Solar at home

[Totem]

has anyone set up solar panels at home for their regular abodes (non toyota)?

I recently installed a manual power switch for generator to run me house in event of an outage and got to be thinking... hmmm... a nice 4000 watt harbor freight inverter coupled to a battery bank and a nice solar array could easily run many of the rooms in my house. All I would have to do is flip their respective switches from grid to the switch and find a 30 amp 4 prong adapter for input.

[Jeffrey]

The question you might consider would be "How much juice do my present appliances consume"? I'm sure you've thought that out but many people who want to convert to an off the grid solar set up have not. If one is heating and cooking with wood and/or propane then there is a chance one can pull it off (with their present appliances). I've lived off the grid (10 year stretch one time, was the longest) and the key is "conservation" of energy. It's been my experience that when I'm off the grid, then back on the grid, my electric bill is much, much lower. I use only one appliance at a time, both on the grid and off, now, and, while off the grid, I'm religiously monitoring power consumption. I've also found that when I'm living off the grid I come to appreciate the sun, and wind, with an intimate reverence.

Anyway, even if you supplement your on the grid system (as I do) with solar, eventually, it may pay for itself (The initial investment). And, of course, in case of an emergency, you'll have the means to progress rather than survive.

I'll have my Toy Home "off the grid" once I find a couple of "accessories" needed to make the final transition. (7-50 watts of panels already mounted top side, Solar Boost 50 Charge Controller/1300 Watt Powerstar Inverter/4-Trojan 105 Batteries and cables already to go. Just a few minor things and I'll be set, I also have a two axle enclosed cargo trailer (my mobile power unit) with 9-185watt panels mounted top side, 20 some 105 trojan batteries, Outback MX-60 Charge Controller, Magnum Energy pure sine wave 4024 (4000 watt) Inverter I. Nice as back up. Have a new Bergey wind turbine that has yet to be hoisted. Maybe for the Toy Home? Probably too big.

[Totem]

wow 4 batteries...248 lbs to get at 80 Ah, that's heavy. why not just get one 150 like a power sonic?

As for usage, yes I have calculated it; and you hit it dead on the nail actually; time of recovery of investment being primary concern; and budget.

As I understand you get a 25% tax credit now on initial purchase and by my calculations I would be saving $1500 per year in electric. I figure that leaves me $5000 for a system if I was to hopefully have it paid off in 2 and a half years.I am currently using about $125 worth of electric per month. could I piece together a system for 5k that would come close?

was thinking I would go with a SunRay 3000 for the inverter (3000 const 6000 surge) at $750. This would leave me $4250 for PVs, charge controller and batteries... anyone have a good suggestion on that set of circumstances?

Another great thing is that I have a manual generator breaker switch in place already that takes a 4 prong 240v input. To me that should help things as I can control my off grid usage independently of mr. edison and slowly move over as I figure it out. (each breaker is also on my switch.)

[Jeffrey]

Yes, heavy batteries, but when you see how and where I mount them, and I'll post it with pictures when I've got it completed, you might agree with my rationale.

I used to buy from these guys. They are out of California. I got some good buys from them. http://www.partsonsale.com/

and at their site: Solar Kits for RV's.

[douglitas]

the "solar kits for rvs" site has prices that are way too high. prices are now down to $1 per watt.

[Maineah]

Be careful when figuring tax credit you may not be able to collect unless the system is installed by a contractor. Check first. An other way to get some of your money back is a grid tie system.

[Totem]

in Michigan they make you get permits and sign offs from the electric company. there is no credit for non grid tie solutions. Its a scam basically; they will make it so costly to implement you will never see ROI, you'll only be tree hugger.

[zero]

in Michigan they make you get permits and sign offs from the electric company. there is no credit for non grid tie solutions. Its a scam basically; they will make it so costly to implement you will never see ROI, you'll only be tree hugger.

I converted my house and barn to 100% solar around 5 years ago. Michigan and New York "rules" are basically the same. I read them all closely a few years ago because I was considering making my house in Presque Isle County, Michigan also all solar. There ARE credits for non-grid-tie, but not from the state. Just Federal. Can't say I've read the latest changes, but up to recently this his how it goes.

To get state incentive money - the panels must be on their "approved list"of UL panels.

To get Federal money, any solar equipment is allowed along with self install. It MUST be your main residence however.

The inverters must be on the "approved list" that that the power company has. In my case - National Grid in NY and Preque Isle Power and Light in Michigan.

Your house MUST be in a area that uses the correct power company. Not all participate.

The installers of the solar must be state approved and homeowners are not allowed to self install (except in New Jersey and a few other states). This results quite often in a huge rip-off and you can wind up paying inexperienced installers over $100 an hour.

