Vanman Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Our Toy is at the Toyota dealer getting much work done. Service manager says to use Mobil-1 5-30 wt for engine and red coolant,it's now green, and since we are getting all fluids changed, new ATF. He said there is no filter so all he wants to do is drain via the plug and re-fil. We have 85500 miles and if there is a filter I think it should be changed, which means dropping the pan. Is there a filter in this trans? is this the proper wt oil?? The original Toyota owners manual says Dexron II for ATF. I want to get this right as we're putting a lot of $ into this. John & Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted May 10, 2011 Share Posted May 10, 2011 Hello John and Mary, The transmission really does not have a filter, but instead a metal screen. You may want to hold off on the transmission fuild change until you read the various postings on the pros/cons of changing the automatic transmission fuild. In a nutshell, if your Toyota has had the transmission changed in the past, you probably will be okay with having the transmission fuild changed again. If you believe this is the first time, you may not want to change (flush as in 12 quarts) the transmission fuild, but instead just drain the pan (2 quarts). The reason for this is that modern transmission fuild has cleaning agents that work great, but the problem that you might face is that if your transmission is caked with "grim" from the last 20 years, the new fuild cleaning agents will break down the grim which sounds great, but it might overload your metal screen filter and clog it up, which could cause transmission damage. Again, I would recommend that you hold off on the tranmission fluid change until you read all the postings about it and until you know if your Toyota had it's transmission fuild changed in the past and when that was. Regarding the type of transmission fuild, it is Dexron II ATF. On my 1990, I only do a yearly pan drain (about 2 quarts). Also, Toyota (just like GM, Ford, etc) usually does not have the experience on any vechile over 10 to 15 years, so I would double check any suggestions they might offer. The 5w-30 weight oil is correct and any brand name should work for you, Mobile-1 is a good brand name. From reading coolant postings, I beleive that the blue stuff is better than the green stuff. Be sure they do a flush and not just a drain and fill. Be sure to get your rear differial fuild changed, API GL-5 80W-90, it should be 1.5 to 2 quarts. Also have your fuel filter replaced. Hope this helps, Dennis B. Our Toy is at the Toyota dealer getting much work done. Service manager says to use Mobil-1 5-30 wt for engine and red coolant,it's now green, and since we are getting all fluids changed, new ATF. He said there is no filter so all he wants to do is drain via the plug and re-fil. We have 85500 miles and if there is a filter I think it should be changed, which means dropping the pan. Is there a filter in this trans? is this the proper wt oil?? The original Toyota owners manual says Dexron II for ATF. I want to get this right as we're putting a lot of $ into this. John & Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted May 10, 2011 Author Share Posted May 10, 2011 <br />Hello John and Mary, <br /><br />The transmission really does not have a filter, but instead a metal screen. You may want to hold off on<br />the transmission fuild change until you read the various postings on the pros/cons of changing the automatic<br />transmission fuild. In a nutshell, if your Toyota has had the transmission changed in the past, you probably<br />will be okay with having the transmission fuild changed again. If you believe this is the first time, you<br />may not want to change (flush as in 12 quarts) the transmission fuild, but instead just drain the pan (2 quarts).<br />The reason for this is that modern transmission fuild has cleaning agents that work great, but the problem that<br />you might face is that if your transmission is caked with "grim" from the last 20 years, the new fuild cleaning<br />agents will break down the grim which sounds great, but it might overload your metal screen filter and clog it up,<br />which could cause transmission damage. Again, I would recommend that you hold off on the tranmission fluid change <br />until you read all the postings about it and until you know if your Toyota had it's transmission fuild changed in<br />the past and when that was. Regarding the type of transmission fuild, it is Dexron II ATF. On my 1990, I only<br />do a yearly pan drain (about 2 quarts).<br /> That's what he said to do, drain plug and refill only, so that's good. We were told the ATF had been changed and it looks and smells good, but better safe that sorry.<br /><br /><br />Also, Toyota (just like GM, Ford, etc) usually does not have the experience on any vechile over 10 to 15 years,<br />so I would double check any suggestions they might offer.<br <br /> Yeah,he didn't seem to know about the pop off vent on the differential, but thanks to this forum I do so he's gonna do that as well as new gear oil. We are having all the fluids changed. /><br />The 5w-30 weight oil is correct and any brand name should work for you, Mobile-1 is a good brand name.