stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Im going to need a different laptop for rv life. i posted a question here http://forum.notebookreview.com/what-notebook-should-i-buy/691879-new-laptop-rv-life.html#post8884719 and might get some answers. If you all have a lower power system like me and use a laptop a lot chime in your best links to check out. in the end ill find the best deal that fits the purpose. Im looking for a laptop in the top 10% of power usage, and then in the top of performance vs value from there. I dont want the best laptop for power that has too low a performance and power. but something really good thats cheap and has enough performance for world of warcraft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I suspect power consumption on a laptop will be low, regardless of make/manufacture. I think the big consumer would be the 110 volt power supply, i.e Need to convert 12vdc to 110 volts, then convert 110 volts to what the laptop needs. SO, don't use one. When I was looking for an LCD TV, I looked specifically for a TV that used 12 volts. Many of these don't advertise that they use 12 volts, Look specifically at the TVs power supply module. One end plugs into the wall outlet and the other end plugs into the TV. I looked at the specifications and photos to find out what the AC power supply ratings were, specifically if the AC Power Supply had 12 vdc output. (between 12 and 14 volts should be OK) I also looked at the plug on the TV to make sure it wasn't weird. In my case, since I was mounting the TV in the MH, I measured the power supply to make sure the polarity was correct, then I cut the cord off the power supply and wired it directly to 12 volts. If I were doing this on a laptop, rather than cut the cord off the power supply, I'd find a new plug at Radio Shack and make a new cord specifically t hard wire the laptop to the MH 12 volt system. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008OPWDVM/ref=gno_cart_title_1 this is what youre looking for just turns 12 volts to 19.2 skips the dc to ac to dc. Im not sure why but car adapters today are largely ac inverters. This is totally retarded because laptops are dc. all of them. Its a conspiracy definitely. to sell you something you dont want, and use more power to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve "n" Stephen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 "Im not sure why but car adapters today are largely ac inverters. This is totally retarded because laptops are dc. all of them. Its a conspiracy definitely. to sell you something you dont want, and use more power to do it." It's even worse than that (except those with LED backlights) as there is then an internal inverter to go back to ac to power the backlight! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 your standard lcd tv that works, because its 12 volts. but the laptop is 15 to 24 volts. ya the rest of the world is dc dont forget. everything is made for the real world, and then packaged with an adapter for our electricity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Keep looking. I'm not 100% sure, but I think my Toshiba laptop is 12 volts.. Anytime you need to do an external voltage conversion, you'll loose at least 20% of the power in the conversion. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 ya the rest of the world is dc dont forget. News to me. A voltage other than 120v, yes. But AC. To much transmission loss with DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 ya actually that is wrong theyre all just different types of ac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Laptops are usually above 12 volts because they use 3 different voltages inside and during the conversion process there are voltage drops so the parts that need 12 volts have to start higher. Most of the laptop 12 volt plug in converters bump the voltage in the 15-19 volt range it is the same basic process as an inverter except it is a DC to DC converter. I don't think there would be much if any gain over the inverter. By they way just about every country uses A/C it is far easier to generate and deliver often different voltages and frequency then ours but still A/C. Buy a little Honda generator that would solve all your problems run it a couple hours charge the battery turn it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 http://www.tigerdire...CFYaDQgodpggAgw im really feeling this. ya im actually not sure how much gas mileage is saved by generator vs running the cars engine. I would like to see a break down, exclusively for generating electricity. even if I also had a generator the goal would be to never use it. I definitely have thought about the harbor freight generator with the coupon that goes for 89$and then hook it only to the battery. http://www.ebay.com/...=item2ebf6bc5db how much gas does this save vs the 22re for recharging a deep cell battery? Whoever comes back with that answer is this months smartest rver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Either one will be about the same. The standard Toyota 50 amp alternator can provide about 600 watts. but you'll need to rev the engine to about 1500 rpm for about 10 minutes to get it, The Generator can provide 800 watts, but you'll need to hook it up and start it. Its a matter of convenience to you. I have a remote starter installed on my Toyhouse. so If I need a charge, I just hit the start button and the truck starts and runs for about 15 minutes. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 theres something seriously missing in your equation waiter. what uses more gas, a harbor freight generator or the toyota rv idling? its way more convenient to start the car with or without a remote starter. I think this generator has a pull cord and a small gas tank probably needs oil. Not something im interested in. one is 2.4 liters... one is i think .25 liters..... maybe as much as... 10 times as much gas for the engine running? I dont have the data im asking for it if anyone can find it I cant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve "n" Stephen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Note: One of the first warnings in the Toyota Owner's Manual says, "Do not allow the engine to run at a fast idle speed for more than 10 minutes or at normal idle speed for more than 20 minutes." This has to do with the catalitic converter and is on page one of the manual. For the cost of a decent generator, you could get several hundred watts of solar, a charge controller, inverter and good batteries. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Well I'm sure you don't want contracts but a small Iphone uses the least power of them all. Just get a small flat screen TV and kill 2 birds. Use it with keyboard doc and jack into the flat screen for that laptop feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I already have an android phone just like an iphone. Except it has an actual keyboard. It is indeed low power and is keeping pace with my driving. I don't have a contract though I've got a month to month. Ya well waiter has quite a different experience with charging his battery than I have. He has written that when it gets low he turns it on for 15 minutes. I however have had my car running an hour and increased charge apx 20 percent. Meaning from the point where the charge is too low, below 12 volts it would take 3 hours of the car charging the battery. I can tell you in no uncdrtain terms that using my laptop plugged in takes about. 3 hours of idling the truck to replace the current. That would cost roughly 100 a month to use my big gamer laptop. Not even all day, but about 5. 6 hours a day. Or 200 to do it as much as I want to? I don't even have enough capacity at this point to waste that much. And nevermind shortening my valuable engines life. On the other hand, maybe a generator cuts that figure down 90 percent. I have no idea. Still at 20 a month that's not my scene. When I can get a laptop that again reduces those figures another 90 percent. If I have a laptop that can use only 5 percent in six hours not 50 well then hell run the engine for half hour a day. Use it to heat the place up. I have news for you though even running my laptop off a generator is too much hassle although much more reasonable. This laptop is sort of like a desktop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ya well it. Could be a very expensive project if I wanted it to be. I could get a biodiesel or woodstove generator and solar and nuclear. Ha I'm almost sure I can spend more on a honda eu2000 than I did on my toyhome. But I have a deep sense of cheapness that eventually gets down to the nitty gritty. I don't want to spend anything running my laptop. I want it free. Definitely eyeing solar where my draw is daily the same as driving and sunlight. But if its impossible a generator or gas is fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I however have had my car running an hour and increased charge apx 20 percent. Meaning from the point where the charge is too low, below 12 volts it would take 3 hours of the car charging the battery. What is the voltage reading on the coach side of the isolator? I have to replace mine as it was reading 14.2v on the car batt side but only 12.6v on the coach side. With the engine running of course. You might be getting a charge but may be low enough that is taking longer to charge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 If you run the truck engine to re-charge the battery, You need to run the engine at a fast idle, i.e. 1500 maybe even 2000 rpm to get the alternator up to speed. If you just let the truck idle (whatt 500 rpm) I don't think the alternator is putting out enough to barely charge the truck battery. I had a friend who put a larger diameter pulley on his alternator to increase the output at low RPM, As for fuel usage between the two, My wild guess, with a little bit of science, and some experience. :-) They'll be about the same, If I was going to hedge my bet, I would say the truck would probably consume a little bit more than the generator, but not significant. I would WAG 15-20% error between the two. i.e. for every 10 gallons the truck burns, the generator would burn 8. Let us know what you find out. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eve "n" Stephen Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Did everyone miss this? Note: One of the first warnings in the Toyota truck 1987 Owner's Manual says, "Do not allow the engine to run at a fast idle speed for more than 10 minutes or at normal idle speed for more than 20 minutes." This has to do with the catalitic converter and is on page one of the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Did everyone miss this? Note: One of the first warnings in the Toyota truck 1987 Owner's Manual says, "Do not allow the engine to run at a fast idle speed for more than 10 minutes or at normal idle speed for more than 20 minutes." This has to do with the catalitic converter and is on page one of the manual. No more emission checks for me so I cut mine out and got some cash. Ha ha! Kidding aside, I run mine periodically for 15 minutes at normal idle if my toy is sitting idle for a couple months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I will check that actually good idea. I remember checking it two batteries ago lol. As 14.6. Volts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Steve, Yup, seen it. Idle your engine at your own risk. Stamar - I was looking at the specs on that little generator. Looks like a nice little unit, if you can get it for $90., It is a 2 cycle, so you need to mix oil. Also, it doesn't have a 12 volt output, so you can't charge batteries directly. A nice thing about the generator, you can use it at home in case you loose power. However, 800 watts isn't a lot. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 What size engine is the harbor freight engine? Remember all of its power is just alternator. In general it'll be how much gas it burns per cycle. Or 250 _cc. Vs 2400 cc car engine... About a tenth as much. 2 cycle is also inherently more effecient, and a 1 cylinder will get better gas mileage than a 4 cylinder. In the truck engines favor sohc has a lower idle vs operating speed. So it uses less when idle. However I would say.... 8 times as much gas at least. Whatever guesstimate told you your cars engine gets the same gas mileage as a lunchbox sized generator... you can throw all that out of the window. What gets better gas mileage, your toyhome or a train locomotive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 The quality of that generator as you might expect is not that great. I'm sure someone on toyhomes has used one and thrown it away. It would be ideal as a back up plan and a bad idea for everyday use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 your toyhome should fully charge your battery from 0 in 8 hours. That's not including my $eep cycle huge