5 speed/22R/1 ton axle

[Tundrawolf]

Hi,

I have had a one ton axle for some time, pulled from a flatbed of unknown axle ratio. I am in the middle of rebuilding the engine, was was bored .50 over. I have a W50 5 speeds trans I bought that I want to put behind the engine. I know for a fact the original 4 speed trans was in front of a non full floating axle that had a higher gear ratio than the full floater in it now. (In other words, the driveshaft had to turn less times in the old axle to get one wheel revolution than the full floater did) I don't know what the actual ratio is in the full floater although I suspect it's pretty high, mid fours to high fours. (4.3~ -4.7~ Not sure exactly what Toyota uses)

I realize the 22R is a four cylinder, and that my twenty foot (Albeit totally gutted) long RV is automatically a burden. Does anyone have a 5 speed behind a 22R equipped motorhome? Do you ever shift into fifth?

[Derek up North]

Most of the MH have 4.10:1 axle ratios. Some later V6s came with 4.30:1. I've read that possibly in the '70s they were 3.90:1. 4Runners with bigger tires were also available with 4.56:1 and 4.88:1 axles.

Some (possibly all) 5-speeds have a 5th gear ratio of 0.85. This 15% drop is a lot more useable that the 30% of the automatic. Some have commented that the 5-speed is not as strong as the 4-speed. I'm not in a position to say if it's strong enough.

[zero]

Hi,

I have had a one ton axle for some time, pulled from a flatbed of unknown axle ratio. I am in the middle of rebuilding the engine, was was bored .50 over. I have a W50 5 speeds trans I bought that I want to put behind the engine. I know for a fact the original 4 speed trans was in front of a non full floating axle that had a higher gear ratio than the full floater in it now. (In other words, the driveshaft had to turn less times in the old axle to get one wheel revolution than the full floater did) I don't know what the actual ratio is in the full floater although I suspect it's pretty high, mid fours to high fours. (4.3~ -4.7~ Not sure exactly what Toyota uses)

I realize the 22R is a four cylinder, and that my twenty foot (Albeit totally gutted) long RV is automatically a burden. Does anyone have a 5 speed behind a 22R equipped motorhome? Do you ever shift into fifth?

I have a W50 in my 1978 Chinook now but can't comment on how well it works since I haven't driven it yet. There are only a few 5 speed transmissions that will fit the older trucks without modification. W50 is one of them. The original 4 speed is 21" long. The only other 5 speeds that are that short are - W50, L50 and L52. Any other Aisin 5 speed is 25.5" long and requires relocating the shifter-hole and modifying the trans-mount. One slight draw-back to the W50 is it has a higher 1st gear then the original 4 speed. The 4 speed has a 3.67 to 1 ratio in 1st gear. The W50 five-speed has a 3.28 to 1 ratio in 1st gear.

L43 four speed specs in 1^st gear (7.77 total ratio) with 4.1 rear

5 MPH – 510 RPM, 15 MPH-1530 RPM

W50 5 speed specs in 1^st gear (7.38 total ratio) with 4.1 rear

5 MPH – 484 RPM, 15 MPH – 1453 RPM

I think the W50 has equal durability to the 4 speed. Same size bearings. Toyota kept increasing the size of the input bearing in the Aisin transmissions as time went on. The original 4 speed has a 75 mm input bearing, same as the W50 and L50 5 speeds. The L52 got beefed up to an 80 mm bearing. Isuzu min-trucks were known for having weaker 5 speeds then 4 speeds, but they weren't Aisin.

The center-section with the differential swaps between the 1/2 ton rear and the 1 ton full-floater. I just put my 1978 1/2 ton diff in my 1987 1 ton dually.

[WME]

Change the rear ratio. It will give you the lower overall gear to get it going. The 5th gear will still be lower overall than with the 4sp.

[Tundrawolf]

Well, the old 4 speed and the W50 are only 1/8" difference from each other, length- wise. So, I'm sure drive shaft shortening will not be required. I did hear that the W50 has weak bearings input and output.

[zero]

Well, the old 4 speed and the W50 are only 1/8" difference from each other, length- wise. So, I'm sure drive shaft shortening will not be required. I did hear that the W50 has weak bearings input and output.

"Weak" is usually a relative term when applied to the Aisin manual transmissions in Toyotas. The input bearing is often considered the weakest part and that got increased many times over the years with newer transmissions. In the case of the Toyota RV - the 4 speed has a few smaller bearings than the W50 five speed. There are a lot of heavy 21 foot Toyota RVs around from the 70s-80s with four speeds and I've heard few reports of failed transmissions. If the OEM 4 speed manages to survive, then so will the W50 if it gets the same care. The 2.2 or 2.4 engine does not have enough power to "power lug" in 5th OD.

