flatspin Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Has anyone considered using a water-methanol injector to increase performance going up hill? I was just talking to the mechanic that works on my F-150, and he runs a little muscle-car shop. We talked about engine swaps, getting a 'built' version of the 3.0, etc. His suggestions were: - change the rear-end gearing - change the fuel filter every 10,000 miles - tune up more often and... consider water-methanol injection? http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=302 Seems like the benefit is cooling the intake and cylinders and increasing the air-density of the charge. My mechanic was pretty bullish on it... seems pretty tempting... can be tuned to only operate at or near WOT, and he seems to think as much as 15-25hp increase was possible. Thoughts? Experience? Snake oil? -andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 Water injection requires LOTS of compression to work. A super charger, turbo or 12.5:1 compression. On an 8.7:1 not so much. Heat is power, if your generating enough heat through one of the above then water injection will allow you to run full advanced timing with out detonation. With out the water you have to reduce the timing until the detonation stops and that causes a power loss. To reduce heat in an engine that is not detonating, that is also a power loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAatTheCape Posted March 22, 2011 Share Posted March 22, 2011 I would not touch it with the proverbial 10 foot pole. If you want more performance you need to buy more camper. Has anyone considered using a water-methanol injector to increase performance going up hill? I was just talking to the mechanic that works on my F-150, and he runs a little muscle-car shop. We talked about engine swaps, getting a 'built' version of the 3.0, etc. His suggestions were: - change the rear-end gearing - change the fuel filter every 10,000 miles - tune up more often and... consider water-methanol injection? http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=302 Seems like the benefit is cooling the intake and cylinders and increasing the air-density of the charge. My mechanic was pretty bullish on it... seems pretty tempting... can be tuned to only operate at or near WOT, and he seems to think as much as 15-25hp increase was possible. Thoughts? Experience? Snake oil? -andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Although this is certainly possible, I would question if the gains are really worth the efforts. 1) Procurement and Installation costs 2) Operator intervention (How much driver needs to do to activate / deactivate, etc) 3) Availability time (how much juice can you carry) 4) Maintenance costs (filling, carrying extra fluid) 5) Reduced reliability of engine/drivetrain components. 6) Compatibility with existing systems i.e. ECU, sensors, Cat Converter, etc. 7) Modification of existing systems to allow the operator to change timing and fuel ratio to accept two different fuel systems. Someone already pointed out the need to change timing and fuel ratio when injecting. 8) Questionable gains - On a 40 mile climb up a 6% grade, would probably mean the difference between 2nd gear at 30 mph and 2nd gear at 35 mph. On these climbs, simply fall in behind the line of a big rigs doing the climb at 25-30 mph and enjoy the scenery. If these systems were truly advantages, you would see them on every towing rig. Personally, I believe they're great for turning heads at a stop light or the 1/4 mile, but aren't worth the expense and effort in everyday life. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 9) Where the heck do you buy methanol? But 30mph (or 35mph) up a 6% grade with a V6? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Ops, Sorry, Thats my 4 banger. Can't wait to go over the I-80 pass east of Salt Lake City, or Donner Summit between Sacramento and Reno (both are 7,000ft plus altitude) Or westbound on I-70 west of Denver. Probably could have went faster with the foot to the floor but then you weave in and out and piss everybody off when your passing a truck doing 40 mph and the truck is doing 39.5 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I've climbed Parleys Summit several times with my 4cy. I go up at 40-45 in 2nd gear. I use 4500 rpm as my max RPM when in lower gears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 Like WME said unless you have a pretty well built engine there is no real need for water injection. Just about any gas engine will tolerate 5% water but unless you are dealing with a spark knock issue there is not any gain by injecting water. Water cools the cylinders there by reducing pre ignition. Check out diesel tractor pulls the gray smoke you see is a lot of steam from water injection mixed with diesel smoke but we are talking about engines making 1,000 HP when they only started life as a 250 HP engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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