rongconcrx Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hi, guys Im new here and looking to buy a 1989 toyota dolphin tomorrow from a dealer. They are asking $10,500 and talked them down to 9,500, is that still too much? The condition is decent and runs good with 75k~ miles v6 auto. in New Mexico. any advice would be great . Thanks . Benny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I would think 10k this should be in very good condition with a lot of bells and whistles. If I was spending 10 k this is what I would look for: 76k miles is a little high, but actually, its better than 30k. At least you know its been on the road. expect 13 - 15 mpg, and travel at 55-60 mph. 76k is probably mid life for the drive train, but the other factor is age - 23 years old takes its toll on plastic, rubber, and unprotected metal. Hence its very important that recent maintenance and replacement of some components i.e. belts and hoses. There was a recall on the V6, make sure that was done. Also check for recent valve adjustment, its due at 60k miles. This should have the 1 ton rear axle (6 lug dully), make sure you have a spare. The coach should have its own Air Conditioner (A/C) and a generator. make sure the generator works. Awning??? Tires should be less than 3 years old. Look at the tires for age, not thread. Get the year code off the tire, if they're over 6 years old, you should consider new tires (about $100 each) Also check to make sure they are light truck tires, not passenger car tires (dangerious) rot - look up near the ceiling, especially inside the cabinets for mushy / wavy walls. Pay attention to the cabover area, sides and front, rot in these areas is common. Look at front window for cracks, this leads to water leaks and rot. Batterys (both truck and Coach) should be fairly new (3 years) - Coach should be a deep cycle marine type battery Condition of curtains, seat cushions, carpet, etc Status panel - water and tank levels. All appliances should work Frig should work, gas and electric stove all burners and oven furnace - make sure the blower doesn't squeal (common problem with older Toyhouses Coach A/C unit works Water heater OK (no leaks) water system no leaks - run water pump - if able use city water connection toilet, flushes and seals generator runs and powers up the A/C unit Faucets - no leaks - Shower, sinks, etc Propane system - hoses, connector, regulator, sniff the hose, if you smell propane, it needs replacement (they get microscopic cracking and develop leaks) Service records Brakes replaced bearings repacked (Front and rear, very important) trans fluid changes engine oil changes grease job hoses, belts, etc - recent change TRUCK wipers heater A/C Cruise Control OPTIONAL ITEMS - These things are good items that you will probably add: Upgraded Power Converter (new style 3 stage - keeps from cooking coach battery) Inverter - supply 110Vac from battery while boondocking LED lighting radio / TV / DVD player Good luck John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Just to add to what John wrote, the Maintenance Schedule for the V6 lists both the timing belt and valve adjustment at 60k miles. Hopefully they can provide proof that these were done. Checking the V6 valves and adjusting any that are out of tolerance is a big PITA job compared to the 22RE. $ So is changing the timing belt. $ Doing them both at the same time will save you money. -$ The V6 is such a PITA it seems that even the Dealer will often try and convince owners that it's not needed (contrary to Toyota's Schedule) by saying they're not making any noise. On the V6, as things wear, clearances decrease (which will decrease noise). John mentions the head gasket recall. Some early V6s (i.e. '86, first year) might not be included. Take the VIN to a Dealer and they can tell you if yours was included and if it was done (when & where) by a Dealer. If it's on the list and hasn't been done, it's still possible to find Dealers willing to do the work (no charge). If there isn't any record of it being done, it's still possible that it was done (as the result of HGF) by an owner not aware of the recall. If it's not on the list you could chose to assume that the HG is good and that since it's not leaked in 23 years and 76k miles, there's no real reason to think it's going to fail now any more than any other engine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 12, 2012 Author Share Posted January 12, 2012 Great advice guys. Once i finish reading your reply,this rv is not worth it at all. It have a big crack in the back of the rv and seems like the roof leak befor. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I paid 5k for mine (55k miles) it lived its life in NM so there was ZERO rust. Reasonably good shape (I call it good bones) but I needed it in excellent shape for a 12,000 mile trip to Alaska. No generator or coach A/C Not a big deal for me) The frig, stove, water heater all worked, bad blower on furnace (squeal) Forgot to mention all the vents needed replacing (weather ultraviolet) needed 7 new tires new curtains, paint, cleaning new coach battery, new propane reg and hose Mechanical preventative maintenance brakes, bearings, hoses, belts filters. Keep looking, you'll find something JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabberwocky Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) for 10 grand, it should never of had any leaks, no rust, a hot tub and women included. you can get 1989 dolphins for 2 grand in ok condition that have never leaked. i would get one for 2k, invest another 2k and you have a brand new camper. i would seal the outside shell, brand new interior to your liking, and maintain the mechanics, call it good. and you could still be under 5k easy. gotta have some room left over for solar. http://www.statewide...A&button=Search there are a lot in california if you dont mind traveling, also search under regualar Cars, there is more in there as well. Edited January 13, 2012 by jabberwocky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 This guy sounds like an honest seller: "12-14 mpg" Though this is maybe slightly less honest: "perfect for 2 or 3 people long term travel, 4 or 5 for shorter trip" http://santafe.craigslist.org/rvs/2766511265.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I agree - IF I was selling mine - I would probably ask 9k and be willing to come down a little. Mine is in excellent shape, Including Hot tube and women. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabberwocky Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 the Santa Fe one looks good, looks like he had it detailed, a good sign he has taken good care of it. worth looking into and seeing how long hes owned it. im sure you could get it for 8. although it seems John might have a better deal for ya. ive been thinking of designing a fold down hot tub mounted on the outside, rear of my camper. i like idea, of finding one that needs refurbished, so that you can get, New materials and designs that you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Well I do really want it very much, but when talking to the seller he was BSing a lot, and i offer him 8k cash but he told me this thing is worth more then 12k so I told him he can keep it. Sadly the one in Santa fFe is sold. and there is a 1983 dolphin asking for 1800...but my wife doesn't know how to drive standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I Have been looking for this RV too but had no luck, what do you think of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84TOYRV Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 These motorhomes, on a full size van platform, don't have any headroom in the bunk. Claustrophobic, if you ask me.You can see that in the vid. My neighbor had one. Otherwise looks good. Probably bad mpgs for size, though. I have a 84 Dolphin with 22r 4 spd stick. Love it. Easy to learn to shift. Tudy & "Cricket" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Its nice, check headroom as 84toyrv says. Also check mpg. The numbers I was seeing on mpg was 7-10. For our Alaska trip this was a trip killer. (burns almost exactly twice the gas that the Toyhouse burns) John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Well, I Have found a toyota seabreeze for sale from a very nice local guy and he was asking for 5k, but there is water damage and need some work So he took it to the shop and got an estimate of $1500 to repair. Then i offer him 3500 for the rv with 81k miles that runs pretty good. What do you guys think of it? sorry for my poor english. here are some link to the rv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Same exact floorplan as my Dolphin, fancier trim around the windows and such (we had this discussion on a different thread) You also have damage in the shower, and around the refrigerator chimney. also take a look inside the cabinets for rot. (press on the wood if it feels sponge or loose, you probably have rot. The damage to the cabover may be coming from the roof, but I suspect its coming from the front window. The front window needs a new seal rubber that hold the window in the frame. Also look under all the windows for any damage. $3500 sounds like a good deal if everything is in reasonable good order, your probably at the lower end of the price he would be willing to come down to, but check all the other stuff we mentioned before, (engine recall, tire dates, furnace blower squeal, etc) JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 That's an '89 or '90 SeaBreeze (Model #900). The window treatments (valances across top & sides) have been changed/update from original. My SeaBreeze has similar valances but fabric covering coordinated with upholstery. Very Martha Stewart! Carpet and upholstery in the coach also appears original. New spare, perhaps, but how OLD is it? The ladder also looks new, as originally they would have been natural aluminum. Possibly a new rear bumper, too. I've no idea what the 'red' fitting (marked 200psi) next to the air spring valves is for. Anyone? http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream Nexen SV-820 tire mounted on front is OK for MH. Can't identify rear, but I don't think it's a Nexen. The tank might be new, but is it correct? Looks like a 20lb BBQ tank on it's side to me. If so, this would be VERY dangerous and expensive to correct. Hope I'm