Boondock vs. plugged in What can/can't I run?

[shaunydaun]

I am new to my '91 Sunrader.  I am enjoying camping at RV resorts and staying plugged up in friends' driveways.  I am confused about the job of the converter (inverter), generator, and power plug.  

 

If I am boondocking, what won't work?  The fridge has a gas mode, so I assume it will work while boondocking.  Will the water heater?  What about the outlets for appliances?  If I use the inverter, will those work?  Do I have to turn the inverter on or is it always on?  

 

Anyone who could school me in this understanding I will buy a beer when our paths cross!  

[WME]

Tecno Babble... Converter makes 12v DC from 120v AC, standard equipment on 99% of commercial made RV's. Inverter is backwards, it makes 120v AC from 12v DC it is very seldom installed in low/mid price RV's. An inverter on a Toy would most likely been installed by a previous owner and who knows how it's wired.

Inverters have an idle draw, like a car engine idling, no work but its using gas. Most inverters have an on/off switch. The high class ones have auto on function so they have a greatly reduced idle draw. An "old school" setup you would have to plug the shore power cord into the inverter. A smart setup would have an auto transfer switch (ATS) that will automatically power the Rv. SOME inverters have an ATS built in. Again whatcha got?

So the question is do you really have an inverter?? If you find one, what make and what power rating?

What works boondocking??? Your Fridge, house heater, water heater all are propane powered. Your house heater fan, stove vent fan, lights are all 12v powered. The outlets are 120v AC only so to power them you need an 1. inverter or 2. Shore power 120v AC or 3. Generator.

 

If you plan on a lot boondocking you need to look into a solar setup, but that's another conversation.

 

 

[shaunydaun]

12 hours ago, WME said:

Tecno Babble... Converter makes 12v DC from 120v AC, standard equipment on 99% of commercial made RV's. Inverter is backwards, it makes 120v AC from 12v DC it is very seldom installed in low/mid price RV's. An inverter on a Toy would most likely been installed by a previous owner and who knows how it's wired.

Inverters have an idle draw, like a car engine idling, no work but its using gas. Most inverters have an on/off switch. The high class ones have auto on function so they have a greatly reduced idle draw. An "old school" setup you would have to plug the shore power cord into the inverter. A smart setup would have an auto transfer switch (ATS) that will automatically power the Rv. SOME inverters have an ATS built in. Again whatcha got?

So the question is do you really have an inverter?? If you find one, what make and what power rating?

What works boondocking??? Your Fridge, house heater, water heater all are propane powered. Your house heater fan, stove vent fan, lights are all 12v powered. The outlets are 120v AC only so to power them you need an 1. inverter or 2. Shore power 120v AC or 3. Generator.

 

If you plan on a lot boondocking you need to look into a solar setup, but that's another conversation.

 

This is my board.  I guess it is just a converter.  So why does it make noise sometimes and heat comes out of the vents when I am plugged in?  So if I understand correctly, the purpose of the converter is to convert the power from the post I am plugged up to  into usable power from the outlets.  I have some that are regular plugs (120 v?) and some that are 12v like little lighter holes and the lights.  So, my tv, fridge, plugged appliances will only work when I am plugged in, right?  So if I boondock, I won't have any access to those, or I will only have as long as the battery lasts.  What is running off the big boat battery?  My panel says it is fully charged.  

 

[extech]

anything that needs 120v ac power needs the power from the pole or a generator.    the converter  (120v ac to 12v dc) uses some energy to do its job, hence the heat.

 all the 12v stuff always runs off the "boat battery", the converter keeps it charged.'

  as said, the fridge runs on propane---no electricity needed.    the furnace uses 12v from your battery to run the fan

[WME]

You haven't posted a picture of an inverter!!!

Power circuit panel (circuit breakers), power converter and 12v fuse panel

[shaunydaun]

So from what I understand I should be able to run the AC while I am plugged in. But I'm currently plugged in and I cannot run the AC without everything else in the vehicle shutting off. Is it just too much of a draw? Do I need to be plugged in to a different place? And another question I tried turning on the generator thinking that would give more energy to the system. But when I run the generator nothing different happens. Is there some switch I have to flip to make the power come from the generator? Thank you for all these explanations. I feel clueless.

[shaunydaun]

On 4/3/2024 at 1:10 PM, extech said:

anything that needs 120v ac power needs the power from the pole or a generator.    the converter  (120v ac to 12v dc) uses some energy to do its job, hence the heat.

 all the 12v stuff always runs off the "boat battery", the converter keeps it charged.'

  as said, the fridge runs on propane---no electricity needed.    the furnace uses 12v from your battery to run the fan

I posted pictures in this strand. 

