving with them empty will be the air springs. And that ship has already sailed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Looks like a great candidate for Tire slime fix after fixing the womp issue. Now I will probably get pounced on for saying this but my old T-9s had a small leak at the bottom of the perch (not in the schrader or any of the lines.) I tire slimed em and filled them up to 90, let it leak out, added more air, it leaked out and eventually the slime made its way to the bag and sealed it. They havent leaked since, and no the slime did not clog anything. Even if the slime did clog something you will be getting all new hardware so its irrelevant to worry about it. I'd jack it up, empty the bags put 1 bottle of slime in them fill em drop it and monitor making sure to fill em up to 80 if they go below 50. the slime will make its way to the leak. This is of course assumed that they are leaking in the bag and mount somewhere. soap spray test the whole line works first to make sure its not a simple leak in the line fittings. You wont get off any cheaper than slime. Do NOT use fix a flat. -Totem. Just saw this after my post refresh. Hmm - that might be a nice quick fix. Problem is, I think the bags have been in this poor shape for so long that they're crusted that way. Still, what's it going to cost me, $20 for the experiment vs. doing nothing? Should I get a 16 oz bottle and put 8 oz in each sleeve? Or 32 oz bottle and put 16 oz in each sleeve? I see Walmart has a 24 oz size. Heading to Key West in the morning. Will look around for some Slime threads here. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Suppose I can keep using the ice chest and umbrella in order to get my suspension in order, huh? You don't HAVE to have the air springs to drive safely. Not many were delivered with them standard. If you don't feel as though it's unsafe while driving down the road you're probably fine. I'm not saying you won't find a difference/improvement with them working, just saying that them being in-op doesn't necessarily make you unsafe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The rubber on your sleeves is so stretched out I don't think fixing them is going to work. T9 might have replacement sleeves but they don't show any air suspension systems on their website at all anymore for toyota's. Can't hurt to call http://www.3tsrv.com/Products/t9_system_air.htm Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 The air spring on the driver's side seems to have a part number marked on it. I've always doubted that 3T (based on their 'plant') make their own springs. I'd try Googling the number to see what turns up. You might find a cross reference to a Firestone or Airlift spring. These can be bought individually from many sources. All the manufacturers make a limited number of different top & bottom plates and 'bladders'. They just mix & match them for different applications and then change the mounting brackets for the different vehicles. The same spring used in Firestone's Toyota kits is used in (if I remember correctly) Ford F-150 for example. http://www.3tsrv.com/Products/t9_system_air.htm#Toyota Give us what you've got and maybe we can find replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 At nappa I have seen "air less" air bag replacements that supposedly sit in the old perch. The resemble a toy my shepherds love called a "Kong". I am unsure how well they would work though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Timbren Aeon? http://www.timbren.com/aeon-rubber-springs.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 yep that's them. would those work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 A very few have reported being happy on the Yahoo Group. 1 or 2, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Give the green slime a shot, it may buy you some time if you decide to replace the bags later. I think T3 has them, give them a call. If I remember, it was about $250 for the replacement kit. (new bags and mounts, new hoses and fittings) I URGE you to replace the top bolts with longer bolts, read my HOW-TO and you'll see why.You shouldn't have any problems running without them, but its a lot nicer running with them. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 An OT FWIW, the original Mini used chunks of rubber (like Timbren) as the only springing medium when launched in 1958. They switched to a hydraulic system (Hydrolastic) and then back to rubber again before stopping production in 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritabago's Dad Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 John, I'll definitely talk to 3T and order up a full replacement kit. Went and got some Slime and, I tell you what, could only get about 4 oz of the stuff into each line. I de-pressurized and stripped the valve cores out, inverted the bottle (best I could with the limited space in the wheel well) and squeezed with everything I had. It simply wouldn't take any more. When I replaced the valve core and put air in the passenger's side - it acted like it was clogged, then I heard a "pop" and suddenly, my PSI meter was functioning normally instead of instantly redlining. However, I never heard the "pop" on the driver's side and the compressor continued to redline, showing that it just wasn't getting any air in. Previously, I had jacked up both sides and tried to get the sleeves back into shape, but they're pretty much crusted that way. After going to the gas station to try it with higher pressure, the pop-up gauge reads "60" but when I attach the hose, there's no tell-tale "psssh" of rushing air. The other bag goes all the way up to 100. Needless to say, I'll replace them both this summer.It's a good thing that I've got control over the passenger's side airbag. I'm a touring musician, and a lot of my gear gets stored in the bathroom closet which is on the passenger's side. At least I know I can equalize things for awhile. You all have been a huge help on this and other issues. Many, many thanks and happy/safe travels! Best wishes, Bing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 "Instantly redlining" to me indicates that the airline is blocked (or the valve stuck). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 I put a 3-t's system on my Escaper last summer and the difference in ride quality was huge. Call 3-t and order the parts. The bags themselves are made by Firestone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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