The shorter transmissions I mentioned all fit with no mods of the driveshaft. My W50 with the top-mounted shifter fits the same hole as the 4 speed did with the side-mounted shift linkage.

One thing that struck me when I was modifying my Toyota is the driveshaft allowance for "for and aft" movement. The rear leaf-spring package makes a variable wheel-base. The more load on it, the further the distance between the rear axle and transmission. I.e. the driveshaft gets longer. Just about any other truck I've worked on has either a two-piece driveshaft with a slip-spline, or a one-piece that slips on splines at the rear of the trans. The Toyota has neither. It has a two-piece driveshaft with slip-spline in the rear of the trans. Seems the rubber mount in the center-support has to absorb the movement.

[Tundrawolf]

"Weak" is usually a relative term when applied to the Aisin manual transmissions in Toyotas. The input bearing is often considered the weakest part and that got increased many times over the years with newer transmissions. In the case of the Toyota RV - the 4 speed has a few smaller bearings than the W50 five speed. There are a lot of heavy 21 foot Toyota RVs around from the 70s-80s with four speeds and I've heard few reports of failed transmissions. If the OEM 4 speed manages to survive, then so will the W50 if it gets the same care. The 2.2 or 2.4 engine does not have enough power to "power lug" in 5th OD.

The shorter transmissions I mentioned all fit with no mods of the driveshaft. My W50 with the top-mounted shifter fits the same hole as the 4 speed did with the side-mounted shift linkage.

One thing that struck me when I was modifying my Toyota is the driveshaft allowance for "for and aft" movement. The rear leaf-spring package makes a variable wheel-base. The more load on it, the further the distance between the rear axle and transmission. I.e. the driveshaft gets longer. Just about any other truck I've worked on has either a two-piece driveshaft with a slip-spline, or a one-piece that slips on splines at the rear of the trans. The Toyota has neither. It has a two-piece driveshaft with slip-spline in the rear of the trans. Seems the rubber mount in the center-support has to absorb the movement.

Thank you for this good information.

[5Toyota]

the 1978 moterhomes were based on the LONG BED PICKUP which used the two piece driveline . THE short bed trucks used a ONE PIECE driveline. I HAD A 78 SHORTBED ONE piece drivline and twelve gallen tank

[unknowing aussie]

in australia there are kits available to fit V8 to the toyota 4 and 5 speed W transmissions a bolt in job engine mounts the lot (legal reasons), even with a 350 chev bolted to one it is reverse that was the issue and on the 5 speed when reverse went so did fifth and the old cast iron 4 speed was near bullet proof in such conditions.

http://www.toysport.com/technical%20information/toyota%20differentials%20identifications.htm

the early US and lite stout had a toyota E series and the hilux/pickup have G land cruisers have K

so this is a toyota dyna/toyoace axle 14" tyre

from some formats of the dyna/toyoace (1979-85 style)

now i love these plates as a toyota fan

the R transmission is a full cast iron unit and might be best known in it's first gen form as the R40 in the stout, yep the one with the brake on them, so this has a second gen stout transmission (1979-) a hilux pickup and hiace van series axle in 4.88:1 ratio pushed by a 12R 1.6, yet have a front beam axle

the stout after sales stopped in the US continued on as a semi cab over hiace until it basically became a cab over version of the hilux, the hiace pickup became the small version of the toyoace 1979 and after 1986 the toyoace and dyna were the same looking,

there was a heavier version of the stout that was not sold in the US that shared the platform with the toyoace/dyna and so just finding out about this US duel wheel hilux based pickup is an odd ball for me.

Edited March 5, 2013 by unknowing aussie

[Maineah]

in australia there are kits available to fit V8 to the toyota 4 and 5 speed W transmissions a bolt in job engine mounts the lot (legal reasons), even with a 350 chev bolted to one it is reverse that was the issue and on the 5 speed when reverse went so did fifth and the old cast iron 4 speed was near bullet proof in such conditions.

http://www.toysport.com/technical%20information/toyota%20differentials%20identifications.htm

the early US and lite stout had a Toyota E series and the hilux/pickup have G land cruisers have K

so this is a toyota dyna/toyoace axle 14" tyre

from some formats of the dyna/toyoace (1979-85 style)

now i love these plates as a Toyota fan

the R transmission is a full cast iron unit and might be best known in it's first gen form as the R40 in the stout, yep the one with the brake on them, so this has a second gen stout transmission (1979-) a hilux pickup and Hiace van series axle in 4.88:1 ratio pushed by a 12R 1.6, yet have a front beam axle

the stout after sales stopped in the US continued on as a semi cab over HiAce until it basically became a cab over version of the Hilux, the HiAce pickup became the small version of the Toyoace 1979 and after 1986 the Toyoace and Dyna were the same looking,

there was a heavier version of the stout that was not sold in the US that shared the platform with the Toyoace/Dyna and so just finding out about this US duel wheel Hilux based pickup is an odd ball for me.