The solar-grid tie system must be installed so it automatically shuts down during a grid power outage. So, you can have a house full of solar panels and a huge investment and still NO power when the grid is down. There ARE work-arounds however.

The system chosen must not be anticipated to make more then 110% of normal useage per year. In Michigan. Any extra power made is basically confiscated by the power company. They resell it and pocket the money. In New York, it's basically the same except the excess is saved as a credit for one full year before the power company takes it for good.

A town can raise your property taxes if they want to after you do a solar install. Ask first and good luck on a straight answer.

Off grid equipment is much cheaper. The downside is - with no grid-tie you lose all the excess power you make when the sun is bright.

A 2000 watt Harbor Freight modified wave inverter often sells for $120. Is very rugged. I've had three for years.

A 2000 watt sine-wave power company approved inverter often sells for $2500-$3000.

When I installed solar - my mindset was to get some of my tax money back and get the solar equipment for 1/3 the price. Then later, move to a remote area in the Michigan UP (where no power is available) and take my solar with us. We still might do that. After getting incentives you only have to keep them in-state for 2 years.

When I was forced to use New York "certified" installers, I found out fast what little electrical experience many of them have. I worked for years as an electrician. The installers I had to hire had no experience with wiring until they took a short NY certification course. I got them to hire me as a "subcontractor" on my own property. That was my legal "work-around" the system. I followed this guys and had to correct several big mistakes they made. When the electrical inspection came - it failed because of two more gross mistakes the other guys made that I hadn't noticed. They had installed connectors not rated AL-CU in several areas where it was required. I fixed it quick but geez. These guys were billing their time at over $100 per hour. I was in theory - getting $25 an hour as a sub on my own land.

[zero]

wow 4 batteries...248 lbs to get at 80 Ah, that's heavy.

was thinking I would go with a SunRay 3000 for the inverter (3000 const 6000 surge) at $750.

I must of missed something. What sort of battery combo weighs 248 lbs. and only has an 80 AH rating? I never heard of such a thing. More lbs. usually equates to more amp-hours. My Chevy RV has four Trojan T-105s. My cabin in the woods has 12 of them. One T-105 or a Deka 8144 equivalent weighs 65 lbs. and is rated at 225 amp-hours. A Trojan L-16HC weighs 120 lbs. and is rated at 420 amp-hours. Four T-105s wired for 12 volts yield 450 amp-hours (260 pounds of batteries).

By the way, I've got four of those Ramsond Sunray inverters. Both models. They certainly are NOT "true" sinewave as advertised. But they will do certain things that mod-wave inverters will not. There are also a few things the Sunrays will NOT run yet a cheap Harbor Freight mod-wave inverter will.

[Totem]

I converted my house and barn to 100% solar around 5 years ago. Michigan and New York "rules" are basically the same. I read them all closely a few years ago because I was considering making my house in Presque Isle County, Michigan also all solar. There ARE credits for non-grid-tie, but not from the state. Just Federal. Can't say I've read the latest changes, but up to recently this his how it goes.

To get state incentive money - the panels must be on their "approved list"of UL panels.

To get Federal money, any solar equipment is allowed along with self install. It MUST be your main residence however.

The inverters must be on the "approved list" that that the power company has. In my case - National Grid in NY and Preque Isle Power and Light in Michigan.

Your house MUST be in a area that uses the correct power company. Not all participate.

The installers of the solar must be state approved and homeowners are not allowed to self install (except in New Jersey and a few other states). This results quite often in a huge rip-off and you can wind up paying inexperienced installers over $100 an hour.

The solar-grid tie system must be installed so it automatically shuts down during a grid power outage. So, you can have a house full of solar panels and a huge investment and still NO power when the grid is down. There ARE work-arounds however.

The system chosen must not be anticipated to make more then 110% of normal useage per year. In Michigan. Any extra power made is basically confiscated by the power company. They resell it and pocket the money. In New York, it's basically the same except the excess is saved as a credit for one full year before the power company takes it for good.

A town can raise your property taxes if they want to after you do a solar install. Ask first and good luck on a straight answer.

Off grid equipment is much cheaper. The downside is - with no grid-tie you lose all the excess power you make when the sun is bright.

A 2000 watt Harbor Freight modified wave inverter often sells for $120. Is very rugged. I've had three for years.

A 2000 watt sine-wave power company approved inverter often sells for $2500-$3000.

When I installed solar - my mindset was to get some of my tax money back and get the solar equipment for 1/3 the price. Then later, move to a remote area in the Michigan UP (where no power is available) and take my solar with us. We still might do that. After getting incentives you only have to keep them in-state for 2 years.

