Am I nuts ??

[gpchoochoo]

After OCD'n on it for a week I think I am going to put a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protecter, 2 AMG batteries and a Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger in my 90 Odyssey.

Should be around 1700 for parts. We think it will get us through the 2 days we use it hiking around here including making 2 pots of coffee and 3 hours of tv and dvd, lights, water pump and such.

Part of my says WONDERFUL love improvements and doing them, but part of me says 1700 dollars , I must be nuts.

Any opinions ? While the Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger is kind of over kill a tad bit it does seem to be the best deal and bang for the buck. The 100 amp charger and AMG batteries should be a fast charge

on the Onan 4 KW genset it has in it should the need arise to recharge on the road. Plus we drive alot to the trailheads and stuff. Only had the Yota 3 months but have been in 8 states and 5400 miles and love it more now then

when we got it.

So sound like a good idea ?? Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks Gary

Update Jan,22 2011- Photos of the install are in Members Albums under The Big Inverter Install . Also a small explanation of what each photo is. If anyone has any questions I would be happy to share what I learned doing this.

Update-2 March 21, 2011 Well Lifeline says the batteries will be up to full speed in 20-30 charges. After 9 ours are doing a great job. Did 3 day hiking/biking trip heater on for 2 days and 4 pots of coffee and the lights at night and the inverter shows the batteries to be at 73%!!!!

Far better then I had hoped for. Ran the genset for 1 hour on the drive home which brought the charger down to the absorption at 23 amps. The bulk charge ran for 28 minutes. So a quick top off with the 120 from my house and we are ready for the next trip.

Still working on how to charge with the truck alt

Update #3 Nov. 16, 2011 Well we are tring our best to wear out our Toy. The battery / inverter Is all I had hoped for. Went with the high dollar Sterling Power Battery to Battery smart charger and much to my surpise the little toy alt. is keeping the bateries in a fine state of charge.

Seems the only time I run the genset is to give it a work out. And since getting the batteries in we never use campgounds. Wally world is our new second home !!! Hope everyone is having as much fun with their Toy House as we are.

[bufbooth]

From one 1990 Odyssey owner to another, you might be nuts, but then again I might be too!...:-)

$1,700 is a lot of money for another way to run some applications, since you already

have a generator. What on the list adds up to $1,700? I just picked up a name brand (but probably

far from the best) 1000 watt inverter for $80 that directly connects to a battery. With what you

have listed that you plan on using...I am guessing an extra battery and 1000 watt inventor should

be able to handle 90% of the needs while letting the generator cover any gaps.

Just a thought, and please keep us updated on what you decide, always like to hear about custom

setups.

Dennis B.

After OCD'n on it for a week I think I am going to put a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protecter, 2 AMG batteries and a Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger in my 90 Odyssey.

Should be around 1700 for parts. We think it will get us through the 2 days we use it hiking around here including making 2 pots of coffee and 3 hours of tv and dvd, lights, water pump and such.

Part of my says WONDERFUL love improvements and doing them, but part of me says 1700 dollars , I must be nuts.

Any opinions ? While the Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger is kind of over kill a tad bit it does seem to be the best deal and bang for the buck. The 100 amp charger and AMG batteries should be a fast charge

on the Onan 4 KW genset it has in it should the need arise to recharge on the road. Plus we drive alot to the trailheads and stuff. Only had the Yota 3 months but have been in 8 states and 5400 miles and love it more now then

when we got it.

So sound like a good idea ?? Any suggestions are welcome.

Thanks Gary

[gpchoochoo]

Well I figure if I am going to do it I might as well make it able to keep us from needing the genset. So that would include the popcorn in the microwave (1050 watt draw), 2 pots of coffee, etc.

Plus since we hike in the winter we will be watching 3 hours or so of dvd's ect. So by getting the bigger inverter we can run the coffee maker and microwave. Inverter $915 shipped.

Also the inverter also has nicer large charger which is a plus.

2 AGM batteries - most likely will cost 400-450 for the 2. I think AGM is best for us because they can take advantage of the larger genset we have to charge with, so on the odd times we need to charge the genset will run a good bit less.