<br /><br />From reading coolant postings, I beleive that the blue stuff is better than the green stuff. Be sure they <br />do a flush and not just a drain and fill.<br /> He says red coolant, same as Subaru dealer uses on my Outback, haven't heard about a blue coolant, will do more research<br /><br />Be sure to get your rear differial fuild changed, API GL-5 80W-90, it should be 1.5 to 2 quarts.<br /> Also have your fuel filter replaced.<br <br /> WOW, with all we're having done I cannot believe I forgot this!!!! /><br />Hope this helps, <br /><br />Dennis B.<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /> Thanks for the help, the plugs are ok, but wrong kind he says. They are platinum and they want to put in non-platinum?? they look great and the compression is; 1,2,3,6= 160#, 4&5= 155# , he says thats really good for that milage and an audio check says the valve clearences don't need to be done. By the time we're done it'l be too close to 3,000 $$ But I cannot work on it in the street around here and this dealer is highly reccommended.<br /> Again many thanks John & Mary... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bufbooth Posted May 11, 2011 Share Posted May 11, 2011 Hello, I think I mis-spoke on using the blue coolant over the Green. I was recently using Honda Blue coolant which is better then the old green coolant, but I think Toyota has a Red version, which should be better then the old Green. Also, after re-reading your original post, it sounds like Toyota was just going to do a pan drain (two quarts) vs a full 12 quart flush. I would go with the pan drain now and decide later about a full 12 quart flush. Dennis... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boots Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Hi Looks like sound advise, but I would like to add one note to this. Transmission oil is designed for a certain amount of use (abuse) and like all products has certain specifications and conditions that affect its performance. One issue that I do not see here is the operating temperature of the transmission oil. "Normal operating temperatures" for a transmission means that if the oil temperature stays below a certain temperature, then the fluid will continue to operate properly for the recommended period; howver, if the temperature rises up to its maximum range, then their is a correspondingly sharp drop in driving distance that can have dramtic affects on the transmission (read failure) - since most transmissions do not have a oil temperature guage, caution is to be exercised when transmission oil is be changed out. I personally change out all of my transmission oil once per year, and am about to install a temperature guage. The amount of money saved is negilable compared to rebuilding or replacing a transmission. Cheers Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted May 15, 2011 Author Share Posted May 15, 2011 <br />Hi<br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br />Cheers<br /><br /><br />Brian<br /><br /><br /><br /> Well we changed everything and dealer says with better coolant, leaks fixed, and synthetic oil it will run cooler and better. We'll see about that but since the tranny is cooled from the radiator as long as I can keep the temp gage normal, to the left of straight up, won't I be ok ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Our Toy is at the Toyota dealer getting much work done. Service manager says to use Mobil-1 5-30 wt for engine and red coolant,it's now green, and since we are getting all fluids changed, new ATF. He said there is no filter so all he wants to do is drain via the plug and re-fil. We have 85500 miles and if there is a filter I think it should be changed, which means dropping the pan. Is there a filter in this trans? is this the proper wt oil?? The original Toyota owners manual says Dexron II for ATF. I want to get this right as we're putting a lot of $ into this. John & Mary I am guessing you have a V6 -- yes it has a filter which really more of a screen. I changed mine (1993 warrior). Not to hard - take 2 bolts off dipstick (bracket), about 13 bolts off pan and it sags down enough to swing it to one side. The OE had no gasket, but a RTV type of glue. DO NOT DING Up the mating surface or bend the pan getting it off. The filter is head in by a few screws - easy in & out. My pan had a drain bolt so I drained the 2 quarts before dropping the pan. The AT holds about 8 quarts. To change it ALL can be done 3 ways: 1) Disconnect the outlet from the return line from the cooler and let the AT pump it out; 2) use power flush service or 3) drain the pan repeatedly . pro/cons; 1) gets it all out but risk running the internal pumps dry if one does not add new fluid fast enough ( I hear a quart every 6 seconds) and the possibility of breaking the return line. 2) power flushes have been reputed to break sludge varnish etc free in the tranny causing serious issues - like needing an overhaul 3) repeated changes only dilutes the old fluid - this is what I did . I ended up using 3 gallons of dextron 2. My AT had a cooler installed by a previous owner, the seal was original looking and the fluid was dark. It worked fine before & it still does. Other trivia; the replacement filters are about $20 available at Advance& autozone and include a gasket. Heat is what destroys the fluid - do not remember the critical temps but if you get that high the fluid cooks & so does the tranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Up to 100,000 miles @ 175F. http://www.autoshop1.../forms/AT06.