wrong! http://www.flickr.co...tream/lightbox/ I suspect it's going to take more han 'a small strip of wood' to repair this. Probably nothing to attack it to (other than gluing). http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ The cab looks clean and unmolested enough, other than the damage to the passenger seat. Will be hard to repair. Probably easiest to swap in a pair of more comfortable seats from a 4Runner! Bathroom fan (if like mine) moves little air but make lots of noise. My SeaBreeze has cupholders on the dinette table. Perhaps one of the SeaBreeze 'upgrades'. Big deal! EDIT:- Looks like it's a 1990. Just looked at the Dolphin brochures and it seems as thought one of he changes from 89 to 90 was the addition of the above mentioned valances. They also appear to be covered in the same material as the one for sale. Not a 1991 because the bumpers (front & rear) changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) That's an '89 or '90 SeaBreeze (Model #900). The window treatments (valances across top & sides) have been changed/update from original. My SeaBreeze has similar valances but fabric covering coordinated with upholstery. Very Martha Stewart! Carpet and upholstery in the coach also appears original. New spare, perhaps, but how OLD is it? The ladder also looks new, as originally they would have been natural aluminum. Possibly a new rear bumper, too. I've no idea what the 'red' fitting (marked 200psi) next to the air spring valves is for. Anyone? http://www.flickr.co.../in/photostream Nexen SV-820 tire mounted on front is OK for MH. Can't identify rear, but I don't think it's a Nexen. The tank might be new, but is it correct? Looks like a 20lb BBQ tank on it's side to me. If so, this would be VERY dangerous and expensive to correct. Hope I'm wrong! http://www.flickr.co...tream/lightbox/ I suspect it's going to take more han 'a small strip of wood' to repair this. Probably nothing to attack it to (other than gluing). http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/ The cab looks clean and unmolested enough, other than the damage to the passenger seat. Will be hard to repair. Probably easiest to swap in a pair of more comfortable seats from a 4Runner! Bathroom fan (if like mine) moves little air but make lots of noise. My SeaBreeze has cupholders on the dinette table. Perhaps one of the SeaBreeze 'upgrades'. Big deal! EDIT:- Looks like it's a 1990. Just looked at the Dolphin brochures and it seems as thought one of he changes from 89 to 90 was the addition of the above mentioned valances. They also appear to be covered in the same material as the one for sale. Not a 1991 because the bumpers (front & rear) changed. It is a BBQ one from a gas station that he switch out, What are the different? I was reading about the different and they said its the same Can someone confirm this , i'm getting nervous once I read this post. thank for all the advice guys. I just my first RV a 1990 toyota sea breeze and very excited. http://www.forestriv...tanks-9285.html Edited January 16, 2012 by rongconcrx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Do NOT use a 'standard' BBQ tank on it's side. If he offers to demonstrate, LEAVE THE AREA. On it's side, there's a very good chance that liquid propane will leave the cylinder and go through the lines. The system is only designed for low pressure propane gas. The vertical tanks have a pickup designed to deliver gaseous propane when vertical, the 'proper' horizontal tank is designed to deliver gaseous propane when installed horizontally. The difference is the pickup inside the tanks. Again, THIS IS DANGEROUS! Sorry about sounding so dramatic, but I don't think anyone will disagree with my advice. EDIT:- I just read your link. I've never owned a Travel Trailer, bu I believe it's quite common for them to have a couple of 20#, standard BBQ tanks mounted VERTICALLY (as they are supposed to be). This is safe (and as designed). They seem to be discussing how RV Dealers charge way more for a standard cylinder vs prices in a 'big' box' store. EDIT 2:- There is a difference between a 'Propane Tank' and a 'Propane Cylinder'. This is what was probably installed originally and what should it should have been replaced with:- http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cc088f2da Yes, unfortunately a big difference in price, but the only safe way you can go unles you figure out how to install the BBQ tank VERTICALLY! EDIT 3:- Final Edit. Not trying to make you nervous. Trying to make you safe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphinite no longer here Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Rongconcrx- Derek is right. NEVER use a propane tank on its side that's meant for vertical use! Severe death could result!! John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 DO NOT USE THAT TANK ON ITS SIDE - IT IS A VERTICAL TANK AND THERE IS A HIGH RISK OF FIRE. The tanks that we use are designed to feed gaseous propane to the regulator, 50 - 250 psi depending on temperature. The regulator then takes the gas, and regulates it down to about 10 inches water (about 1/2 psi) When you lay the BBQ tank on its side, (especially if its full) it will send out liquid