Because I will have to make a new spot for the battiers the AGM's will be so much easier due to not needing the venting the others do. Also without installing some sort of sliding battery tray watering them would be quite the chore.

I'am going to get the Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C to protect everything in the house no matter what else we do. $250.

Since this will be a like new install ( I only have the 1 marine battey under the sink) I figure it will take $200-250 in wire, ends, fuses ect.

After doing my best to figure what it will take to do everything we need for a long week-end hiking trip I think this will cover it.

I looked at not running the micro and coffee maker off an inverter but when you figure in a good battery charger, smaller inverter for the tv and maybe a second battery what I have above really

doesn't cost that much more.

We have the real lounge and the 4.0 Onan is under the couch and it turns the whole house into a humming massage chair. It's not really that bad to put up with but if we can get away from it

for a few hundred more then we figured go for it. And I am sure anyone nearby would be happy not to hear my genset running. Alot of spots you are not allowed to run it at all or very limited times.

And you know when you need your coffee you need your coffee !!!!!

The converter is in the wall just inside the door and goes into the bottom of the closet and due to the large size of the inverter I think it will have to go there. The batteries may have to stay under the sink.

Should be around 6 feet between the 2 which I think is a tad long but will be ok. Might see if I can get the batteries in the closet also but not sure of the weight being on that side and also the fuel fill tube angles across the bottom of the closet

which makes it a challenge. Really need to get the pieces and then figure out how to fit them in.

I tried looking for a 1250 or 1500 watt inverter but it seems to me the Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger is the best deal / value. I also feel a pure sine wave is the way to go since we are looking at running the micro and tv.

It would kick my butt to put in a modified sine wave and it screw with either the micro or tv. I think this is really the only thing that cost more then it has too. But after going nearly blind reading about it all it seems best thing to do.

Thanks fo any input !!!

Gary

[Maineah]

Wow I'm thinking a small inverter and a laptop to watch DVDs then a tea kettle and a French press to make coffee would be a lot cheaper! I don't know what you are considering for batteries but a pair of 120 amp batteries are going to weight 150#. Micro wave and the coffee pot together are going to draw some thing close to 1800 watts and thats 150 amps or more from the batteries better buy some big cables. AMG batteries are sealed but they do have a high pressure vent personally I don't think batteries in a living space is a good ideal.

[gpchoochoo]

I didn't mean the microwave and coffee at the same time !!! But you are right that would take some mean cables !!!!

I am thinking either under the sink with the batteries and in the bottom of the closet for the inverter or all of them in the closet.

But the AGM's can be laid sideway, on end or right way up. That may be handy. I still think AGM's are the way to go.

The inverter is somewhat over kill at 2000 watts but it should be running in its most efficient level. And when I take all

things into consideration, charger size, wattage, quality, how long I think it will last and price the Xantrex just seems best.

I really only need 1250 or 1500 watt inverter but for what seems to be the same money I can get this one.

It's hard being dumb but I do it well !!!!

Gary

[Gulfstream Greg]

Wow I'm thinking a small inverter and a laptop to watch DVDs then a tea kettle and a French press to make coffee would be a lot cheaper! I don't know what you are considering for batteries but a pair of 120 amp batteries are going to weight 150#. Micro wave and the coffee pot together are going to draw some thing close to 1800 watts and thats 150 amps or more from the batteries better buy some big cables. AMG batteries are sealed but they do have a high pressure vent personally I don't think batteries in a living space is a good ideal.

I agree. I have a small laptop that can play DVDs, tune HD TV channels, surf the Internet, its my mobile entertainment system. Runs 8 hours on a charge and I have an adapter that I can plug into 12vdc. Most of my lighting is LED. My wife makes coffee by boiling in a tea kettle then pouring a cup of coffee through a special gizmo that sits on top of the cup. Inverters waste a ton of energy in the conversion to 120vac. I think you might be under estimating the time it will take to recharge two agm batteries with the generator after you really run them down. If you microwave something how long does that take. The generator will have to run longer to recharge the batteries after running the microwave off of the inverter than just starting the gen for a little bit to run the micro directly and pop the popcorn. Plus the $$ amount, yeowy. Anyhow I think two agm batteries is a great idea but for me the additional cost and support needed to run an huge inverter is not worth the return. And as the batteries drop in charge the inverter is going to want even more amperage from the batteries to supply its output current.

