Anti-sway bars

[david.brenda.morrow]

My rear anti sway bar has broken twice on my 85 4X4. Has any one else had this problem?

[nolan]

Never had that problem on mine, curious, you talking about a 4x4 toy motorhome? and where is the sway bar breaking at?

[david.brenda.morrow]

The new one was a three part piece with a thick transverse bar that is connected to the frame by two smaller verticle bars at each end. One small verticle bar broke near the lower end nut and rubber bushing that connects the parts. The original one broke near one end at a bend. It was essentially one piece (I think)

[Gulfstream Greg]

Here is a photo of the original type antisway bar from elsewhere in this forum. Mine broke in the sharp bend shown. Mine is a Toy 4X4, not the 2WD shown in the photo. The new one broke above the nut on the verticle connector piece, although it was a little different, being an aftermarket part.

Thats a picture of my motorhomes rear shackles and spring. Its a 1986 SR5 4x4 Sunrader 180RD with a 1 ton full floating rear axle. All installed by Toyota. Can't imagine it breaking. You could have too much side to side movement because of bad bushings. My bushings were so bad that the right rear inside dual would rub the frame on hard corners. Is your bar as big as mine. I do not know if mine is a toyota stock or aftermarket but it apears to be bigger than stock 4x4's. You may just had the bad luck of having two bad ones with nothing else wrong. Mine is a 1 ton version for the 4x4 axle. The photo below shows the bushings being replaced but also the top and bottom of the sway mar attatchments. If you look at the top rubber bushing for the sway bar you can see how it is deformed over to one side probably due to axle shift because of the bad spring bushings. As soon as I can find them I will replace the sway bar rubbers with neoprene.

Greg

[nolan]

I can understand the weakest link breaking, which would be the end links on the sway bar, they are usually small 5/16 or 3/8 rod, but the main bar itself snapping would take some major tweaking. Possibly the bar itself is mounted not completely square with the axle causing twist, maybe the bar is not centered for travel and with the weight of the motorhome I could see where it could snap an end link. Could be possible on the original bar that broke someone tried to heat it to bend it into place causing a weak point in the bar, they are spring steel and designed to twist. Several possibilities could cause the failure.

On Gregs setup its hard to say what swaybar was used, either aftermarket or even factory, but none of the 4x4 or even 2wd trucks I know of came factory with a rear swaybar except for the true 1 ton cab chassis units, and those were only available in 2wd versions, and then the swaybars were mounted differently than on Gregs rig, its possible they used the factory bar, built the L shape mounts and mounted it on top of the rear axle as shown in the photos and then built the frame mounts for the end links, the original factory 1ton swaybar center bushings mounted on the rear of the axle where your L brackets are attached, by doing that they were able to move the bushings to the top, most likely because of the 4x4 configuration and the need for raising the bar to keep the end links to a more natural length.

Regardless of type or style the rear swaybar is a great addition for any toyhouse, now Greg you just need to upgrade those end links to some urethane pucks and you'll be set for high speed cornerin

[Gulfstream Greg]

The new one was a three part piece with a thick transverse bar that is connected to the frame by two smaller verticle bars at each end. One small verticle bar broke near the lower end nut and rubber bushing that connects the parts. The original one broke near one end at a bend. It was essentially one piece (I think)

david.brenda.morrow emailed me some photos of his torsion bar. See them below. From what I can see it looks like a misalighnment issue. My 86 4x4 has the axle on top of the springs and a longer shackle assembly.

Greg

Remember, these are photo's of david.brenda.morrow rig.

[ps4u]

Hi,

I'm a neophite when it comes to suspension on my RV. I have an '83 New Horizon (like the Dolphin). I have had it since it was new and thanks to this forum, I just found out about the safety issue with the rear axle and had it replaced to a full floating one last week at Hoopers Rear End Exchange in Sun Valley, CA (Great job at a good price too, recommend them highly).

They also suggested to me that I add a sway bar and gas shocks. I want to do this but do not know what sway bar to get and where to get it. I would appreciate any suggestions....

Thanks

[nolan]

Your new 1 ton floater axle should have mounts already on the axle housing designed for the factory sway bar from Toyota for the 1 ton cab/chassis unit, beings your truck is an 83 the upper end link mounts would have to be fabricated, thats provided the factory sway bar would clear the other suspension pieces of the 83 set-up, can't say without actually having one to fit in place and see how it lines up, the factory bar is one option, other options would be to get a universal clamp on style bar for the 83 chassis from such suppliers as Addco or Hellwig, they are designed to clamp to the springs and have a bracket attached to the frame rather than attached to the axle housing and frame like the 1ton set-up. Good luck.

