Bye Bye Propane

[crasster]

So far in my rebuild project I've rebuilt several things.

One of the thing was the cabinet area around the range. While I was in there, I figured I would not do much baking in the rig and if I wanted to bake, I'd bring a small toaster oven. So I pulled the rather heavy range out.

So then I was determined since our fridge was bad and I was going to replace it with a dorm fridge to pull ALL the propane out. I guess I just figured "why mess with having to refill it, leaks etc.".

So I'm replacing the water heater with a Bosch 2.5 gallon (or 4 gallon) electric 110V.

I'm pulling the furnace and will enjoy heat from space heaters or overhead heat. (When traveling in extreme cold we'll bring a portable propane tank & Big Buddy heater)

For stove usage we are going to just keep a "hot plate" / 1 or 2 burner plug in "thing".

Also, we can keep the fridge cold while driving because we have the dorm fridge that works on 110V hooked up to a small inverter. The fridge uses 140 watts only. So we'll have a nice cold "RV fridge" powered from the alternator going down the road that was only $120.

The propane tank I guess I'll just drop out & save the RV some weight. Perhaps I'll install some kind of storage box behind the "door area" where the propane is now. I guess this job is pretty straight forward without any major concerns (yes the propane tank is 100% empty).

Has anybody else done something like this? Pull all the propane & just decided to go off electricity? Experiences or tips?

[86rader]

if your propane use was minimal to begin with and the majority of your camping is done plugged into shore power at campgrounds, this might be a smart move. if not, it's not so smart, imo.

propane is used because it is a very lightweight way of carrying energy. carrying your energy via battery or giving your alternator more to do is not such a good idea. also, some campgrounds don't allow use of their plug ins for heating, be it house heat or water since these things use lots of power.

[flatspin]

seems a shame to me. there are so many beautiful destinations that don't have hookups, and propane can let you go a very very very long time off the grid.

[Fred3]

Here's my 2 cents...

We took the 30 day trip last November, each night either in an RV park (KOA or similar). Bought the unit 6 weeks or so before the trip. Never got the propane appliances sorted out so we (in effect) took the whole trip without propane. Our "style" is to take hot showers each day which is what makes a KOA desirable. Never cracked the propane tank valve open one time. For me, the motorhome while traveling is not to save money. It is for convenience, cleanliness, and a slower pace. I've found I that if it is a long trip, driving a car at 75 mpg and 30mpg, and a nice hotel each night are close to the same price as our RV style.

We used a single burner hotplate and a microwave. We cook hot cereal each morning for breakfast, use an electric citrus juicer for orange/grapefruit juice. We use the Garmin to locate a suitable restaurant for lunch or else have sandwiches. Dinner includes nachos heated in the microwave or something in a skillet on the hot plate. Hot water is electric for doing dishes and we use the camp showers.

Used a small electric space heater, which worked fine even down to temps into the low 20's at night.

Granted this was fall season, and cooler, so the fridge remained cold while unplugged from shore power.

I'm not going to have a flame burning (pilot) at a gas stop, which is every 200 miles, so the propane while driving is shut off anyway.

Also, I don't travel away from the Pacific coastal areas (cool marine weather) during summer months.

I don't have an electric element in the hot water heater, but did for a different RV. Worked great!

In the future I plan to camp in local areas without electric, and the propane will be used.

Fred3

[WME]

In the last 4 years, I camped in an RV park 3 times, and stayed in a hotel 1 time.

Without Propane all the national forest here in WY would be just day trips instead of 2 or 3 day long mini vacations.

[bajadulce]

Some of the high tech campers actually don't use any propane. They use 12v DC refrigeration as well as diesel cooking and heating (obviously campers on a diesel power train).

If you have access to the power, makes good sense to me to not bother with propane. Tho cooking on a hotplate and a microwave for dinner would seem a bit limited in what you can cook? Maybe I just don't know tho. I do love nachos and quesadillas tho

We have a friend who owns a 35' motorhome with 2 slip outs. He probably paid over 150K for the thing. Great guy and I absolutely love meeting up with him at the local "campground" whenever he invites. Sat TV, inhouse vacuum, washer/dryer, a bed for everyone, huge BBQ's, craploads of fine wine, beer, swimming pools, jacuzzi's, pool halls, .. fun stuff! I don't think he uses much propane either now that I think about it.

Like WME and flatspin say tho, all depends on what you call "roughing it". Definitely will have to use some other form of power when you get away from those services, but you already said that. I'd have to agree with you tho, if you don't need to use propane, then why bother. If you can get everything you need from electric hookup, I'd prob do the same.

[waiter]

I would say, If this is your life style, and your not interested in resale. go for it.

110Vac hookup can do pretty much anything, Heat, Frig, cooking, etc. Might be a problem with Camp sites being able to supply that much current.