Don't mean to sound negative, I just think inverters for everyday use is a bad idea.

[gpchoochoo]

First off Greg, thanks for taking the time to reply. Opinions are what I am looking for no matter which way they go.

My thinking is that I will need a good charger which comes with the inverter. Also after mapping out our electric needs for our short 1,2 or 3 day hiking/biking trips the 2 batteries should handle it without charging or running them past 50 %.

We only use the microwave for 2 bags of popcorn. total 6 minutes. And the fact that alot of places do not want the genset going ( including the "Boss") it seems an inverter is what best fills our exact needs. I do not plan on recharging with the genset often. More then likely just to give the genset a little workout. Most times the truck will do alot of the charging because we use the Toy House for hiking and put anywhere from 4 to 6 hours of drive time each trip. So I think mostly I will only plug it in to top off the batteries. I know the truck alt. is not a charger but will put the bulk charge in during the drive. I know that cuts down the mpg also. But there are trade offs in everything. If we are going to a campground with electric I can cut the charger off and just use the campground's juice to charge .

The inverter I am thinking about is 90 % efficient and if you add the 2 to 5 minutes of warm up and cool down for each time you use the genset it's really not gonna run much more even if I only used it to charge the batteries. It's gonna be the coffee maker that is hardest on the batteries and I have to say that while I was losing 120 pounds one thing I didn't give up was my drip coffee and I ain't gonna do it now either if I can help it !!!!!!

We feel the closer we can make the Toy house like our planted house the better.

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to reply.

Have a great day

Gary

I agree. I have a small laptop that can play DVDs, tune HD TV channels, surf the Internet, its my mobile entertainment system. Runs 8 hours on a charge and I have an adapter that I can plug into 12vdc. Most of my lighting is LED. My wife makes coffee by boiling in a tea kettle then pouring a cup of coffee through a special gizmo that sits on top of the cup. Inverters waste a ton of energy in the conversion to 120vac. I think you might be under estimating the time it will take to recharge two agm batteries with the generator after you really run them down. If you microwave something how long does that take. The generator will have to run longer to recharge the batteries after running the microwave off of the inverter than just starting the gen for a little bit to run the micro directly and pop the popcorn. Plus the $$ amount, yeowy. Anyhow I think two agm batteries is a great idea but for me the additional cost and support needed to run an huge inverter is not worth the return. And as the batteries drop in charge the inverter is going to want even more amperage from the batteries to supply its output current.

Don't mean to sound negative, I just think inverters for everyday use is a bad idea.

[Derek up North]

How far we've 'advanced' when we need 110v to make essentials like popcorn and coffee. I get lots of practice where I live with power outages that require me to make my essential morning coffee with no 110v. I keep 5 gallons of water in a jerrycan (no power, no well pump), boil the water in an alcohol fueled fondue pot and pour it through my old Melita coffee maker. I still do it this way, even though I've bought 3500w & 1500w gensets recently. Having propane hooked up (as in a Toyhome) would be downright luxurious! Popcorn in a pot on a stove? Icing on the cake!

[gpchoochoo]

But the point is I don't want to have to "make due or get by with". I want it just like in the house as much as I can.

That was the point of spending the 10,000 on the MH. We could have got by with a tent and pooping in the woods but didn't want that.

That's kinda the same idea with the inverter. I don't want to have to worry about how much carbon mono the stove is putting in the air inside

in the winter when we go hiking. So then you have to open the window for fresh air. Now you have to sit in a coat inside while you make coffee

then reheat the inside after you close the windows. Still seems to me the easiest way is the inverter. At 54 I dont wanna do things the tough way

if I can help it !!!!!!

Hey it just came to me the problem is with this, I asked the wrong question. I thought why is everyone tring to give me other ways to do it and it came to me because thats what I asked.

