Does Sunrader absolutely need axle update?

[fullyhuman]

...and, just in case there weren't enough questions already: how much additional sane load capacity (rear axle, and total capacity, including as relates to very light towing) might i gain with the 6-lug update? i know the engine itself has its own opinions on that but i am curious. as of now, since i have not gotten a base weight, i have no idea if i technically have room for 1000# of people and stuff or if i am already overweight with all tanks empty, though my guess would be much closer to the latter. if there are any hard numbers or other thoughts on this to be had, they would be really helpful! again, many thanks.

lisa

[mulwyk]

The last 2 reports, here, of broken axles were 18 footers. PLAN ACCORDINGLY.

WME

Thanks for the correction, WME. Always willing to learn, and I believe you, but I can't seem to find any recent 18' axle breaks. Could you please post a link?

[waiter]

Its a good thing that there have been no recent axle incidents, that means the recall helped.

Not sure if you ran across this post, but check it out.

Floating vs Single Axle

Rather than retype everything here , I'll just point you to that post.

JOhn Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[WME]

Http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=1132 18 ft axle failure

Can't find the other failure in archives, but the wheels came through the wheel well and ended up inside, tore up a lot of stuff.

Lisa try a refuse site(dump), farmer coop, gravel pit. The scale is a single unit you drive the front axle on and get a weight, then drive forward a bit, weigh both axles and then drive forward and weigh the rear one.

[waiter]

Look in the yellow pages, Call DMV and ask where to get your vehicle weighted.

If you drive thru Toledo, we have a scale here where I work. :-)

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[fsprandy]

Lisa,

Welcome to the world of Toyota motorhomes! I have a couple and in my immediate family we have 4 right now and have owned 6 or 7 so far. My brother has an 18' like yours but his is a 4wd. Be comforted that the 4wd sets much higher so he has to carry steps to climb in and out of it.

You'll hear lots of opinions on the rear axle. The faux duallies are certainly not the best setup ever put on a vehicle. That said, I have them on my Mirage and have seen many, many still going strong after all these years.

I follow this subject pretty closely and have yet to confirm an 18' Sunrader with a broken axle. One was reported a couple of years ago but when I got pictures of it what had actually happened is the lug bolts had sheared. Sheared lugs are probably a bigger problem with the faux duallies than broken axles and I suspect in some cases what is reported as a broken axle was in fact sheared lugs. The problem is there are only 5 lugs and the cantilever load can cause nut loosening and bolt fatigue. It is very important to check lug nut tightness frequently (every time you fill up wouldn't be a bad idea).

Also, the full floating Toyota axles are not bullet proof either. I've seen a full floater on a 21' Sunrader which failed with a broken axle housing. Effectively the same as having the axle on yours snap.

My brother uses a Tundra rear diff on his 18' Sunrader with single 15" tires and it is working very well. His is heavier (4wd extended cab) and he is almost always towing a fully loaded ~3,000lb trailer. I would be concerned with stability if you were to run singles on yours due to the narrow track. The Tundra axle is about the same width as the outer pair on duallies. He picked up the Tundra axle for $200 but has a fully equipped shop to work in and is able to fabricate whatever he needs. I don't know what it would cost to have someone else do the swap. I expect the differential gearing would need to be changed also.

I see in one of your posts you were going to keep the tires inflated to 65 psi. I would suggest a lower pressure, maybe 50 psi. The lower pressure will improve the ride and also reduce the fatigue loading on your axles and lug bolts. I've run car tires on my Mirage for years with only 35psi in them and have never seen signs of scuffing between the duals. Heavy duty tires on my 21' Sunrader also show no evidence of scuffing with 50 psi in them. Of course with faux duals the spacing could be anything so no guarantees.

My final thoughts on the axle are that if you know how to drive in snow and ice you probably wouldn't have much problem controlling you motorhome if a rear axle snapped. I've had this happen (not on a Toyota) and it was just a matter of keeping the front wheels pointed where I wanted to go. Much worse to have a front tire blow out and no rear axle will prevent that from happening.