[extech]

can't read the writing on the circuit breakers.  do any of them pop when trying the ac?    

   if you have an auto switch, you do nothing after starting the gen.  i don;t have auto switch so i have to plug the shore power cable into the gen outlet to use the gen. 

 makes it either or     shore power or gen

[fred heath]

You might have a bad start capacitor or a seized compressor on your rooftop A/C.

Rooftop units draw a huge amount of amps when first starting.

What gage extension cord are you using, and how long of a distance from your shore power connection? Too small of a gage wire or too long of a distance run would cause a voltage drop that would affect all the systems.

 

You May have a transfer switch somewhere that supplies generator power to the coach. Not sure how the newer units are wired up. Troubleshooting will be a process of elimination. I’m not sure how skilled you are with electrical wiring. It’s hard to diagnose these issues online.

 

Good Luck.  Fred

[shaunydaun]

1 hour ago, fred heath said:

You might have a bad start capacitor or a seized compressor on your rooftop A/C.

Rooftop units draw a huge amount of amps when first starting.

What gage extension cord are you using, and how long of a distance from your shore power connection? Too small of a gage wire or too long of a distance run would cause a voltage drop that would affect all the systems.

 

You May have a transfer switch somewhere that supplies generator power to the coach. Not sure how the newer units are wired up. Troubleshooting will be a process of elimination. I’m not sure how skilled you are with electrical wiring. It’s hard to diagnose these issues online.

 

Good Luck.  Fred

Thanks Fred, it's far from the outlet for sure. I will start there. Also I am using a regular household extension cord. Will get a better one. I appreciate you!

[extech]

home depot sells a nice shore power cable

[shaunydaun]

16 minutes ago, extech said:

home depot sells a nice shore power cable

Thanks!  I saw an article today saying i should use a surge protector. So you use one of those on your power source?

[extech]

no, just the extension cord

[shaunydaun]

I appreciate all of you who are helping me learn. I have been using a better rv extension cord and a surge protector with no issues. I am interested in boondocking since the weather is so nice. I tried the generator yesterday but the outlets didn't start working. Is there something I need to do once I start up the generator?  Maybe it takes awhile for the outlets to receive power?

[extech]

look in the portal where the shore power cord comes out.  is there a receptacle  for the shore power cord? i have to plug my cord in to have generator power

[shaunydaun]

On 7/6/2024 at 10:11 AM, extech said:

look in the portal where the shore power cord comes out.  is there a receptacle  for the shore power cord? i have to plug my cord in to have generator power

Thank you!  I found it!  

[shaunydaun]

Hello Helpful Folks,

 

I have been having no issues in the cabin portion of my camper for a while now.  I have figured out many things over the preceding months.  I appreciate all of your input and teachings.  I wanted to reply here because you all know so much, with a new problem. 

 

The newish issue, is that when I leave the camper in storage for very long (say 2 weeks) I have to jump the battery to get it started upon my return.  I replaced the battery recently and it still happens.  Here are my new questions:

 

1) Is there something drawing on the battery that I don't know about when I leave?  Someone suggested removing the fuses from the panel when it is in storage.  Is this necessary?

 

2) I have been jumping it with cables, which works fine, but I am considering another option. I am considering buying a rechargeable battery type thing.  Like a Jackery, but I want it to air my tires up/ and be solar rechargeable as well as jump my battery.  Any suggestions?  It needs to be small as I don't have room for much, unless I want to uninstall my generator (which is broken currently).  

[IdahoDoug]

Consider buying a $20 battery disconnect switch and installing it on your battery.  With a 35 year old vehicle, you can easily have something cause a drain, and when your battery is so low it won't start the truck, it is getting damaged each time that happens. Badly, actually. With batteries now $150++, getting a $50 jump pack and continuing to let your expensive battery get damaged is not a good solution.  With a battery disconnect, when you park it, you simply disconnect the battery from everything and it should then easily start your truck in several weeks when you return.  I have collector cars and they have these switches.  It's also a passive anti theft, and there are disconnects that have a key lock on them if your truck is in an area thefts occur. 

[Homer]

Our 86 does the same thing. Has from when we bought it. after 2 weeks forget it starting. I got a Knife Switch that fastens to the battery post and I have left it for 4-5 months and engaged the switch and it starts right off.