[ps4u]

Nolan,

Thanks for your imput. It helped a great deal. I found a used sway bar that supposidly was for my 83, but after buying it and taking it in to have it mounted, was told it was too short. So now plan to go the after-market route. Also been told that I should have air bags installed and beef up my springs. (They don't appear to be sagging, but I'm told they were not designed to support the RV). I'm now confused again. I don't want to sink any more money in it than necessary to get more stability, and also don't want too stiff a ride (my wife is already complaining it too rough.) Your thoughts?????

Thanks,

[nolan]

Hi PS4U, Too bad your first sway bar didn't fit, if it was supposedly for an 83 it would have been an aftermarket to start with as I have never seen an 83 with a factory bar except on the front. Kinda stuck between a rock and hard place as for suspension, any changes to increase load capacity usually increases the stiffness of the ride. I would agree the springs weren't made to carry that much weight in stock form, but most every older toyhouse I,ve seen usually had the spring pack increased either 1 or 2 leaves, depending on the original chassis that was used, 1/2 ton, 3/4ton, or even the early 1ton non floater axle style, even the old Chinooks used a heavier spring than the stock truck. The air bags are a nice addition, will give you increased load capacity, and if plumbed seperately will let you adjust the level from side to side to some degree. Overload springs will also increase the load carrying but stiffen the ride some, progressive overloads help by increasing the load capacity as weight is added, but when unloaded decrease to make the ride less harsh. Best of luck, N.

[Palouse Rider]

Greg,

Where did you get those neoprene bushings, looks like a good idea.

FWIW my axel looks similar to yours. I'll have to inspect my anti-sway bar.

~Dave

[Gulfstream Greg]

Dave

I got them thru JcWhitney. Mine is a 4x4 so thats what I orderd for. Not sure if the 2 wheel drives are the same bushings. Don't forget the special grease for them, I did not buy it and only realized it after I had things apart. I used disk brake grease only time will tell if it works right or not.

Greg

[ps4u]

Hi Greg,

I am still having trouble finding even an aftermarket anit-way bar for my '83 RV. I was told that the Hellig unit would not fit. Has anyone out there been successful getting an aftermarket anti-sway bar for one with the free floating axle mod. (Axle on top of springs)

The dealer said something about "the Frame Rails not being in the same location" (I assume he means the same as a pickup), and also the replacement free floating axle being a larger diameter than the factory unit.

Is someone has been successful in finding an aftermarket kit that works on the old retro'd units, could you please tell me which kit they used and how and where they mounted it (maybe even a picture?) I know I may have to have upper end-link mounting brackets fabricated, but where and how it should be mounted would help.

Thanks so much.....

Paul

[Gulfstream Greg]

Paul

Even though my 86 is a 4x4 the axle is on top of the springs. I will try and snap a couple of pics and post them. As for the frame rails being in a different place that does not make sence. Possibly the frame rail mount might be in a different location. That should be an easy fix though.

Here are some links for Toyota Sway Bars

http://www.addco.net/products/toyota.shtml

More

Probably late in the afternoon Sunday before I can get the pics up.

Greg

[ps4u]

Thanks Greg, Loking forward to the pics

[nolan]

Hi Paul, I sent a couple of photos to Greg hoping he will be kind enough to load them on here for you. I,m not sure where they got their info regarding the sway bar fitment and frame rail stuff but whatever. I have installed probably 6 or 7 sway bars from both Hellwig and Addco, actually they are identical in every aspect, just different names I guess. The frame rail width is no different because of the motorhome compared to the standard pickup frame, just lengthened, not widened. true the 1 ton floater is larger in size than the standard axle housing but has no bearing on the sway bar mounting as it attaches to the leaf spring pack and the frame rail, not the axle housing. The pictures I sent to Greg are of my 77 pickup I,m working on, thats a Hellwig unit, the end link angle is a little steep because of no loading, the bed is off the truck so it sits higher than normal.

I installed the same bar on my 78 Odessey, mounted the same as this one and it has the upgraded 1 ton floater. The only difference between the 77/78 and your 83 is they widened the frames from 79 up so the bar will be a little wider than the earlier kit but the mounting is the same setup. hope this helps you out some.

[ps4u]

Hi Nolan. TurboGreg

As the '83 has no factory antisway bar , there are no brackets holes currently there for the upper end links to be attached to the frame. I suspect that my guy is concerned about that when he referred to "frame rails not in the same location".

I haven't received yours or Turbo Greg's pics yet. Maybe they will answer my questions and concerns. When I go back to the dealer and show them to him, I want to know what I am talking about and be loaded for bear. I don't want him to be able to say "no".