I should have been clear in what I was asking which is, I want it to be just like home , get up sit around in my PJ's and plug in the drip coffee maker,and watch a little tv on a regular sized tv

while the coffee is brewing without the whole house being vibrated by the genset. So the question should have been whats the best way to do that. An inverter is the only way to do that without being plugged in somewhere . In my somewhat worthless opinion after reading alot of things about it online a pure sine wave inverter is the best way to go. Not the cheapest but the best. 2 AGM batteries again not the cheapest but since the Toy houses really don't dont have any outside storage the best way And the Model EMS-HW30 is more then just a surge protecter. I got the Toy house 3 months ago and in my case someone had cranked the idle screw in so if I had plugged my tv in before I tested it I think it would have fried the tv. So I feel it's like an insurance policy of all the electric stuff inside including the inverter. Because it protects from not only surges but high (in my case) and low voltage and Hz it's a must have.

So did that clear things up or just confuse it ? I am known for doing stupid well with little or no effort !!!!

I still want to thank everyone who took the time to reply.

Have a great day all

Gary

PS next time I will ask the wifey if I am asking the right question, she's the smart one in our house !!!!

[Maineah]

You asked a question we answered I'm 64 I camped in a tent for years and went in the woods like a bear too. I like my little Toyota it's comfortable it has a shower, indoor plumbing, heat, A/C and a generator, stove and fridge that's more then enough for me if this is some thing you want to do go for it please post pictures. The Toyota alternator will not keep up with your batteries even if you drive 500 miles (remember your truck battery also) unless you can plug it in or run the generator to bring the batteries back to a semi full charge. I would suggest a bigger alternator like a 120 amp or more and I’m afraid you are going to have some belt slipping problems trying to charge low batteries generally large compact alternators are driven by a flat belt. The #8 wire going to the rear will not provide the necessary current flow you’ll need a heavy duty isolator and a #1 or #2 cable to the rear batteries. You are embarking on a fairly major project and I guess that is why we are scratching our heads a little bit. Big MH are usually set up for this kind of stuff twin 225 amp 6 volts or even 4 6 volts, big alternators, large chargers and wiring. I guess most of us are satisfied with what we have we are not try to discourage you just offer personal opinions of what we do for our camping needs.

[Derek up North]

I thought the original question was "Am I nuts??".

[Gulfstream Greg]

I thought the original question was "Am I nuts??".

That was it!

Bottom line is we all do it a bit different. I (We) live in the Santa Cruz mountains which are filled with 200 foot tall trees redwoods, oaks, Douglas fir etc that love to fall on the power lines. If we have a major storm with some wind we loose our power, sometimes for a day or so. We have a 7200 watt backup generator, hate the noise so we only run it to chill the refrigerator or watch the news. Our stove is propane and so is our water heater. We heat our house with wood. We have LED and battery fluorescent lighting for emergency use. If the power is out my wife makes coffee on the stove our heats a can of soup. Much of our home is translated over into our motorhome. We have carbon monoxide detectors in both the house and MH. They have never sounded an alarm. In the MH I removed the stove ventilation fan and replaced it with a super quiet 12vdc very large (200mm) PC fan. It won't blow your hat off but it will exhaust that nast stove air to the outside at just a whisper of sound and a window just cracked open. We don't have a generator in the MH but come next summer I may be carrying a Honda EU3000isa on the back bumper as they are quieter than a eu2000. It will probably be rarely used but it will be there. Do I really need it, probably not. Would I personally be better off with an inverter setup, no, I don't have a microwave or a coffee maker. Inverter technology and the power requirements is just not an area I want or need in our MH. The big inverters don't just require welding cables just for the oooo of it. They are serious power users hungry for amps.

Any how gpchoochoo please don't think any of use are telling you that you are indeed nuts because we are not saying that. My wife thinks I am nuts for having several Ham Radio antennas and a power panel with a dozen ham related gizmo's and really, the eu3000isa is more for emergency use and radio operation than anything else. I have 3 two way radios in the cab of the MH and can hook up many more at the table. So who is crazy?

