Every Sin in the Book?

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Greetings All,

I'm a recovering Westfalia owner.  About to jump from frying pan to fire...

First post here, so something of an introduction.  Since the 1960's I've owned and traveled in 3 different Westies.  My '85, which I've had 18 years, is awaiting parts/repair before (sigh) sale.  She's a beauty.  But  I am finally ready for a little more comfort and a little less white knuckling!  

A Toy would be just right.  My daily driver is an '82 Toyota pickup I've had since new!  I've learned to love and trust a manual 22R.  I've done months of  research on this site.  I feel at home here, just as I did for years on the Vanagon listserve.  This forum has a familiar mix of gurus and knuckleheads.  What fun!    I will be  counting on all of you.

So, I watch craigslist, hoping in this endless rainy CA winter, to find something I can afford.  I need a miracle.  Most anything that is clean/running well/free of water damage:  $10-$16K.  But once in a while, in winter, someone *needs* to sell.   Fast.

Here's where the trouble starts:  I've found a craigslist offering a few hours away.  1984 Coachmen, claimed to be 17 feet.  Looks like a bit more to me.  But just what I want:   manual 22R shorty with rear dinette.   It looks good in the pics, so I called with a list of questions.   Non negotiables would be:  extensive water damage, no proper axle "fix" and sitting too long without use, etc.   

I liked the owner, a young single mother who says she's owned it 7 years.  Right away, when asked, admitted to a bit of water damage in overhead bunk; says leak is now sealed.  That could be a project I don't want.  Admitted has *same* tires as when she bought it.  Seemed  (deliberately?) unclear about "axle" question.  The ad claims all systems work, but when asked claimed never to have used shower due to low pressure; claimed not to have needed use of stove/oven.  Claims she took it on a week long trip in the fall without incident.  My question to all of you is:  Should I go have a look?  I've got to begin looking things over and getting good at inspections.  I am suspicious of this rigs' axle, but would hate not to inspect since asking price is low & it's a cute rig much to my liking.

If you care to, take a look at the ad and pics:  search craigslist SF Bay area RVs by owner.   Is it worth a couple hours' drive to sharpen my inspection skills?  BTW,  it's in a storage lot, thus we cannot plug anything in.  I told her if she cannot demonstrate something is working to my satisfaction, I will have to assume it does not work.   

Any digital sleuthing/intuitive stabs/opinions  appreciated!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Derek up North]

Sorry, bad axle. And not 17 feet. Or inches, as it's advertised.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/rvs/6022960721.html

[WME]

Lots of toads, few princes. Keep looking for exactly what you want, they are out there.

[Derek up North]

So is that about your budget? And how far are you ready to travel? What direction are you from SF?

Are you set on a 22R (carbed) or will a 22RE (injected) do too?

The only 'shorties' that come to mind (unless you go back to the 70s) are Sunrader and Winnebago. Add in a rear dinette requirement and you're limited to Sunrader. Unless you'd consider a pop-up.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Derek,

I feel honored to be graced with a quick reply from such a forum heavyweight!  Thank you.

Yep, that's about my budget for now.  I am hoping to get my cabin and acreage cleaned up, repaired, and do some ruthless downsizing by this time next year so I can rent my place and take off again.  All must be accomplished by my own sweat equity, as usual.  I could wait six months or more and have a bit more money to throw at a rig, but would prefer to find something soon so I can drive it a lot, work out the bugs, and make repairs as they come up.

I am three hours north of the Golden Gate, in the coastal redwood forest.  Best if I could find prospects within  a days' round trip, since I've got chickens and dairy goats going, and later in season, a vege garden.  Hard for me to get away.

I love the little Sunraders, but most are pricey.  Saw a cute one on craigslist, in Santa Rosa, hour and a half away, but even in the pics I could see a lot of external delamination, which explained the 5K asking price.  I've got enough dry rot in my cabin to deal with, no urge to take that project on in a Toy! 

I would be willing to accept something a bit longer, but prefer a shorty.  Sometime I check the Oregon listings, but they don't have the stringent smog issues like CA, and an Oregon buy might be dicey.  On the other hand, if I bought a rig there and it needed tires, there is no sales tax in Oregon.  Here it is 8-9%. 

 

[Derek up North]

If you're planning to travel with your chickens and goats, you'll need at least a 21 footer.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Ha Ha! 

Another thing, Derek

I would consider a 22re, but am pretty firm on it being manual.  I LIKE to drive.  Which of the benefits of the 22R would I lose if I bought an RE?  Except for oil/filter changes, I am no good with a wrench.  My old boyfriend gave a set of socket wrenches years ago and it took me a few minutes of head scratching just to figure out how to release the sockets!  Since 22R is an easy to get to engine, that should save labor time/costs for me...