When I was forced to use New York "certified" installers, I found out fast what little electrical experience many of them have. I worked for years as an electrician. The installers I had to hire had no experience with wiring until they took a short NY certification course. I got them to hire me as a "subcontractor" on my own property. That was my legal "work-around" the system. I followed this guys and had to correct several big mistakes they made. When the electrical inspection came - it failed because of two more gross mistakes the other guys made that I hadn't noticed. They had installed connectors not rated AL-CU in several areas where it was required. I fixed it quick but geez. These guys were billing their time at over $100 per hour. I was in theory - getting $25 an hour as a sub on my own land.

yep, I was referring to state credit. Fed credit is easier but with one exception you don't mention; they force you to adhere to State requirements. In Michigan these are as you stated but include power company sign off (on grid tie installations) Essentially the only way to come out of it clean or with half a chance of ROI is to keep the power off grid as you stated. but thats when buying batteries and inverters come into play as well as their maintenance and upkeep and disposal. Very time consuming costly and regulated. Essentially the EPA is an agent of evil or anti progress; a shill for big Oil, big electric and corporate energy giants. Just look at who is on their boards, they swap members like spit. If the president REALLY wanted alternative energy to start taking hold in the USA from a grass roots perspective he could start by stopping the Nanny state approach requiring permits, permission etc. Let landowners assume that responsibility for themselves. He will never do that though because that's where they make money and keep power, pun intended.

[zero]

alternative energy to start taking hold in the USA from a grass roots perspective he could start by stopping the Nanny state approach requiring permits, permission .

Government agencies getting involved in so-called "green energy" is mostly a total waste. With the current state of this country - one dollar spent for true energy conservation would yield MUCH more then a dollar spent on these bogus programs. Yet collectively we do nothing to become more efficient. The fuel mileage requirements for new cars is one of their many bad jokes. I don't hear much talk about how much petroleum is wasted every year churning out new cars and to melt down the old ones. How much fuel is wasted to retool to make and sell new parts constantly for the cars that change constantly?

If you get right down to it . . a person heating with wood, with solar, water or wind elec, and working from home is overall a heck of a lot more efficient then someone commuting to work in their Prius and living in a huge new so-called energy efficient home hooked to the grid and heated with some sort of petro. But the former can't be done on a large scale and many are unwilling even if they ARE equipped to do it. There are too many energy consumers on this planet and we surpassed any sustainable yield years ago. Now we are just living on borrowed energy time - just as our government is living on borrowed money time.

The power companies don't want to be involved in solar grid-tie. They are forced into it and subsequently get back the money in subscriber fees. We all pay for it whether we want it or not.

While I'm on my rant - let me mention the off-grid house I've been trying to build in the Adirondacks. My wife and I wanted a place with NO full time heating system, no pressurized water system, no grid elec, etc. I got the house near done with permits. Artesian water well that pushes water into the house with no pump. Simple convection wood stove for heat. 1000 watts of solar, battery bank, Sundanzer DC fridge, LED lights, etc. Guess what? The code-inspector changed his mind and then insisted that I just meet the requirements of a NY single-family residential structure. Even though we are in the woods with no neighbors. So, this means we must have an automatic heating system that can come on by itself. Also must have pressurized domestic water. Must have architect approved natural light intrusion. Even had to wire all the rooms with 120 volt outlets and install hardwired smoke detectors even though we run on solar and batteries. So, the government is forcing me to NOT do things simple. I found a few work-arounds but it is ridiculous.

[Totem]

its funny that this topic is in vent and asylum also btw; i don't think i originally put it in there when I created it, and prior to my vents today saw nothing political about it; but since its in asylum now I will certainly have no fear of agreeing with you man. The rules on things in this country are a farce designed to make people think that environmentalism is Federal; but in practice most of the rules cause waste and larger carbon footprints because of the power of lobbyists. I actually didn't mind cash for clunkers though; it was a shot in the arm for automotive and they are our customers (of my employer). It doesn't surprise me that an inspector in NY would do that to you. NY has a moron running its biggest city; one who decries soda to be illegal and makes anti second amendment propaganda rain like confetti in his streets. When I come to NY (which is basically never now) I always would go to Ithaca. The folks in local government there were much better. Alas I have no living relatives left there thus no reason to come back.

[zero]

I always would go to Ithaca. .

Two of my kids went to college in Ithaca. It's the only reason I ever went there. I prefer the central Adirondacks. Other then the bottom of NY where NYC is, the state is beautiful. Just over-regulated and largely controlled by New York City people. I live 200 miles from New York City yet we have New York City water police all over the place where I live. They want to make sure a cow doesn't pee in a creek and it then comes out of a NYC water faucet. Much of our water is piped alll the way down to the sewer they call New York City.