No propane could have a significant impact on resale value. no dry camping as propane would be a good source for heat, frig, cooking,

But, as I say, Its your Toyhouse, customize till your hearts content.

[Maineah]

I don't think I could go with out propane I like a hot shower and I like to cook that of course means a fridge because I'm not all ways near power for as much as a week at a time and I see no sense starting the generator to cook food. When I have power I might use the toaster oven/convection oven but that's about it. I did take the oven out and use the space for storage but I still have a 2 burner cook top.

[Rolling TMCI]

Wow, this thread is is so wishy washy, I too was thinking of going with at least a elec water heater, and fridge , but now I just don't know. Reason being for the water heater has a leak, and elec is much cheaper to buy over the counter. Unless someone has a used one for sale ( 6 gallon) . Lmk.

[Gulfstream Greg]

One of the thing was the cabinet area around the range. While I was in there, I figured I would not do much baking in the rig and if I wanted to bake, I'd bring a small toaster oven. So I pulled the rather heavy range out.

The ranges weigh only about 40 pounds

For stove usage we are going to just keep a "hot plate" / 1 or 2 burner plug in "thing".

Also, we can keep the fridge cold while driving because we have the dorm fridge that works on 110V hooked up to a small inverter. The fridge uses 140 watts only. So we'll have a nice cold "RV fridge" powered from the alternator going down the road that was only $120.

Hot plates need 12 gauge wiring so make sure the plug you use does have 12 gauge wiring back to the circuit breaker and not 14 gauge.

Are you sure that its 140 watts?

Personally I would never remove the propane appliances. We live in an area that looses power all the time, our house can survive off the grid and so can our RV. Especially in the faces of disasters. Anyhow I suppose if you are only going to stay in a RV park with power available then you will be OK. And as someone else said wif you ever want to sell it. 99% of your lookers will walk away.

[crasster]

The ranges weigh only about 40 pounds

Hot plates need 12 gauge wiring so make sure the plug you use does have 12 gauge wiring back to the circuit breaker and not 14 gauge.

Are you sure that its 140 watts?

Personally I would never remove the propane appliances. We live in an area that looses power all the time, our house can survive off the grid and so can our RV. Especially in the faces of disasters. Anyhow I suppose if you are only going to stay in a RV park with power available then you will be OK. And as someone else said wif you ever want to sell it. 99% of your lookers will walk away.

Yes the fridge uses only 140 watts. I've put in on a kill-a-watt meter and watched it for some time. When compressor kicks in, its only 140w. Otherwise much less.

Yeah I hear the talk about the propane. The thing is I don't think we could do much dry camping. We have 5 children (I'll start a thread on our solution later for the small space), I can't imagine going more than 1 night without power.

We pretty much eat raw foods, fruits, veggies, raw nuts, raisins etc., so most of the 1 night short trips we wouldn't even need the fridge. For long trips, since the dorm fridge is so insulated, we were planning on freezing ice in large bags on the road while driving if we are planning to boon dock for the night (or wal-mart parking lot if transiting interstate and need a few hours sleep). This way the ice would keep the fridge "cool", along with the other items that are cool during the sleep hours (4-6 hours tops for me). Once the truck is turned back on, immediately the fridge begins to cool (and this thing cools fast!).

Hot water is simple. 2.5 to 4 gallon water heaters usually recover in 20 minutes. This amount of water is also mixed with regular "cold" water. So a good quick shower to get clean and there won't be problems. (we had a popup with a shower before and our gray water at the most was 3 gallons per person, per shower.

Hot plates / electric skillets can indeed use power as can crock pots. The large flat skillet we have in our kitchen is about 800 watts of power. (7-8 amps)

So all in all I think that any site with a 30 amp plug in will do us just fine. We may just have to be careful on certain instances such as if we are heating hot water 7 amps, running full blast A/C (14 amps), Converter charge 4 batts (mine pulls 3 amps), fridge (Less than 2 amps), and then decide to turn on a hot plate or something like that.

However, here is the funny part. Most Texas state parks along with most of the campgrounds that I see have separate breakers. Some have what looks to be a 30amp breaker, then next to it there is a common household 15 amp plug that has its own fuse. I was just thinking of running an extension cord and using that 15 amp plug as well for perhaps the water heater along (it's in a good EASY spot for it) (The total plug ins can handle 45 amps, but they sell it as a 30 amp site).

Of course, there is always careful consideration for those places that just have 30 amp camp sites. Like turn the A/C to "low cool" while using the water heater. etc.

What also sold me on the idea was:

1) Propane you have to fill it - $

2) My fridge was broken, and a new RV one was nearly $850. Wally world large dorm fridge with freezer - $149

3) The range looked like junk and we won't bake on the road. Funny because it looked brand new inside the door, which probably meant nobody else did either.