[shaunydaun]

This is a great idea.  I am not sure if 1) I have both a house and chassis battery or 2) they are tied together or 3) they operate independently. The parasitic drain makes me think they are tied together.  Would you guys think I need 2 battery disconnect switches or can I just put one on the chassis?  I don't really know where my house battery would be stored.  But the fact that my lights work when not connected to shore power means I have one, right?  

[IdahoDoug]

They are cheap, get one for each battery.  If you don't even know if you have a 2nd battery, that suggests a pretty low level of knowledge about your vehicle.  You should spend some time learning about it before relying upon it far from home.  It's 35 years old and getting towed home for minor stuff constantly will get old. And expensive.

[shaunydaun]

Thank you Doug.  I have been living in it with no home base for 2 years.  Luckily I have good friends everywhere I go, who help me.  I also have to rely on mobile mechanics sometimes.  I will investigate to see where the second battery is located.  I love Coeur d'Alene!  Maybe we will be in the same area sometime. 

[IdahoDoug]

Well, that solves the "getting towed home" issue quite handily, eh?  😆  Seriously, get to know some basics so you don't have minor issues that need major help to resolve.  Fortunately, we have Google these days!

 

[WME]

The absolute most important in your RV tool box is a cheap digital volt meter.  With an RV this old you have NO ideas what the previous owner "rewired" to make it better. my Toy would go a couple of months of Wyoming winter and crank just fine.

A $10 Harbor Freight Volt meter will let you look for phantom loads and other useful things 

 

P.S. There are several 12v RV repair guide books on the net.

 

P.P.S. Something like this works wonders...https://www.amazon.com/ECO-WORTHY-Maintainer-Waterproof-Adjustable-Controller/dp/B0F53FW516/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1HN3H0AY4R0C7&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.ShbFcjaWzWENMQYuICBMOiDa8A6IJfpT9oTE-Rfrqp-zSALKhaEfs7neXc2sZ_emOzjoP7jAB4IEt5wmC1gGBhtcqKrKVvuhIZYco07o4859dQa06GnoHvBVl8smVTIi8JxiIHBBbDBv_KMu-Mbu0mXUF2-gb8zlfWSLxz_jcRmA0sDxTSWVAGhTnYK0hkdfSpz52fTHdwhGEI0QtCOfEEfRPi6PGRJfXe0tEO9uvuE.iANZpOIsDC-0a0qHPdeEuOoLnX5YQ6emRG8H9PpS0y4&dib_tag=se&keywords=eco%2Bworthy%2Bsolar%2Bpanel%2Bkit&qid=1777087994&sbo=9ZOMT9Jm0JH%2Ft%2BWi68iDSA%3D%3D&sprefix=%2Caps%2C337&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

[Hoonah]

I have a '91 sunrader. When you are boondocking you can not use the power outlets or the AC. Run the fridge off propane. You may want to get LED bulbs to help reduce draw on the battery, and turn the water pump off when not in use. I only run my AC when I am plugged into 50 amp service. 

[Hoonah]

Also, I upgraded my converter (which is the same one you have). There is one that fits into the current converter box perfectly - i don't have the make/model in front of me now.

[turtle]

Later model upgrade

 

https://toymike.com/archive/sunrader/pics/converter/

[shaunydaun]

Thank you! I think I have solved my issues.  I needed a new solenoid between the two batteries (there was a leak between them, which is why I was draining so fast) and I installed a kill switch. I recently bought a small converter that I can plug into my lighter outlets when boondocking to be able to run my router and laptop recharging.  Happy camping to all of us!  

[Hoonah]

22 minutes ago, turtle said:

Later model upgrade

 

https://toymike.com/archive/sunrader/pics/converter/

Remember this, you will need need to do it one day.

[shaunydaun]

4 hours ago, Hoonah said:

Remember this, you will need need to do it one day.

Can you tell me how you knew it was time to upgrade yours?  My vehicle was in storage for 25 years and was serviced recently.  Techs didn't recommend any changes last year.  TYIA

[Hoonah]

My house battery was not charging. Pretty simple, but it seemed like the world's biggest mystery when I was dealing with it. 

[Hoonah]

Which kill switch did you get? The slow drain on the vehicle battery is killing me.

[Hoonah]

Also, did you find the house battery? It took me a bit of time to find mine. I have a rear pod and didn't see the battery door behind the pod.

[turtle]

8 hours ago, Hoonah said:

Which kill switch did you get? The slow drain on the vehicle battery is killing me.

I put in a Moroso switch on the coach battery. I mounted it inside the door under the rear dinette bench near the inverter/charger. You can sort of see it in this older pic. I have since upgraded the AC/DC system but the shut off is still in the same place

[turtle]