ted.thurlby Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Does anyone know what causes the small holes in the outside metal skin. In washing the newly purchased MH I did notice a very small tingling feeling on my skin at times. I'm sure this is due to a ground problem. Everything works fine in the unit and in good shape. If you have any possible solutions to this fix let me know. Ted from Seattle In chemistry and manufacturing, electrolysis is a method of using a direct electric current (DC) to drive an otherwise non-spontaneous chemical reaction. Electrolysis is commercially highly important as a stage in the separation of elements from naturally occurring sources such as ores using an electrolytic cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Does anyone know what causes the small holes in the outside medal skin. In washing the newly purchased MH I did notice a very small tingling feeling on my skin at times. I'm sure this is due to a ground problem. Everything works fine in the unit and in good shape. If you have any possible solutions to this fix let me know. Ted from Searttle I can't say I've ever studied the problem with motorhome bodies. I have with aluminum outboard motors and with cylinder liners in diesel engines that suffer from electrolytic cavitation. When two dis-similar metals touch and get wet - they become a battery and electrolysis occurrs. That's why whenever two different metals touch each other in an auto or truck where they tend to get wet - they suffer If not insulated from each other. When a truck has an aluminum line strapped to a steel chasis - usually plastic straps must be used to insulate the two metals from each other. Aluminum outboard motors purposely install a lump of sacrificial metal that will rot before the good parts do. In your case - is your problem got anything to do with hydrachloric acid on your metal from road salt? I know that in the places I live in New York and northern MIchigan, road salt is used summer and winter on certain roads. Ice control in the winter and dust control in the summer (on dirt and gravel roads). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Was you toy plugged into 115v, or just sitting there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted December 1, 2012 Share Posted December 1, 2012 Yeah if you get it plugged in you need to deal with it like now! MH's and mobile homes are not wired like stick houses for a reason a hot MH frame can kill you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted.thurlby Posted December 2, 2012 Author Share Posted December 2, 2012 I have it plugged and now. When I got it was not plugged for six years. Do they make a ground that you that you could hanging from the frame.. Seattle Ted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 I have it plugged and now. When I got it was not plugged for six years. Do they make a ground that you that you could hanging from the frame.. Seattle Ted. Just drive a ground rod into the ground and clamp it to the frame or metal body. Just like we are supposed to do with electric generators. I've had many campers with the same issue as you got. Many . . . if plugged into a GFIC outlet will trip it. Ground rod won't do much though unless it touches damp soil. If it was a mobile home on a slab it would have it's own groud system with two 6 rods driven into the ground or a connection to a metal buried water pipe or well casing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 They are supposed to be grounded at the frame to the city wiring the difference is the neutral wiring in the panel box is not bonded to the ground wiring as it is in most houses the reason is to eliminate the possibility of having a hot frame with miss wired sockets at camp grounds etc. Years ago they made static straps to draw off the charge from the old rayon tires but just about every thing is a steel belt and they no longer are necessary. I think I know what you are talking about with the tingling feeling you some times get from metal objects even if there is no electrical connections so far no one has be able to explain it to me to my satisfaction so I just accept it as the way it is. Aluminum and salt do not get along well I too have seen the small holes that appear in thin aluminum when subjected to salt water pretty normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 They are supposed to be grounded at the frame to the city wiring the difference is the neutral wiring in the panel box is not bonded to the ground wiring as it is in most houses the reason is to eliminate the possibility of having a hot frame with miss wired sockets at camp grounds etc. . Neutral is just about never bonded to the panel except in the one-and-only main entrance panel. Sub-panels are not bonded and a motorhome parked outside becomes basically - a sub-panel or "branch circuit." RVs can be extra complicated because of the mix of AC that is not grounded to chassis and DC that IS grounded to chassis. I've got an off-grid house like that and have seen some weird things happen. One being - a 12 volt DC LED stairway light that stays lit with the switch "off." There are only two wires going to it and with one of those wires unhooked - it still glows. The problem I found was the unbonded DC electric