 

[WME]

I think the ft number for Toys are  17, 19, 21 and a rare 23. The 19 was made by Winnie and were made up to 93 or so.

 

[Derek up North]

The 22RE is just a 22R with fuel injection. Just as easy to access.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Thank you gentlemen,

Good to have info on lengths, very helpful.  \

As to fuel injection: more expensive to maintain or swap?  I like to keep everything simple...And what about mileage?  Any improvement with fuel injection?

 

[Derek up North]

http://toyotatrekker.proboards.com/thread/810/keep-toyota-pickup-alive-pdf

[linda s]

Well you should have checked out the Sunrader in Santa Rosa. I don't know what it looked like in the pics but there is nothing to delaminate in a fiberglass shell. I'm in Eureka. There's an 84 Sunrader for sale here but it's big bucks. Finding a manual in a rig 86 or newer is very hard. After the full float was standard it seems they built mostly automatics. I'll keep an eye out for you

Linda S

[Derek up North]

Here's my take: Sunrader (and everyone else) built whatever the public would buy. You want automatic, you got automatic. The vast majority (80:20?) of the driving public prefer auto.

 

[Scarlett O'Hara]

6 hours ago, linda s said:

Well you should have checked out the Sunrader in Santa Rosa. I don't know what it looked like in the pics but there is nothing to delaminate in a fiberglass shell.

Linda S

HI Linda,

Yikes!  That being the case, I am *really* sorry not to have jumped on it.  Someone else acted quickly perhaps, for the second time I tried to view the listing it was gone.  The interior was gorgeous, fresh and clean.  On occasion a listing will disappear only to be relisted again.  From now on, if a phone # is listed, I'll write it down immediately. 

Thanks for keeping an eye out.  We're almost neighbors!

 

[Derek up North]

I think if you find another manual Sunrader shorty in your price range, you'd better call the number right away rather than writing it down.

[Derek up North]

Here's another model for you to consider, since you're used to living with canvas. This one's automatic though.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/rvs/6035665842.html

[linda s]

9 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Here's another model for you to consider, since you're used to living with canvas. This one's automatic though.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/rvs/6035665842.html

OMG she's the woman from this site and she put my name in the ad. I think this one is a winner. Needs a lot of cleaning up is all.

Linda S

OK a ton of cleaning up

[Derek up North]

Didn't bother reading it 1st time around. I almost got a mention!

 

[Scarlett O'Hara]

4 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

.. if you find another manual Sunrader shorty in your price range, you'd better call the number right away...

How right you are!

I've been *thinking hard* since this morning re a game plan for finding a Toy.   

#1  Withdraw cash from bank to have immediately on hand.

#2  Find new home for my three lovely dairy goats.  I'd hoped to keep them till just before travel time, as I am terrible fond of them and enjoy the fresh milk and homemade yogurt daily.  But with goats I can't get away on short order to inspect a good prospect.  So goats must go.  Oh, how my life is changing.  About to sell my Westie, now my Nubians...

#3  If I make phone contact with seller, and am even vaguely hopeful, I will post to this list and hope a few kind souls will have a look at the listing and offer feedback. 

Already, I find I am learning to "read between the lines" in a listing.  Now, let's just have a gander at a listing I spotted two days ago, but dismissed.  Was I unwarranted in doing so?  Yes, this Sunrader is no Shorty, but that length is my preference only.  On my limited budget I can see that I will have to make compromises.  Now, thanks to Lindas' Sunrader pointers, I've   left a message to the seller for a call back. 

Here's what put me off initially:  From the pics I suspected *strongly* that this interior has serious water damage.  I do not need any more remedial carpentry projects!  I would, however, enjoy sanding, painting, redoing a floor and reupholstering & sewing curtains, etc.   The seller stated also that he would trade  for a van or truck that, in its' current condition, could make it to Minnesota.  Why not this rig, if the engine is in such fine shape?

Couldn't seem to copy the link.  But it's SF Bay are Craigslist 1983 Sunrader 21'

Adapt and overcome!

 

[linda s]

4 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Didn't bother reading it 1st time around. I almost got a mention!

 

Yeah your Deric down under now. I like it. Bet you could pull off an Aussie accent too.

Linda S

[Derek up North]

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/rvs/6034468415.html

[Derek up North]

 

[Scarlett O'Hara]

3 hours ago, linda s said:

... I think this one is a winner. Needs a lot of cleaning up is all.