Wow you should go into business exporting 1 ton rears seems like you guys have boat loads of them! All you need to do is find some one in the center of the US to sell them.

[Tundrawolf]

Okay, so here's the report for the W50/ 1 ton rearend.

The older semi full floating rearend (I assume semi full floating) had a lower gear ratio than the newer, full floating rearend. This made me nervous, because it seemed the engine was already spinning pretty quick at 55MPH with the standard 4 speed trans.

I tore down the W50 to clean it out (A LOT of sludge in it. So glad I cleaned it out.) and check the bearings. The input and output bearings were a *tiny* bit wobbly, one more than the other. So, i filled it with Royal Purple 75/90 after running it for a few miles with fresh, clean non synthetic oil.

One the rear axle, I put new brake shoes on it, and thoroughly greased the bearings with Green Grease. I like Green Grease because because it is tenacious, it's almost impossible to get fully off, and it's synthetic. I try not to run nonsynthetic anything if I can help it. I used the entire 14 oz tube for both bearings. Perhaps I overdid it. But I was hauling a lot of weight.

My 1982 19' RV was gutted years ago by me. It was stored by the ocean and is in pretty bad shape. Walls are coming apart, and the gaps are almost 3/4" in some places.

Before I left, I greased the front wheel bearings with Redline CV grease. I also tightened up the steering to a minimal amount of play, and greased the ball joints in front. Without the tightened steering, I believe the trip would have been more difficult, if not dangerous. The manual steering proved to be quite useable, even from a dead stop.

The engine is fresh, bored 50 over.

I traveled from 92356 area code to 86312.

When I selected the mapquest route, I chose the least amount of miles... Big mistake. It took me through Wikenburg, and 20 miles or so of steep climbs and sheer drops, with twisty mountain roads.

Even with these adverse conditions, and the fact that I was carrying a bunch of heavy stuff (A small metal lathe, a 4x4 quad, lots of other things including an air conditioner, things like that) I still averaged 18 MPG. It cost me around $70 in fuel to come up here to my mother's horse ranch in Arizona. In fact, that's better than my father in law spends on his full size Ram truck (With the hemi, automatic) to come *down* to see me.

Something curious as well. I was concerned about not being able to use 5th gear, with my load, and the fact that I was increasing in altitude. Well, it turns out, I used it about 80% of the time. Some times were 4th gear, and going through the hills, I used 3rd, and once even 2nd to climb some of the twisty roads.

I stopped after about 200 miles to check the rear wheel hubs with my laser thermometer. I was concerned I might have made the passenger side nut a little too tight. That side measured 112 degrees F (Warm to the touch) and the driver's side was barely warm at 93 degrees F. I have felt hubs that have gotten this hot with *no* load. So considering all of the weight, I'd say I was doing alright.

But in the end the old girl made it, safe and sound. And with some great fuel mileage stats as well.

Some people tell me that i spent too much money on this RV, given it's condition. Or, they tell me I am putting too much time and effort into it. Why rebuild the engine? It's falling apart. Why invest in a 5 speed? Why put that nice axle under it?

Well, I'd do it all again. I slept in the overhead sleeper portion, and I slept very soundly. Maybe it's because I own the vehicle, and it's like being inside of my own little house. Nobody can make me feel bad about putting so much into it.

I plan on re- doing the entire shell, rebuilding it and making it more liveable.

I love to write, and look forward to repairing my laptop so that I can sit in my little RV with a cup of coffee, looking out the large rear window, and periodically looking up, seeing the rolling hills of Prescott, AZ.

I love my little RV and don't regret a single effort I put into it.

[MontanaChinook]

Great!

Someone swapped a 5 speed into my Chinook. I was in 5th anytime the speed limit was over 55mph, and even used it on moderate inclines. I've only taken it on one real trip so far.

[Maineah]

It's not what it's worth others it's what it's worth to you. In your case it sounds like money well spent. Enjoy the ride!