There are two Addco units that I found listed that I think might work for my rig #382 and #334 It looks like the only difference is the end link kit. Do you recommend the Urethane bushings? Hellig lists only one kit, #7539. No pics, so I can't see the differences.

I also found two Ride-Rite rear air helper springs (aka air bags). Do you recommend them? And if so, since my axle is on top of the springs, how do they mount? On the axle?

Thanks again, Paul

[nolan]

Hey Paul, The main bar bushings attach to the frame rails by means of a small U shaped bolt, requires drilling 2 holes in the frame rail, then the U shaped bolt is inserted into one hole and twisted until the end is lined up and drops out the other hole, then the bushing with the bracket is slid on the threaded ends hanging out and bolted down, the end links are mounted on the leaf springs by means of the supplied brackets that just clamp together, pretty easy installation for the most part.

Definately go with the urethane bushings, they are harder than the stock rubber style, last longer, and will make the sway bar far more effective, as the weight is transferred from side to side moving down the road the softer rubber bushings deflect or crush more than the urethane so the sway bar has to move more before it starts to react.

The air bags are fine, most are mounted directly on top of the axle housing in line with the frame rails, thats the point of most strength, best location, others clamp on the springs in line with frame rails, ok but not as good as the first, and some use offset mounts that hang them off the axle housing and have offset frame mounts, not the best setup as the mounts need to be pretty husky to take the abuse.

[ps4u]

The main bar bushings attach to the frame rails by means of a small U shaped bolt

end links are mounted on the leaf springs by means of the supplied brackets that just clamp together

Nolan, Did I understand you correctly... The main bar attaches to the frame rails and the end links attach to the spring? That's the opposite of what I understood from the pictures I've seen in this thread.

Also it looks like Greg's rig has the axle on the top. like mine, from the pics on this link, and that it is a factory unit with the main bar attached to the axle. Your's looks like it might be an aftermarket unit with the axle on the bottom, but it too looks like the main bar attaches to the axle with a "U" clamp. (Can't see the mounting of the end links to the frame rail.) If true, that unit with shorter end links might work for me.

Am I on track, or even more confused?? Maybe when I see your's and Greg's pics, it will be clearer. Tomorrow I will get under my rig and take some pics of my own.

[nolan]

Hi Paul, I'll see if I can confuse you even more All of the Hellwig and Addco aftermarket bars I have installed mounted how I described in the earlier post, the main bar mounted to the frame rails and the end links mounted to the springs, didn't matter if it was a 2WD or a 4x4 chassis they both mounted the same way. The standard 2WD axle setup was originally mounted on the top of the spring pack, the 4x4 was mounted on the bottom of the spring pack

Now the other rig pictured above in the earlier post is a 4x4 chassis, thats why the axle is below the springs, thats normal, by the way that one doesn't belong to me. The sway bar setup on it is unusual and I haven't a clue which particular manufacturer built it, with the clamps mounting it to the axle housing and the really long end link rods that seem to have given the owner problems with breakage, possibly someones attempt at making a do it yourself universal fit all sway bar, I really don't know.

Gregs rig is another different setup, its also a 4x4 chassis which would have originally had the axle housing mounted below the springs, sometime in its earlier life it had the 1 ton floater upgrade, they only built that axle housing for the 2wd chassis so apparently when they converted it over to the 4x4 they didn't cut the axle to spring mounts off and put them on the top of the axle housing so it would mount below the springs, instead they built the long heavy duty shakles to raise the rearend back up to normal ride height to match the front.

If you look at the pictures of Gregs rear sway bar, the main bushings are attached to the axle housing, BUT they have built small angle brackets to sit the sway bar bushings on top of the axle housing, on the original 1 ton floater they were mounted facing rearward on the bracket shown in Greg's picture, so I can't tell if they used the original 1 ton floater sway bar and just repositioned it on top of the housing or used an aftemarket bar and mounted it there because of the chassis height with the 4x4, if you also look closely the upper end links appear to be fabricated and welded to the frame rails, nothing wrong with the way its done, either will work, you can mount the sway bar to the frame rails and the end links to the springs or axle housing, or you can mount the bar to the axle housing and the end links to the frame, its doing the same thing both ways, you just have to watch for clearance problems and suspension travel to make sure things are working together when mounting the sway bars using either method.

are you confused yet I think I am. Good luck.

[ps4u]

Thanks so much Nolan. I THINK I understand. It would seem to me that getting clearance for the main rail to be mounted to the frame will present many more clearance problems, as RV mfgrs like to mount all sorts of stuff anywhere they can.