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boots Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 <br /><br /><br /> Well we changed everything and dealer says with better coolant, leaks fixed, and synthetic oil it will run cooler and better. We'll see about that but since the tranny is cooled from the radiator as long as I can keep the temp gage normal, to the left of straight up, won't I be ok ??? Like I said the trick to keeping your transmission happy is to keep the fluid in the manufacturer's operating temperature range. Here is a typical comment from Yahoo auto blog; It is a partial quote and is by no means authouritative or complete, but it illustrates the point " Why Atf Wears Out An automatic transmission creates a lot of internal heat through friction: the friction of the fluid churning inside the torque converter, friction created when the clutch plates engage, and the normal friction created by gears and bearings carrying their loads. It doesn't take long for the automatic transmission fluid (ATF) to heat up once the vehicle is in motion. Normal driving will raise fluid temperatures to 175 degrees F., which is the usual temperature range at which most fluids are designed to operate. If fluid temperatures can be held to 175 degrees F., ATF will last almost indefinitely -- say up to 100,000 miles. But if the fluid temperature goes much higher, the life of the fluid begins to plummet. The problem is even normal driving can push fluid temperatures well beyond safe limits. And once that happens, the trouble begins. At elevated operating temperatures, ATF oxidizes, turns brown and takes on a smell like burnt toast. As heat destroys the fluid's lubricating qualities and friction characteristics, varnish begins to form on internal parts (such as the valve body) which interferes with the operation of the transmission. If the temperature gets above 250 degrees F., rubber seals begin to harden, which leads to leaks and pressure losses. At higher temperatures the transmission begins to slip, which only aggravates overheating even more. Eventually the clutches burn out and the transmission calls it quits. The only way to repair the damage now is with an overhaul -- a job which can easily run upwards of $1500 on a late model front-wheel drive car or minivan. As a rule of thumb, every 20 degree increase in operating temperature above 175 degrees F. cuts the life of the fluid in half! At 195 degrees F., for instance, fluid life is reduced to 50,000 miles. At 220 degrees, which is commonly encountered in many transmissions, the fluid is only good for about 25,000 miles. At 240 degrees F., the fluid won't go much over 10,000 miles. Add another 20 degrees, and life expectancy drops to 5,000 miles. Go to 295 or 300 degrees F., and 1,000 to 1,500 miles is about all you'll get before the transmission burns up. If you think this is propaganda put forth by the suppliers of ATF to sell more fluid, think again. According to the Automatic Transmission Rebuilders Association, 90% of ALL transmission failures are caused by overheating. And most of these can be blamed on worn out fluid that should have been replaced. On most vehicles, the automatic transmission fluid is cooled by a small heat exchanger inside the bottom or end tank of the radiator. Hot ATF from the transmission circulates through a short loop of pipe and is thus "cooled." Cooling is a relative term here, however, because the radiator itself may be running at anywhere from 180 to 220 degrees F.! Tests have shown that the typical original equipment oil cooler is marginal at best. ATF that enters the radiator cooler at 300 degrees F. leaves at 240 to 270 degrees F., which is only a 10 to 20% drop in temperature, and is nowhere good enough for extended fluid life. Any number of things can push ATF temperatures beyond the system's ability to maintain safe limits: towing a trailer, mountain driving, driving at sustained high speeds during hot weather, stop-and-go driving in city traffic, "rocking" an automatic transmission from drive to reverse to free a tire from mud or snow, etc. Problems in the cooling system itself such as a low coolant level, a defective cooling fan, fan clutch, thermostat or water pump, an obstructed radiator, etc., will also diminish ATF cooling efficiency. In some cases, transmission overheating can even lead to engine coolant overheating! That's why there's a good demand for auxiliary add-on transmission coolers." Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 All sounds good to me. Kind of amazing that things like this never give the Author's name or References though! http://autos.yahoo.c.../ques123_0.html But that's just me. It's certainly repeated enough on the 'net, so let's just hope it really is true!! http://www.google.ca...Cw&start=0&sa=N But missing from the original is the following: "For optimum protection, change the fluid and filter every 30,000 miles (unless you have a vehicle that is filled with Dexron III ATF which is designed to be good for 100,000 miles)." Sure would be nice to have a source for this info! Sounds like advice from someone pushing his transmission services!