So after you get this project all built and have tested it on a trip or two we want to know all the details good or bad. So please keep this thread alive. Perhaps I will make it a stcky!

[waiter]

I'm new to this (just bought a 88 Dolphin), I've been thinking about your exact same scenerio, and heres what I'm probably going to do:

I don't have a generator, my approach to the morning coffee and afternoon microwave was to use a 1500 watt inverter.

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/cobra_1500.html

Anytime I run the inverter for these high power items, start the main engine and let it help supply power to the coach battery

NOTE -I may purchase one of those 2000 watt honda inverter-generators and plug the toyhouse into it, still thinking about that approach.

JOhn

[Maineah]

I'm new to this (just bought a 88 Dolphin), I've been thinking about your exact same scenerio, and heres what I'm probably going to do:

I don't have a generator, my approach to the morning coffee and afternoon microwave was to use a 1500 watt inverter.

http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/cobra_1500.html

Anytime I run the inverter for these high power items, start the main engine and let it help supply power to the coach battery

NOTE -I may purchase one of those 2000 watt honda inverter-generators and plug the toyhouse into it, still thinking about that approach.

JOhn

Go with the generator you'll be glad you did makes life much eaiser.

[DanAatTheCape]

After OCD'n on it for a week I think I am going to put a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C surge protecter, 2 AMG batteries and a Xantrex Freedom SW 2000 inverter/charger in my 90 Odyssey.

my 2 cents worth:

you are over engineering.

you need a bigger camper. (these campers are really weekenders - even though many "rough it" for longer periods).

the batteries alone will kill your usable gross weight, then when you start your engine your alternator will work very hard charging all those batteries.

Sounds like it would be a nice system, but I would not do it.

[Maineah]

Close to 200# of batteries and cables, 2- T145 batteries around $400 decent 2000 watt inverter 3 to 4 hundred cables, over sized isolator maybe another $200 bigger alternator $150. Brand new Honda 2000 watt generator 50# $900 shipped to your door just add oil and gas no rewiring required.

[Gulfstream Greg]

you need a bigger camper. (these campers are really weekenders - even though many "rough it" for longer periods).

I think I might disagree with that. We have spent a week easily in ours and much of it with out shore power. I guess there are many interpretations of "Roughing It". Ran the 1200 watt generator for a couple hours to bring the battery back up. No problem!

So gpchoochoo whats the latest, got any wires in place , any testing yet?

[gpchoochoo]

Well I got it all in and used it twice and it works great so far. Still have to fine tune some stuff. Need to run a new wire for the starter on the genet and going to add one more 110 plug thats going to come right from the 110 shore power box.

I will put it all together soon and post it.

On the weight part I took out 68 pounds of converter and 1 marine battery and put in 132 pounds of battery (2 6 volt lifeline AGM) and 59 pounds of inverter.so I gained around 120 pounds total. Once I get another 10 gals of gas out of the rear gas tank that

will take care of most of the added weight. When I got the RV the rear tank was full (20 gallons) So I figure 5 gallons will be enough for the genset. 15 gals less = around 110 pounds so it will weight pretty much the same as it ever has to me.

The batteries and inverter are just a panel apart so the 3/0 wire I used is very short. Longest piece goes to the new bolt I welded onto the frame for the ground which is only 3 feet.

Only thing i dont much care for is if you have shore power hooked up the charger is charge'n and even if it's in the float stage it still runs the fans. They are not that loud but I wasn't expecting that. I thought you could cut the charger off.

I am thinking after the warrenty is up I will slip inside the inverter and put a switch so I can turn the charger off when I want too. Can't be that hard to do.

Also while most times we do 1 or 2 day hiking/biking trip we did 7 day 6 night run up through New York to see the leaves change and it was big as we needed even for that time. One thing though me and the wifey really get along great so the small

space is no problem for us. Now if it was my ex then I am sure one of us would be dead by now.