Linda S

OK a ton of cleaning up

Linda & Derek,

Thanks for this link!  I've never seen one of these before.  Were it not that I travel extensively in mainland Mexico, I would indeed be sorely tempted by this cutie.  While I may have little dough, I've always plenty of elbow grease.  But I need more rooftop "security".  It's one of the drawbacks of my Westie.  

When I find the right rig, I'll be installing 3-4000K watts of solar on roof, plus a  Fantastic vent fan or two.  I travel with a medium size hound & I must be able to keep my rig cool *and* secure.  I plan to install a C-Head compost toilet, thus avoiding black tankage.  And for long term travel, I do enjoy an oven as well as a stove. 

 

 

[linda s]

3000 to 4000 watts of solar would require way more roof space than your going to find on any Toyota motorhome.

Linda S

[Scarlett O'Hara]

1 hour ago, linda s said:

3000 to 4000 watts of solar would require way more roof space than your going to find on any Toyota motorhome.

Linda S

I'm pretty sure it can be done.  I've looked into this and have watched many youtube videos, & compared sizes/prices of panels.  Solar panels have come a long way recently.  Many cargo van conversions have been outfitted with this amount of solar.

There is excellent info available on Bob Wells' website and youtube channel: CheapRVliving.   Renogy makes a really nifty "suitcase" style for setting up on ground a distance from rig, allowing parking under shade of trees.  Downside to that, depending on where one is camped, is possibility of theft.    Those who can afford it, use both systems...

[linda s]

4000 watts is the recommended wattage for a 2000 sq ft house. Unless your planning on putting a Prius engine in it. Conventional panels would weigh in at more than the roof would hold. For the thin ultralight ones, well you said you were on a budget. Wouldn't be in my wheel house at around 8 grand. Would love to see a link showing that much solar on a cargo van. My friend who has done tons of solar builds figured he could get almost a 1000 wts on his houseboat. Big difference from a tiny motorhome

Linda S

[Scarlett O'Hara]

Laughing my ***off for my mistake of the extra zero!  That does make a difference!

52 minutes ago, linda s said:

 ...4000 watts is the recommended wattage for a 2000 sq ft house.

Linda S

Of course, what I meant was 3-400 watts... ; }

[linda s]

OK that makes more sense. You will still need a 21 footer. Mine is 18 ft and at most I could put 2- 100 watt panels.

Linda S

[WME]

FWIW I have  200w panel and 2 12v 100ah AGM batteries.

I run a fantastic Fan, A Vortex fan in the bathroom, a 17" flatscreen TV, a DVD player and my wife's CPAP machine. Never worry about battery management.

I have also converted all interior lights to LED.

Why do you feel you need 400w?

[Scarlett O'Hara]

17 hours ago, linda s said:

OK that makes more sense. You will still need a 21 footer. Mine is 18 ft and at most I could put 2- 100 watt panels.

Linda S

Linda, thanks,  good to know.  Looks like I will rethink the "shorty" idea.  I'm 'gonna need lots of solar.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

13 hours ago, WME said:

Why do you feel you need 400w?

Since most any *old* Toy I'm likely to find may not have a reliabe working fridge, my plan is to convert old fridge space to panty, since my habit is to boondock for two weeks at a stretch in, often, very warm climes.  I cook from scratch and carry a lot of bulk dry food.

What I want is a large 12 volt compressor fridge, which draws some amps.  Too, I travel with a Singer Featherweight sewing machine and use it often.  And there is the matter of keeping my starting battery well topped off.  In Mexico I might need to make a quick getaway!  Always good to have plenty of solar.

[linda s]

Solar is usually hooked up to your coach battery which won't charge your starting battery. Thee might be way to hook to both but it might also circumvent your battery isolator which protects your starting battery from discharging when your using lots of amps inside. A good starting battery isn't going to discharge just from sitting a few days or even weeks.

This is my best recommendation for a compressor fridge. Uses 12 volts so the least possible amount of amp usage. Works out to about 2 amps per hour at 12 volts if running constantly which doesn't really happen. They turn on and off all day long to keep temp stable

Linda S

http://truckfridge.com/tf130.html

[Derek up North]

Adding extra insulation will also reduce the 'On' time of a compressor (or any other) fridge.

[WME]

Check with the boating places, extended time at sea. They have very efficient 12 v refers.

[Scarlett O'Hara]

5 hours ago, linda s said:

 

This is my best recommendation for a compressor fridge.

Linda S

http://truckfridge.com/tf130.html

Linda that is a sweet unit!  All these extras, solar, fridges, will not immediately follow Toy purchase, but I know what I want and how I want it set up.