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acudoc Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 As for the oil, I had to bring my own to the dealer. 20/50 high mileage. I have only 43,000 but was burning some oil even though it had regular 3000m changes. Now no more oil burning for 3,000 miles. The rep said and he was right that would fix it. Even with low mileage everything is older, seals etc. So I use high mileage oil. Our Toy is at the Toyota dealer getting much work done. Service manager says to use Mobil-1 5-30 wt for engine and red coolant,it's now green, and since we are getting all fluids changed, new ATF. He said there is no filter so all he wants to do is drain via the plug and re-fil. We have 85500 miles and if there is a filter I think it should be changed, which means dropping the pan. Is there a filter in this trans? is this the proper wt oil?? The original Toyota owners manual says Dexron II for ATF. I want to get this right as we're putting a lot of $ into this. John & Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 The biggest heat producer is the converter they slip they all do (unless it is a lock up type and even if they are not in lock up they slip) and more so at high way speed if you want to protect the trans add a external cooler the biggest one that will fit. Changing the fluid with high mileage is not a good ideal new fluid not only washes stuff out of places it has gotten used to but also has a tendency to take the facings off the clutches the gook does provide some degree of protection. If you change the fluid (flushing it) try some synthetic fluid it stands up to heat better. Transmissions will run close to engine temp no matter what you do after all they are bolted to it and cooled by the same water the engine is. The Toyota trans has a screen for a filter they are cleanable so unless they are torn they are fine for the life of the trans. Some thing around 30K is a good base for changes I would not worry at 40K but 80K really is pushing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 When I got my toy the trannie fluid looked like mocha. I found a local shop that had a system for exchanging the fluid with out power flushing it. It was a clear plastic cylinder about 10" in dia and 4ft long. It had a floating piston in it, so they pumped in about 16 qts of new fluid, then hooked up both transmission lines, the output to the empty side of the setup and the input to the side with the new fluid. Started the engine up and the transmission pumped the old fluid in to the cylinder and the piston pushed the new fluid into the transmission. After about 14qt or so the fluid coming out was clear, so they shut off the engine and reconnected the lines. Neat way of doing things without over pressuring the transmission Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted May 18, 2011 Author Share Posted May 18, 2011 <br />The biggest heat producer is the converter they slip they all do (unless it is a lock up type and even if they are not in lock up they slip) and more so at high way speed if you want to protect the trans add a external cooler the biggest one that will fit. Changing the fluid with high mileage is not a good ideal new fluid not only washes stuff out of places it has gotten used to but also has a tendency to take the facings off the clutches the gook does provide some degree of protection. If you change the fluid (flushing it) try some synthetic fluid it stands up to heat better. Transmissions will run close to engine temp no matter what you do after all they are bolted to it and cooled by the same water the engine is. The Toyota trans has a screen for a filter they are cleanable so unless they are torn they are fine for the life of the trans. Some thing around 30K is a good base for changes I would not worry at 40K but 80K really is pushing it.<br /><br /><br /><br /> When we got it the oil and ATF looked really good. I just wanted to start from a point where we knew at what time and mileage the last change was, this whole process has turned out mucho more complicated that I had ever dreamed!!!! It's back today at the Toyota dealer as when I picked it up saturday all the tires were between 29 to 35 Lbs. and several of the replaced valve stems several are not at the center of the triangular wheel cut-out. The left front was so far off I could not get a tire pressure gage into it !! We had asked for them to put the wheels back in their original positions, for apperance sake, which they had not done. Also the dealer does not have the wheel mandrell to balance the new tires so they sent it out to another party, who used some sort of internal-to-the-wheel 4-jawed device to clamp it. I noticed this as they let what was the spare slip and it made groove cuts in the wheel. I don't think they are deep enough to be a structural problem, but am gonna have them make that the spare again so I can sand and paint it. All the lug nuts were too tight, I couldn't get any of them off with a 1/2 in breaker bar bouncing up and down on it and I weigh 185 #'s. All the other work was done by the a mechanic, who has been there a long time and knows these trucks, he showed us a bunch of things to look for, broken wheel stop bolt left front, and he fixed em all. We feel good about the quality of his work, but there is a remark in one of tire posts about "tire changers" that fits here. It's ready now, wish me luck. vanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 18, 2011 Share Posted May 18, 2011 I've been known to refer to them as 'tire monkeys' before. The lug nut torque is spec'd at 170ft-lbs, IIRC. Quite a bit higher than your typical wheel. Add to that a bit of 'stiction' and you might want to add a cheater for your 1/2" breaker bar. Or bulk up a bit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted May 19, 2011 Author Share Posted May 19, 2011 <br />I've been known to refer to them as 'tire monkeys' before.