propane, not gaseous propane. The liquid can foul the regulator, and then put liquid into the gas line. When the liquid enters the lower pressure, it evaporates (most of it) and raised the pressure in your low pressure line. REMEMBER - The low pressure line is about 1/2 psi, When the liquid evaporates in the low pressure line, it will raise the pressure anywhere between 50 - 250 psi (depending on temperature) The visual I want you to picture is a WWII flame thrower, when you try and light your stove, it will squirt out liquid propane at 50 - 250 psi, which will light, and resemble a flame thrower. (same with the Frig) Can you picture your garden hose squirting water, but instead of water, it would be propane, and it would be lite. Horizontal tanks have a pickup tube inside , (They should NOT be used vertically (same problem) When they are laying on their side, the tube is above the liquid and it feeds gas. If you turn a horizontal tank and set it upright, it will feed liquid, especially if its full. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 OMG Thats scary, I Have close it and will change it at an RV shop, How much does cost to replace it? The last owner was pretty new so he didn't know either. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Do NOT use a 'standard' BBQ tank on it's side. If he offers to demonstrate, LEAVE THE AREA. On it's side, there's a very good chance that liquid propane will leave the cylinder and go through the lines. The system is only designed for low pressure propane gas. The vertical tanks have a pickup designed to deliver gaseous propane when vertical, the 'proper' horizontal tank is designed to deliver gaseous propane when installed horizontally. The difference is the pickup inside the tanks. Again, THIS IS DANGEROUS! Sorry about sounding so dramatic, but I don't think anyone will disagree with my advice. EDIT:- I just read your link. I've never owned a Travel Trailer, bu I believe it's quite common for them to have a couple of 20#, standard BBQ tanks mounted VERTICALLY (as they are supposed to be). This is safe (and as designed). They seem to be discussing how RV Dealers charge way more for a standard cylinder vs prices in a 'big' box' store. EDIT 2:- There is a difference between a 'Propane Tank' and a 'Propane Cylinder'. This is what was probably installed originally and what should it should have been replaced with:- http://www.ebay.com/...=item3cc088f2da Yes, unfortunately a big difference in price, but the only safe way you can go unles you figure out how to install the BBQ tank VERTICALLY! EDIT 3:- Final Edit. Not trying to make you nervous. Trying to make you safe! Thank you and much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I carry a BBQ tank as a spare, when I hook it up, its sitting outside and standing vertically like its supposed to. I like the BBQ because they are available just about everywhere. Someone out on the west coast (Santa Cruz I think) has a horizontal that they were trying to get rid of, you might check into that and see what it takes to ship one of these (probably empty and purged with nitrogen) RV Net has them (cheapest I've seen for about $170.) http://www.adventurerv.net/propane-gas-horizontal-tank-p-8390.html JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Well I think i will go ahead and buy the one that Derek pointed out on ebay and fill it at a shop? Will that fit for the 1990 Toyota Sea breeze? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 I carry a BBQ tank as a spare, when I hook it up, its sitting outside and standing vertically like its supposed to. I like the BBQ because they are available just about everywhere. Someone out on the west coast (Santa Cruz I think) has a horizontal that they were trying to get rid of, you might check into that and see what it takes to ship one of these (probably empty and purged with nitrogen) RV Net has them (cheapest I've seen for about $170.) http://www.adventure...ank-p-8390.html JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto So I can keep the BBQ tank and used it when Rv is parked? Use it as a spare standing upright? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The cheapest 'quick fix' would be to remove the BBQ tank from it's current horizontal location and place it on the ground (vertically, as you've probably gathered by now) when you want to use propane. A longer hose might be needed. Another solution that I've thought about (but never acted on) would be to raise the floor of the wardrobe (which is directly above the cylinder compartment in my case) so that a BBQ tank (or even 2) could be installed VERTICALLY. I'd rather buy 2 BBQ tanks for $40 each than 1 horizontal cylinder for $250 (shipped)! Provision would have to be made to remove the tanks for refilling, but with 2, you could use 1 and keep a reserve. Perhaps the wardrobe floor would need a (WELL SEALED) trap door in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rongconcrx Posted January 16, 2012 Author Share Posted January 16, 2012 Very Interesting, I like the cheaper way, if thats all it takes to be safe than I might just raise the wardrobe floor since I'm have to redo the cab. Ok time to check around the RV and if I have any other question I will comeback. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Yes, I was thinking that since you're apparently going to do some carpentry/reconstruction elsewhere, now would be the time to consider something like my 'daydream' But don't forget that whatever you do, the propane must be installed in a well ventilated, unlocked locker (I think there's a law that applies to this and must be completely sealed off from the living area. No electrical stuff in there, for obvious reasons. Nothing to do with your current situation, but a propane detector in the coach is a good idea. As well as smoke and Carbon Monoxide (CO) detectors, of course.They're not cheap, BUT cheap insurance! EDIT: You might be able to get away without a trap door in the wardrobe floor IF there's room to pass a 2nd 20# BBQ tank through the existing door with the 1st one in and vertical. I imagine that it would be 'tight', at best. And you'd also have to screw the regulator on and off 'Blind', I think. A trap door would certainly make things easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Derek, I was thinking of doing something like that; Make the propane compartment larger so it would accommodate 2 BBQ tanks vertically, get one of those switching regulators that automatically switch tanks when one goes empty. http://www.adventure...tor-p-8478.html This solves all the problems. I'm thinking that you would not need to change the exterior door, but you would need to make the compartment taller by about 6 inches (guess) . The tanks should fit in there side by side. mount the regulator directly on the pipe (like I did mine) and just use two long hoses to reach up and attach to the tanks (maybe a 3ft and a 2 ft). need two strap assemblies (or something) to secure the tanks. I think I'll look into this when we get warmer weather. roncongcrx; Here's a link to when I repaired and upgraded my propane system; http://toyotamotorhome.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=3448 John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I've only thought about this, never while with the MH with tape measure in hand. Lots of time to do this with out Winters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I hate going out and setting up the spare tank when we stop for the night, I did it on our last road trip because I didn,t want to run the horiz tank empty, and we ran the furnace hard just about every night. Its a lot easier to refill/exchange the BBQ then it is to refill the horiz. The horiz tank lasted about a month, mainly running the frig about 16 hours a day. I'll measure it when I go home here in a few minutes. ALSO - I have a gravity hose so I can re-fill the horiz with a BBQ. Used that once on the Alaska trip, worked out OK. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 THE DOLPHIN I bought in november had a bbq tank i removed it and am using a recertified 1973 HORZONTAL tank picked up for free and in beutiful condition at the county haserdaous dissposal site. Pay the gas outfit 5 dollors too check it out good for 5 years. I DO KNOW THAT SOME OF THE OLDER LARGE MOTER HOMES USED TWO UPRIGHT FIVE GALLON TANKS. Our local rv shops want 200 dollors for a new 20 pound Horzontal tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I guess going to 20# BBQ tanks would preclude using the original inside propane gauge. Because of this, I think I'd prefer to NOT have an automatic switchover. Better, I think, a manual switch/valve as a signal that you're 'half empty'! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 The auto changeover feature can probably be disabled. I like it because if a tank runs empty in the middle of the night, or traveling down the road, it changes over. I'll just have to visually inspect the valve position to know which tank I'm on at any given time. I suspect because of space, I would always put the full tank on the right, and select the left tank as the active tank. Heres why: The two tanks will fit in there side by side, but in order to get the right tank out, the left tank would need to be removed because the propane line is in the way, I 'll probably look at seeing if there is anyway to mount the regulator switch in the middle, up high where it has room. this needs to be looked at before I start cutting the compartment up. The dimensions for my compartment are 25w x 13d x 13h The BBQ tank is about 12 diameter and 18 tall John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Hmmm. So the wardrobe floor would have to be raised about 6". That would make it hard for me to hang my evening gowns! How about going down instead? Could the propane compartment floor be lowered instead? Is there anything occupying the space down there? As for the automatic switching, it's up to each individual to decide if your scenario is better than waking up in the middle of the night when #1 gets empty but knowing that #2 is still there and full. Knowing me, if I went your way I'd forget and end up with both tanks empty in the middle of the night. I need 'gentle reminders'. Ask my ex!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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