battery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary_M Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 your toyhome should fully charge your battery from 0 in 8 hours. That's not including my $eep cycle huge battery 0 would mean dead 10 volts? What about the safe standard 20% discharge, battery at 80%? I think that is around 11.1 volts? My house inverter alarms at 10.8 volts capacity. For some reason it always alarms in the middle of the night, scares the living hell of me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Stamar - The generator you looked at had a 63cc engine. Heres a very good discussion on "Brake Specific Fuel Consumption". BSFC A 4 cycle gasoline engine consumes about .45 lbs of gasoline each hour for each HP it produces. (gasoline is about 6 lbs per gallon) A 2 cycle engine is generally less efficient than this (probably up around .5 to .75 Lbs per hour), as it uses some of its fuel to cool and lubricate the cylinder, and it is not able to maximize combustion chamber utilization and ignition timing . Just for the sake of my sanity, The Data on this generator says it will run 5 hours on 1.1 gallon of gas at 1/2 rated power (450 watts). Running the numbers backwards, that means it consumes about 2.2 gallons (13.2 lbs) for 5 hours at 900 watts ( NOTE - 746 watts = 1 hp) or about 2.64 lbs per hour to generate 1.2 hp. This comes to 2.2 lbs per hp per hour. Remember I said its about 33% efficient. Now take the 2.2 lbs per hour and multiply by .33 comes to .73 Remember I said a 2 cycle is around .75 The BSFC number varies depending on where your operating on the torque curve. It also varies with the engine. Unrelated, but interesting, You can use this number (.45 lb per hp per hour) if you ever want to get an idea how much HP your generating while cruising down the road. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 No that's great its what I'm looking for. Sadly no laptops are listed with the draw they have. Some are listed as vew low power usage. The newest cpus say they have a 17 watt usage. But the other components are unknown. The newest phones use oled screens with very low power that aren't in laptops yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 10, 2012 Author Share Posted October 10, 2012 I'm not sure of the gas mileage of 2 cycle vs 4 cycle at all that the opposite. It also is putting out 800 watts vs the toy truck is putting out 60 watts. I'm not actually even sure that it doesn't put out 50 or more times the electricity per gallon of gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiter Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Stamar, a watt is a watt, doesn't care where it comes from. Watts are a unit of measure of power, same a HP The conversion for HP to Watts is 746 watts = 1 HP The generator your looking at is rated at 800 watts, the Alternator on your truck (if its a 50 amp alternator) is rated at (50 amps x 13.8 volts = 690 watts) about 700 watts, depending on rpm (I would say at least 1500-2000) The 2 cycle is less efficient, so it will burn more fuel to give you the same power as a 4 cycle. John Mc 88 Dolphin 4 Auto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Idling/running a parked engine with a cat is not a good thing it will over heat the cat there is no air flow to cool it, it can get hot enough to set fire to grass below it or the carpet above it that is way they say not to do it. It takes fuel to feed displacement generating a few hundred watts with a 130 hp engine is not efficient. Just keeping a vehicle engine turning at idle will use close to a liter an hour at zero MPG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 No the laptop would be primarily for web browsing I don't computer game much unfortunately. I use the laptop as my connection to society sort of like how many watch tv. I download tv, look for jobs, date communicate. Just a useful tool. Also if I had a laptopp running at all times I could cancel my cell phone bill and use clear.com and a voip, using my laptop and droid phone on wifi as a phone. Not exactly cellular but killing two bills with one. So at least 95 internet and downloading. Definitely no computer game addiction but would be nice to play a computer game in the rv. Well for now I've given up my online time and mostly use my phone. But I can't really see giving up using the laptop like I was on a land line because as far as I can tell modern laptops fit the bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Ok look then. In order to get the most juice out of the alternator you are running the toyhome at 5000 rpm. In one hour at 5000 rpm you can use at least 10 gallons of gas. And the other generator uses 2:2 gallons in an hour. So perhaps it is only 5 times as much. If you are interested google the question exactly and you'll see people answering in rv and boat forums which is more effecient the generator or the boats engine( not a small generator a big one) and universally they say a generator is much more efficient. I've. Been around generators that go all day and its more liike a gallon a day so I can't even computer it. In my mind a truck with a gas engine.... well its not even close or worth figuring out. Running your toyhome to power grow lights would use more like 20 gallons a day at idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Ya I'm lookong for a laptop that goes at least 12 hours a day. I'm not sure yet if I need to increase my capacity ie get another battery, and increase my recharging yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Waiter no offense but I don't feel the need to look it up for you because you are just so far off. Its a huge engine running and a small engine. The small engine uses less fuel. There's generators that are way more effecient but there's none in the world that are neat a 2:5 liter car engine. If you can come up with some data that a generator uses.... one fifth the amount of gas that running your car does to produce juice Its a 2.5 liter engine producing 700 watts. If it were 10 times more gas effecient it would still use many times more gallons of gas. More to the point I just used alternator charging to recharge my battery and it costs in gas in oregon dollars way more than it would cost to rent an office cubicle. All data shows that neither way finish the last 20 percent of the charge. All experts say they are both bad ideas, pro sailboat livers use less electricity and 400 watt solar panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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