I took my RV in for shocks and spring bushing replacement, so I can't take a look for clearance tomorrow. (Besides, I wouldn't know what to look for anyway ) He's the same guy that I am hoping will install the aftermarket anti-sway bar also. He said he called Hellwig and they were to call him back. Sure wish I could get those pics you said you gave to Greg though. How about emailing them to me directly? (I think you have my email address)

Thanks, Paul

[nolan]

Paul,, I just got an email from Greg with some help in trying to load up the pictures, he has been busy with a family emergency so hasn't had time to get them done or the other pictures he wants to load, so I'll try to pull this off, I definately ain't no computer whiz so if this place goes up in smoke you know who to blame

I don't have your email address anywhere that I could find it anyways or I could send them that way. hang on and I'll try this and see if Greg's a good teacher.

[nolan]

[nolan]

Well I'll be, you did good greg

[Lee & Joan]

My sway bar (86 Sunrader) loops in a dip behind the differential, then straightens out and runs along the back of the axle where it is held by a bushing at each end. It then turns backwards towards the rear of the chassis about a foot on each end where it terminates in a vertical flat end with a horizontal hole. This hole has a bolt through it connecting it to a vertical 6" long bar going upwards which terminates to a bolt in the frame. The only rubber left anywhere is on the axle bushings, so everything is flopping around, no wonder I feel like I a driving a boat with a rudder. Where can I get parts ?

[linda s]

I used a marine bushing I bought at the hardware store cause I couldn't find anything else. I guess I should have looked a little further

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/search/??N=0&Nr=AND%28universal%3A0%29&PN=0+2602+4294958445&VN=0&domain=autopartswarehouse.com&mvtgroup=B&query_type=Product+Results&Nr=AND(universal:0)&refType=Location&refValue=Rear

In my defense my hardware store bushings are still fine and it's been several years. Maybe I will splurge for the real thing though

Linda S

[chefdave]

Hi

not sure if you can get problem solving bushes in US. these are available in the uk as direct fit to toyotas and other makes. basically polyurethane bushes in two densities. Slightly harder than normal and heavy duty and are guaranteed for years. come in various kit forms starting with shock bushes right up to all bushes in suspension. would suggest heavy duty due to chassis being in fully loaded mode all the time.

[Lee & Joan]

I found a bushing catalog for polyurethane bushings (88 pages) "Energy Suspension"

http://www.energysuspension.com/assets/files/energysuspension-catalog.pdf

They have several types of sway bar bushings

Mine look like what they call "Pivot Style End Link sets"

I called around to several Toyota dealers yesterday and spent some time at NAPA.

What I was told was that the Toyota truck frame delivered to the motor home manufacture

DID NOT come with a rear sway bar, each manufacture installed them (or not) as a part of the MH build.

So next question is who did Sunraider get their sway bars from?

[linda s]

I found a bushing catalog for polyurethane bushings (88 pages) "Energy Suspension"

http://www.energysuspension.com/assets/files/energysuspension-catalog.pdf

They have several types of sway bar bushings

Mine look like what they call "Pivot Style End Link sets"

I called around to several Toyota dealers yesterday and spent some time at NAPA.

What I was told was that the Toyota truck frame delivered to the motor home manufacture

DID NOT come with a rear sway bar, each manufacture installed them (or not) as a part of the MH build.

So next question is who did Sunraider get their sway bars from?

Well if your talking about that thing with the bar we don't have the same sway bar so Sunrader must have used several different resourses. The only bushings I have there are like the ones I posted. Go between the sway bar and the frame on the inside only

Linda S

[Derek up North]

Get the calipers out and start measuring. You'll probably find what you're looking for among the 'Universal' parts.

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/Energy-Suspension-Universal-Link-Flange-Type-Bushings.asp

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/Universal-Sway-Bar-Bushings.asp

Hard to be absolutely certain, but it sounds like you could use a new pair of these:-

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/Energy-Suspension-Universal-Sway-Bar-End-Links.asp

You can buy parts like this from places like Pep Boys or AutoZone.

[Lee & Joan]

I got some measurements today and drew a couple of views of whats under my 86 Sunraider

http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/uploads/tn_gallery_4529_13_39597.jpg

http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/uploads/tn_gallery_4529_13_90603.jpg

[Derek up North]

Can't see them. Too small, at least on my computer.

[linda s]

I can't see them either

Linda S

[Lee & Joan]

I can't see them either. I wasted a bunch of time trying to get them uploaded,

they are drawings on 8" wide paper of about 150 Kb,

that appear to have been turned into "thumbnails" in the upload,

They would not upload into the TMH Image base, so I went for the TMH Tech base

Having connection problems probably does not help either.

You can try doing Control + about ten times to make it much bigger

BUT the image gets too fuzzy to see the details