<br /><br />The lug nut torque is spec'd at 170ft-lbs, IIRC. Quite a bit higher than your typical wheel. Add to that a bit of 'stiction' and you might want to add a cheater for your 1/2" breaker bar. Or bulk up a bit!<br /><br /><br /><br /> Well this monkey bites!! I got it back, the rep said torqued to 142 ft#'s and 60 # psi each, wheels better, we'll take it. Go home check tire pressures all at 60 # I'm thinking it all good till I notice on the outside rt rear the nice metal valve caps I use is replaced by a plastic one. Ok so I goes and gets a nice new metal cap outa stock and I cannot get it to go on. An inspection mirror and flashlite reveals the nice new shiny brass stem is bent, threads buggered. I removed it and put the spare on and am glad I did as it's not even round anymore and is distorted such that I am sure the valve core is no longer removable. I would not drive a car with a wheel in this condition. Now I inspect all the others and instead of rotating them to proper fit the ones off were simply bent, but not damaged. This is confirmed by the shop work order that states " used vise grips to bend stems, put tape on jaws to finish ". I await the response from Toyota but I am taking the wheel and tire to another shop to look at it tomorrow. I will probably use them to replace the stem as this can be done without having to re-balance the wheel. If the Toyota dealer isn't willing to give me a new one I wil re-use one of the old ones as they seem to be in excellent condition except for the O ring , which shows slight permanent flattening top and bottom from being compressed for 20 years. I'm gonna measure it to see exactly how much this is and measure the compressed well size, probably doesn't need to be replaced anyway. So if we don't show up at the TOY-IN you'll know at least we tried, really really really tried. John & mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 All this at a Toyota Dealer? Wow! Anyway, I just looked in my '91 Owner's Manual and it lists the torque spec for 'rear dual wheels' at 170ft-lb. Tire pressures (185R14, 8PR) listed are 39F, 65R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted May 21, 2011 Author Share Posted May 21, 2011 <br />All this at a Toyota Dealer? Wow!<br /><br />Anyway, I just looked in my '91 Owner's Manual and it lists the torque spec for 'rear dual wheels' at 170ft-lb. Tire pressures (185R14, 8PR) listed are 39F, 65R.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> I was correct about the valve stem, I took it to Giusto Tire, where I bought the tires, and he had to break the outer end of the valve core to get it out and after close inspection it was also bent!!! I had them put one of the old stems back in after installing a new O ring and valve core. He was also suprised a "dealer" had done this. I asked him to check the balance of the tire while I was there and he tried every which way but couldn't mount those big wheels on any of his equip. Which is what the dealer said, he sent the wheels out to a "truck place" for balancing. After all that he wouldn't take any money!! I know where I'm buying my next set of tires from!!! I experimented with the breaker bar, the Toyota lug nut wrench, and my torque wernch. I have good feel for fasteners as I've been wrenching for many years and the torque wrench says I'm setting them by hand to 155/159 ft #'s. You can go more, but thats good to me. Something I've noticed over the years is that on all the cars and trucks I've had the lug nut wrench supplied by the manufacturer will remove a properly torqued lug nut if you use your foot on it hard. This also applies to the excellent extended wrench supplied by Toyota, but after using my Lincoln floor jack on the rear of the RV I'm going to get a bigger jack than the one it came with!!! vanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I called the 1-800 # on the side of a bottle of Mobil 1 5-30 oil twice, just to be sure, and talked to 2 reps. Both said the same, I should be using the 10-40 High Mileage oil, 10-30 would be OK but since I am using some oil the 10-40 would cut consumption some. They also agreed with the dealer that the Toyota synthetic oil is not for use on older motors, which is why the dealer says he stocks Mobli 1. Just to be sure I am going to drain, replace filter,gasket, and refill. BTW I did notice significantly more engine noise after the switch to the Mobli 1 some say this is normal , espically for older, high mileage motors, others say What??? What say you ?? Vanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm using 10x40 summer, 10x30 winter, whatever the auto store is selling the least expensive. I change oil and filter every 3 - 5000 miles JOhn Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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