Safety: Bear in mind that cars are much safer now than they were 30 years ago when your camper was made. Also, trucks are made to less stringent safety standards than cars and yours is only a mini-truck and a very heavily loaded one at that. If you get in an accident with your motorhome the occupants will have far less protection than they would in a modern car. The stopping distances and handling of your motorhome are also abysmal compared a modern vehicle. Finally, being 30 years old the reliability is not likely to be very good. All of this conspires to place more responsibility on your driving skills and maintenance habits to stay safe. Don't drive it fast, slow way down on corners, wet roads, bumpy roads, blind corners, high winds, etc.. Don't even think of keeping up with traffic on the interstate. Find a good mechanic you can trust and invest money in preventive maintenance. Insist he use only oem Toyota parts or Japanese manufactured equivalents. NO NAPA PARTS!

Towing: I often tow a small trailer with my 21' Sunrader. My trailer fully loaded is probably around 650lbs. If you were to tow my trailer you may still be lighter than many 21' Toyota motorhomes. I don't notice the trailer as far as speed, handling, or braking is concerned. The tongue weight of a small trailer is very little - maybe 100-150 lbs, so not much of a concern for the axle. The trailer tongue also has good "mass damping" so it wouldn't put much for damaging shock loads into the axle. It is extremely difficult to back up one of these motorhomes with a trailer attached - keep that in mind. The nice thing about towing my little storage trailer is I suddenly have all kinds of room to carry stuff. If you have a sound hitch setup I wouldn't worry about towing a small trailer. If you do tow you should drive even more safely!

Finally, you need to touch base with Linda on the yahoo minitruckcampers group. She has an 18' Sunrader or two and I'm sure you would find her to be very helpful.

Hope you can find something useful in my verbage.

fsprandy

...and, just in case there weren't enough questions already: how much additional sane load capacity (rear axle, and total capacity, including as relates to very light towing) might i gain with the 6-lug update? i know the engine itself has its own opinions on that but i am curious. as of now, since i have not gotten a base weight, i have no idea if i technically have room for 1000# of people and stuff or if i am already overweight with all tanks empty, though my guess would be much closer to the latter. if there are any hard numbers or other thoughts on this to be had, they would be really helpful! again, many thanks.

lisa

[WME]

Would pictures make a beliver out of you, see post 39 and follow the link.

There some cheats that help, but dont fix the problems. Like running 10-15 lbs more air in the inner tire, not super good for tire life, but better for the axle. A lot of mfg's said replace rear bearings every 30,000mi.

The T100 axle sounds like a good possibilty if your weight is OK.

[Totem]

LOL I had the link in Post 27, no one noticed or read it either.

The picture of the Fooly lying in the road and that catiwampus busted 18 footer would be enough said for me; in fact that's what sold me on doing mine last year when I had the same concerns as Lisa.

My favorite part of the story is the fellow forum member that happened to be passed by the fooly wheel as it bounced ahead of its wrecked former host.

Trying to say the full floater is no better/safer than the 1/2 fake dually is interesting logic; any part can fail if overloaded but the recall isn't about overload its about bad design that will fail even if empty. Kudos for towing though; I have been known to break that rule. towed a tand axle 26 foot triple toon float on (no boat) 5 miles or so. My axle never failed... then again its the full floater.

Suddenly I feel ashamed at doubting towing to be cause of possible frame failure; my logic is flawed in the same way. Screw it I will still tow though hehehe

[fsprandy]

Thanks for the picture of the broken axle on the 18' Sunrader. Note that even though it happened in heavy traffic on an interstate no one was hurt and there was minimal damage to the motorhome. This is consistent with my own experiences with axle failure - not as big an event as some would expect. I was actually passed by the wheels when it happened to me (again, not a Toyota motorhome).

I see you misunderstood what I said about full floaters failing. I didn't say the full floaters were no better - just that they can and do fail too. The problem is the 14" wheels don't allow enough room so the spindle is, well, spindly. The full floater that failed was on a 21' Sunrader with moderate miles and was not overloaded. It won't surprise me if someone reports another full floater failure - hard to imagine I've come across the only one. That said there's no question the faux dually setup is more prone to failure though it is obviously extremely rare on the 18' Sunraders and unheard of on the 17' Mirage units.