Hope everyone is have'n a great new year

Gary in Maryland

PS Due to the fact that the truck alt is not a battery charger and it's not regulated I am not hooking it up to the new batteries. If I could find a 12 volt source smart 3 stage charger that wasn't out the wazoo in cost I would try that but with no way to keep the alt from over charging the batteries I am just not gonna hook it up. Beside its not free power, you lose MPG what you work the alt hard, it's why engines slow when you hook to dead battery it becomes that much harder to spin the alt.

Edited January 6, 2011 by gpchoochoo

[Derek up North]

Thanks for the update.

As far as the extra fuel required to spin a hard working alternator, I doubt you'd notice much difference when you consider your engine is already moving 6000-7000lbs of 'barn-door' down the road.

[waiter]

746 Watts per HP

An Alternator putting out 50 amps at 14 volts

P = I x E

P = Watts

I = Amps

E = Volts

700 = 50 x 14

Just a little under 1 HP when the Alternator is pumping out 50 amps

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[gpchoochoo]

The point of not hooking to the truck alt was so I didn't overcharge the AGM batteries which it would. The alt output is higher then the float charge for AGM's so at some point you could start to overcharge.

The folks in the business that I spoke to all agreed that overcharging is bad and is the only way AGM's will outgas. It's important due to where I placed everything that the batteries do not outgas. So unless I can

find a reasonable 12 volt source smart ( 3 stage) charger I think it's best not to hook to the alt. The saving a little gas is just away of justifying my lunitic thinking.

Have a great new year

Gary in Maryland

[gpchoochoo]

Waiter that formula is for a perfect operating alternator under ideal setting and speed. When in real life the "Efficiency of automotive alternators is limited by fan cooling loss, bearing loss, iron loss, copper loss, and the voltage drop in the diode bridges; at part load, efficiency is between 50-62% depending on the size of alternator, and varies with alternator speed.^"

Quoted from

Horst Bauer (ed.) Automotive Handbook 4th Edition, Robert Bosch GmbH, Stuttgart, 1996, ISBN 0-8376-0333-1, page 813

Thats the problem with trying to use an alt to charge the batteries, there is no way of controling what it is doing. Besides being about voltage its also about amps which you can't control in the manner that the AGM batteries call for.

746 Watts per HP

An Alternator putting out 50 amps at 14 volts

P = I x E

P = Watts

I = Amps

E = Volts

700 = 50 x 14

Just a little under 1 HP when the Alternator is pumping out 50 amps

John Mc

88 Dolphin 4 Auto

[Maineah]

Gary a good charger/converter is less then $200 and a good investment. The stock unit is wired to the input side of your main breaker so like it or not it comes on when its plugged in it's a easy fix if you are comfortable with 120 volt wiring. When your batteries are connected together the alternator reads the voltage of all the batteries together they will equal out, the regulator is voltage dependent and the charge rate drops back as the voltage climbs so the current output drops also so I do not think you will have a problem with overcharging your batteries. In order to actually charge batteries the voltage has to be enough to over come the internal resistance of the battery the weaker it is the higher the resistance so a charge rate of 14 or more volts is not out of the question and not detrimental when a battery first starts to charge. Where in Maryland you from? I was born and raised in MD.

[dayoff53]

Well I got it all in and used it twice and it works great so far.

I've been enjoying following this thread. What it shows is that different folks want different experiences in their Toyhomes and there are ways to get what you want. You know what you want and, while others have different priorities and would answer your original query in the affirmative ("You're nuts!"), I say, "Go for it! I want to see pictures and wiring diagrams when you're done!" My lovely bride of nearly 31 years and I have had several low-end travel trailers over the years, but our '92 Winnebago Warrior 321RL is our first motorhome - and first RV since the kids left home. My wife wants a rig to travel in - eat in restaurants mostly, stick to paved roads, stay in full-hookup private campgrounds and have the option of staying in a motel for a night or two if we want. I want that - but I also want to get away from it all sometimes - boondocking in state and national forest campgrounds or no campground at all. For her kind of travel, the Warrior is great just as it is. For the boondocking - well, the Kohler 2.5 genny is old, stinky and noisy as oooo. It would sure be nice to have more battery power than the single 125 AH 12-volt marine battery that we have. While I'm thinking of it, a spare tire would be nice... and a bigger fuel tank, a back-up camera, an in-dash GPS, a bigger bed, a 26" LED TV and Blu-Ray player...