panel, whereas the main AC panel IS bonded (run from an inverter - no grid). I discovered the problem when I ran a milliamp meter through a bonding screw in the DC panel. Finally put a bonding screw in the DC panel and all problems solved. The electrical inspector was even baffled. There is a lot of "grey area" in the code when it comes to mixing DC and AC wiring under one roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 DC and AC grounds are both grounded to the MH frame. Entrance panels are neutral grounded (normal house wiring) except in mobile homes. Subs are not, now requiring two ground rods 10 feet apart. MH are not, over kill to avoid a hot frame for good reason because they can remain 120 volts above ground with out a trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 DC and AC grounds are both grounded to the MH frame. Entrance panels are neutral grounded (normal house wiring) except in mobile homes. Subs are not, now requiring two ground rods 10 feet apart. MH are not, over kill to avoid a hot frame for good reason because they can remain 120 volts above ground with out a trip. The requirements for "subpanels" . . . or what the NEC calls "branch circuits" differ by whatever version of code a particular state is using - and also if classfied as "farm wiring" or not. Many places here in New York State (no NYC that has its own code) - I can wire outdoor branch circuits with their own grounds - or connected to the common ground. With the motorhome - a chassis "ground" is used but there no dedicated ground to earth-ground other then the wiring it's plugged into - or if someone has chains attached to the frame dragging the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 NEC, National Electrical Code. Chains on frames are not grounds they are static discharge. Rubber tires insulate the frame above ground this is why it is so important to A, have a good frame ground to a power point ground and B, an isolated neutral in case the ground is faulty. Sub building panels must have both an entrance panel ground and a driven ground. I'm sure there are a lot of grandfathered panels out there that does not make them safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 NEC, National Electrical Code. Chains on frames are not grounds they are static discharge. Rubber tires insulate the frame above ground this is why it is so important to A, have a good frame ground to a power point ground and B, an isolated neutral in case the ground is faulty. Sub building panels must have both an entrance panel ground and a driven ground. I'm sure there are a lot of grandfathered panels out there that does not make them safe. What you've stated does not apply to all buildings in all states (in the USA). I can't comment on Canada. It depends on what particular version - or parts there-of a state chooses to follow. NEC has no legal authority over anyone. It is an institution that makes suggestions about what they consider to be safe wiring practices. NY in general (not all counties) was using parts of the 2001 code until recently. I think we've moved up to 2007 now (but haven't checked recently). As to the chains - I wasn't serious about using them for a safe electrical ground for AC wiring systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 NEC/NFPA has been adopted all 50 states as the standard. If it was not a union journeyman electrician could not work an out of state job he would have to be licensed by the state he was doing work in. Building codes for sub panels Section 250.6A and 250.24 (A) (5). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 NEC/NFPA has been adopted all 50 states as the standard. If it was not a union journeyman electrician could not work an out of state job he would have to be licensed by the state he was doing work in. Building codes for sub panels Section 250.6A and 250.24 (A) (5). As I stated earlier, not the same version/vintage of the NEC has been adopted by every state in the USA. Besides that - some states/cities pick and choose the parts of it they want and add their own code for certain aspects of wiring. My previous partner when I was doing house wiring had a masters electrician's license from Massachusetts yet he was not allowed to do any wiring in the small city of Oneonta NY. That because they require a city license. Places e.g. New York City have their own custom-tailored code. I was in the IBEW for quite a few years but that has little to do with what is, and what is not. Different states adopt different versions of building and wiring codes. Montana and Connecticut are still using the 2005 NEC. Over 20 states including New York are up to NEC version 2008 with a few custom changes. Maine, Texas, Oregon, etc. are using the 2011 NEC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted.thurlby Posted December 6, 2012 Author Share Posted December 6, 2012 Wow sounds like more than a simple fix. I just thought that it was a power leak somewhere. After reading the comments maybe the holes were partially formed by salt. In the front outside that outside that area and on the rear just above the back bumper . the salt in the the salt in the roadway was on tha was on that area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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