I guess what I was trying to say is that if I was the person that just bought the new Sunrader I would use it locally for a little while before investing too much more into it. That way they can be sure they're happy with it and it really does meet their needs. It didn't sound like they had a-lot of cash to burn and these rigs are not for everybody.

Another thing I've seen is people buying a totally used up full floater for big dollars and thinking they have solved their issues. These wear out just like any other differential and have an added problem of packed bearings which have often been neglected. It's important to get a full floater with as low miles as possible and to have it properly inspected and serviced before the swap. Maybe even better to investigate some other alternatives.

LOL I had the link in Post 27, no one noticed or read it either.

The picture of the Fooly lying in the road and that catiwampus busted 18 footer would be enough said for me; in fact that's what sold me on doing mine last year when I had the same concerns as Lisa.

My favorite part of the story is the fellow forum member that happened to be passed by the fooly wheel as it bounced ahead of its wrecked former host.

Trying to say the full floater is no better/safer than the 1/2 fake dually is interesting logic; any part can fail if overloaded but the recall isn't about overload its about bad design that will fail even if empty. Kudos for towing though; I have been known to break that rule. towed a tand axle 26 foot triple toon float on (no boat) 5 miles or so. My axle never failed... then again its the full floater.

Suddenly I feel ashamed at doubting towing to be cause of possible frame failure; my logic is flawed in the same way. Screw it I will still tow though hehehe

[Totem]

Thanks for the picture of the broken axle on the 18' Sunrader. Note that even though it happened in heavy traffic on an interstate no one was hurt and there was minimal damage to the motorhome. This is consistent with my own experiences with axle failure - not as big an event as some would expect. I was actually passed by the wheels when it happened to me (again, not a Toyota motorhome).

I see you misunderstood what I said about full floaters failing. I didn't say the full floaters were no better - just that they can and do fail too. The problem is the 14" wheels don't allow enough room so the spindle is, well, spindly. The full floater that failed was on a 21' Sunrader with moderate miles and was not overloaded. It won't surprise me if someone reports another full floater failure - hard to imagine I've come across the only one. That said there's no question the faux dually setup is more prone to failure though it is obviously extremely rare on the 18' Sunraders and unheard of on the 17' Mirage units.

I guess what I was trying to say is that if I was the person that just bought the new Sunrader I would use it locally for a little while before investing too much more into it. That way they can be sure they're happy with it and it really does meet their needs. It didn't sound like they had a-lot of cash to burn and these rigs are not for everybody.

Another thing I've seen is people buying a totally used up full floater for big dollars and thinking they have solved their issues. These wear out just like any other differential and have an added problem of packed bearings which have often been neglected. It's important to get a full floater with as low miles as possible and to have it properly inspected and serviced before the swap. Maybe even better to investigate some other alternatives.

yep; but ya can't exactly pick one up at autozone or the dealership and; what if you survive... that's where the real fun comes

The toy life aint for anyone; you have to want it.

2k will put all new packed bearings in a nice piece, lines, full service and have it installed by mech, with 7 wheels and brake job.

I'm sure if I still had my faux-ly 1/2 ton it would have left in the middle of a PA Tunnel, Colorado on a "hill", single lane with oncoming highway in Bryan Ohio, the Chi town loop .. or maybe just maybe.. it would fly off on the Mackinac bridge. where you get lots of people but no help.

[YuupJeff]

My FIL owns a 1980 Toyota little chief. It runs the 4 cyl 20R engine and is the 4 speed manual. We are looking to do a rear end swap with another compatible 1-ton vehicle since this vehicle did not get the real axle recall fixed. Does anyone know what models we should look for that have the most compatible rear to replace it with?

[fred heath]

Have your vehicle weighed. Both total and rear half only. If the rear half only weighs less than 3800 lbs. you could get away with single wheel ff axle.

The Toyota 1ton ff axles are getting very difficult to find. They’re out there, just got to find one. Along with the matching wheels.