My brother - who has owned several motorhomes including an old Winnebago basement model class "A" and, most recently, a Winnebago View based on the Sprinter cab and chassis - really likes his creature comforts but almost never stays in a place with a full hookup. He is reworking his '90 SeaBreeze in much the same way you are - Got a 4 KW genny, a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter, fancy new converter/charger and 4 reconditioned 6-volt golf cart batteries (though he may just use 2 + the original 12-volt, at least to start). He is a master eBay-er and is getting great deals on most of his equipment, but it is still a pricey project and lots of work. I will envy his ability to run is microwave, TV, Blu-Ray player, etc. without ever firing up the genny, but then I think of all the gas and campground space I can buy for what his conversion is costing him, to say nothing of the added weight, and I think I will make do with my rig pretty much as is for now...

On the other hand, that in-dash double-din cd/dvd/Sirius/GPS/back-up camera unit that he is working on... now THAT's a goodie I really covet!

[wistoy]

I am in agreement with you! I like all the toys I can get, and I don't like the noise of a generator. I use solar panels and led lights minimize power consumtion. While we are at it how about installing elect. leveling system; I have not found a system small enough for clearance and wind drag.

I want to pull in to a site, level up, pull the awanging, set out chairs and have a beverage to relaxe after our drive. And be able to fold up and leave in minutes to run to town or see the sites.

[Derek up North]

While we are at it how about installing elect. leveling system; I have not found a system small enough for clearance and wind drag.

You'd be trading 'Weigh, weight, weight' for 'Wait, wait. wait.'

[waiter]

The HP calculation was meant to roughly show the impact Alternator use has on fuel consumption, a 50% efficiency for the Alternator would be a reasonable assumption.

To throw just a little more math,

Piston engines generally burn about .4 lbs of fuel per hp per hour.

Gasoline weighs about 6.2 lbs per gallon

2HP to run the Alternator (50 amps at 50% efficiency) for an hour should consume about .8 lbs of fuel, or about 1/8 of a gallon of fuel.

Oh Yah - "Your Nuts" But so are the rest of us, Welcome to the crowd. :-)

[gpchoochoo]

Well I did find a ARS-5, 12V, 3-step voltage regulator which would fit the bill for not over charging the batteries with the alternator but at $270 I am not sure I will need it.

Just what the doctor ordered for charging with the alternator in 3 stages and not over charging.. Hmmm I do have a birthday coming up though !!!!!

I can send my address to anyone who may be feeling generous or maybe just bumped thier head.

Gary in Maryland

[Derek up North]

Well, I can save you at least $21.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BALMAR-ARS-5-REGULATOR-ARS5-BALMAR-/270477813020?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3ef9bbe51c

[Maineah]

Well I did find a ARS-5, 12V, 3-step voltage regulator which would fit the bill for not over charging the batteries with the alternator but at $270 I am not sure I will need it.

Just what the doctor ordered for charging with the alternator in 3 stages and not over charging.. Hmmm I do have a birthday coming up though !!!!!

I can send my address to anyone who may be feeling generous or maybe just bumped thier head.

Gary in Maryland

Good site from a solar company they are stating that there is nothing special about charging AMG batteries. Some even say an AMG will take every thing an alternator will throw at them. http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm#AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

[gpchoochoo]

Sorry Maineah I have to go by what the battery maker says. I figure they know best. Quote

"The most efficient method of charging Lifeline® AGM batteries is to use a 3 stage charging

profile. In the first stage, a constant current is applied until the voltage reaches a pre-set limit.