4) 12V for boon docking. I have 2 6V golf cart batteries wired in series to the generator. Fine for lights & small fans for a night. Could even run the fridge off the 12V system as well with inverter. The two batteries are rated at 210 amp hours each (YEAH RIGHT!) so I assume 200 amp hours together. After conversion to A/C through a small inverter to the fridge, I could probably run it all night once the compressor kicks off with 12V. (I really like golf cart batteries!) This includes the loss in the conversion process. Plus lights and fans. Of course I am speaking if we are boon docking for 1 night. No hot plate, no A/C. Once the truck starts or generator, batteries start charging.

5) If we need to cook, fire up the generator while boon docking. If in a National forest, use the camp fire (when permitting).

For my personal situation, I don't see too many downsides. In fact if I also think of the leaks & possible dangers of propane with all my kids & wife, it just sounded like more of a headache.

But YEAH I can completely see why some of you who go for days to the National Forests wouldn't get rid of their propane.

Now with that said... Resell value. I suppose it could affect the resell value some. However, being a 1987 Dolphin and considering we are planning on having it for a while (I hope), I don't think it will have much of a resell value anyway.

We paid $2900 for the RV, and have put almost exactly $1000 into it. That includes a New A/C with heat, Toilet, Fridge, Floor, Starter (from ebay cheap!), & converter. I had the batteries for the generator.

In the end I estimate we will have a grand total of $1300-1500 on the rebuild. I'll be sure to post photos of it soon!

I hope I'm not forgetting something or ghost power draws. Thanks!

[bajadulce]

A lot of these RV's have miles of plumbing and gas lines that's for sure. You might consider investing in a little portable 1 gallon propane tank and a small 2 burner coleman stove for those rare times you find yourself away from power and want to cook something. What's nice about a portable stove is you can store it away (since you won't be using it much) and use it outside as well. A really good setup is the propane tree with the lantern on top & hose for stove. Propane lanterns are pretty hard to beat that's for sure. You definitely would want a lantern if you have kids.

My own camper uses a portable stove. When I camp somewhere, I usually camp for a LONG time so it's not something that needs setting up/putting away much. It also doesn't bang around as much while traveling down bumpy roads. What's nice about a portable stove, is replacements are cheap and they are easy to clean.

[Martha]

Very good post. I just got my first TOY. Virginity lost. I am in love. (again) An 89 Oddysey in great condition for $3500! A freakin steal! This was done by haunting Craigslist for ONE YEAR! (and with a little luck and a prayer). I would rather have had it sooner, but just did not have the whole peanut at the right times.(and I was picky) Too many flippers out there trying to make a quick buck. You have to be the first one in the door or forget it. I just got LUCKY, for once!

The last owners took out the oven/stove., to put it in their "new" 1999 $30,000 Rig, but they gave me a very nice -brand spankin-new burner top. Do I need an oven....hmmm? I can buy an Angel food cake at Costco. (and cookies) but that is a great space for a PRINTER! Thats what I like! (have the Microwave anyhows)

I hate cooking odors inside my beautiful 4000 sq ft, home... so I am sure I will hate it more inside this.

Can''t I pack a picnic table stove?

better yet...

OUTBACK?

Mc D's'

or even just PB&J?

Heat... yeah this is a thought.

100+ S0cal summers... that''s my main concern though.

I have 3 little-4-5lb Maltese babies- so motels were just a chore. ( all that lyin and sneakin)

I am now concerned with all the tedious hours heat-gunning off all the faded/crispy old pinstripes, and re-wallpapering the interior,adding in surround sound for-him.

Off the Grid? Yeah I don't want to ever give that option up, even if it never happens. Seen "Red Dawn" way too many times.

Propane stays, and It is probably a must for that "off the grid" possibility, but maybe even that is a coddled existance.

decisions....

I found the Manual in PDF on the internet. About as useful as a third tit.

[Derek up North]

Welcome to the Forum. I bought for the multiple dog's convenience too. Simple is good in my books, but I draw the line at McDs!

[waiter]

Welcome

I'm with you regarding the oven. I haven't looked into it, but if there is a way to leave the stove top and remove the oven, its done. I would put my microwave where the oven is, and free up that counter space.

Again Welcome

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Maineah]

Greg brought up a good point the outlets are wired with #14 wire the A/C with #12 electric heating uses a lot of watts all of the outlets are a home run (goes to the same breaker) that means a max of 1650 watts for all the outlets combined.

[Maineah]

Welcome

I'm with you regarding the oven. I haven't looked into it, but if there is a way to leave the stove top and remove the oven, its done. I would put my microwave where the oven is, and free up that counter space.

Again Welcome

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

Nope sorry there is nothing under the burners except for the top of the oven. A new two burner cooker is about $100 unfortunately that involves a new counter top too but hey you have gone this far might as well completely rebuild every thing. How come every thing starts as a simple project?