The first stage is often called the Bulk charging stage. In the second stage, the voltage is held

constant at the same pre-set limit until the charging current tapers to a very low value, at which

point the battery is fully charged. The second stage is often called the Absorption charging

stage. A voltage limit of 14.3 volts ± 0.1 volts (7.15 ± 0.05 volt for a 6 volt battery) should be

used when the battery temperature is 77°F (25°C). The battery is fully charged when the

current drops below 0.5% of the battery’s rated capacity (0.5A for a 100Ah battery). In the third

stage, the charging voltage is reduced to a lower value that minimizes the amount of

overcharge, while maintaining the battery at 100% state of charge. This third stage is often

called the Float charging stage. A float voltage of 13.3 ± 0.1 volts (6.65 ± 0.05 volts for a 6 volt

battery) should be used when the battery temperature is 77°F (25°C)."

The charging system in most cars will generally produce a voltage between 13.5 and 14.4 volts. All higher then the float voltage called for by Lifeline.

Have a great day

Gary in Maryland

Good site from a solar company they are stating that there is nothing special about charging AMG batteries. Some even say an AMG will take every thing an alternator will throw at them. http://www.windsun.c...ery_FAQ.htm#AGM, or Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

Edited January 9, 2011 by gpchoochoo

[Maineah]

I could not agree more but they are talking about a fixed charging system your alternator does a very good job of regulation and as the battery voltages rises the alternator current falls. Unlike a generator that has to regulate current the alternator by design drops the current as the voltage rises down to a trickle charge. If any thing I would be concerned that your little Toyota alternator would not be enough to fully charge two 120 amp batteries and the truck battery at the same time. AGM batteries are used in solar systems as are flooded cells the solar regulators do not know what they are charging they just regulate. I hope Greg chimes in he has used an AGM battery in his MH for some time now with no problems.

[gpchoochoo]

I could not agree more but they are talking about a fixed charging system your alternator does a very good job of regulation and as the battery voltages rises the alternator current falls. Unlike a generator that has to regulate current the alternator by design drops the current as the voltage rises down to a trickle charge. If any thing I would be concerned that your little Toyota alternator would not be enough to fully charge two 120 amp batteries and the truck battery at the same time. AGM batteries are used in solar systems as are flooded cells the solar regulators do not know what they are charging they just regulate. I hope Greg chimes in he has used an AGM battery in his MH for some time now with no problems.

Maineah, I am not sure why you want to argue a moot point but maybe since you know better than the battery company you should contact them and set them straight so they stop telling people the wrong stuff. http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/

Then you can find who ever named it an alternator and tell them it’s really a battery charger. But everyone in the battery business that I spoke to said an alternator makes a poor battery charger so it might take you awhile to set that straight.

Just going on your last comment let’s say that the little Toy alternator can’t charge the batteries fully so I plug in my spiffy new inverter which charges them all the way up to the tippy top. Now I leave for a 3 hour drive to our hiking spot and the alternator is over charging the already full batteries the whole way.

If you understand the workings of the voltage regulator and alternator then you know it will raise the current to maintain the preset voltage (in most cases 13.8) which is ½ volt greater than the batteries should get while in float stage. If you don’t agree with this then you need to find someone else to argue with because there is nothing else I can say.

No matter which way you go, it’s either over charging or undercharging, both of which are bad and that’s why I am not hooking up to the alternator.

I think we will have to agree to disagree here and move on.

Have a great day

Gary in Maryland

[Maineah]

Well I think I know a little bit about batteries because it is part of my job, we maintain around 200 batteries mostly gel cells that back up the locking system for the jail, computers, and AGM's for the emergency use police radios in our mobile van (charged by an alternator), fork lifts and fire alarms. So I guess you could call our batteries sort of life support but I guess you are right I don't know too much about Lifeline batteries.

[gpchoochoo]

Well I think I know a little bit about batteries because it is part of my job, we maintain around 200 batteries mostly gel cells that back up the locking system for the jail, computers, and AGM's for the emergency use police radios in our mobile van (charged by an alternator), fork lifts and fire alarms. So I guess you could call our batteries sort of life support but I guess you are right I don't know too much about Lifeline batteries.

With your vast knowledge of batteries I am surprised you don’t know about Lifeline whose parent company Concorde Aircraft Battery developed the AGM technology in the 80’s.

Have a great day GP