1985 Toyota odyssey rear axle

[jcantrell]

Hello!

I was informed by the dealership the vin shows this 1985 Toyota Odydessey to have a heavy duty axle possible upgrade. It looks really different than the 5 lug axle wheel shown in the "famous" .pdf axle document. Can anyone add any details? Thanks so much!

Edited December 7, 2010 by jcantrell

[Derek up North]

It sure isn't the true 1-Tonne axle. They have 6 bolts holding the wheels to the brake drum and the hub protrudes through the middle of the wheel. On top of that, it looks like a couple of your wheel studs are too short, giving less than complete thread engagement.

Don't shoot the messenger!

[jcantrell]

another photo for possible comments

[WME]

Undo the 6 lugs and I think you will find a stock 5 bolt wheel and maybe an adapter or the stock wheel drilled for the six lugs. The "normal" 1 ton axle has wheels with 6

hand holes or 3 hand holes.

There also rumors of a 5 bolt one ton that was used for a very short time, but I've never seen one.

WME

[Diesel_Aggie]

You certainly don't have a full floating axle. On any heavily loaded vehicle it is the strongest safest option. If a full floating axle does break, it stays inside the rear end and all wheels stay attached to the vehicle. On a non full floating axle, everything outside of the break will soon be leaving the rear end with the wheels on that side attached. So if it broke the axle a few inches outside of center, out come your duals with about 3' of axle attached. Most Toyotahomes break at the very end so "only" your duals fly off. It can still total out the RV if it happens at speed or kill you.

Your axle is from the transition period and is a little different. What I find interesting is that the rear brake proportioning arm is on the driver side just like my original 5-lug axle. My full floater out of an 87 puts it on the right. It is possible you have a 1-ton axle. It still does not appear to be a full floating 1 ton axle designed to have dual rear wheels. It looks to me like the inner wheel is very different from the outer wheel leading me to believe this is still a DRW conversion. My recommendation would still be to upgrade.

If you take the wheels off I'd be interested in seeing more pictures.

[tumolt]

Hello!

I was informed by the dealership the vin shows this 1985 Toyota Odydessey to have a heavy duty axle possible upgrade. It looks really different than the 5 lug axle wheel shown in the "famous" .pdf axle document. Can anyone add any details? Thanks so much!

You'll have to find a 6 lug full floating rear to replace yours. I see the other responses already explained to you that you have a 5 lug with inner wheel bearing. They come apart. You need a full floater rear out of a Toyota U-haul box truck which is where I bought mine. I paid $600. for the truck at U-haul. Blown motor and bad tranny but the rear was fine. I recycled the truck cab for $60. at a local bone yard and made a trailer out of the box truck. Good luck. Matt

[85mirage]

I also have same axle as pict. Many posts on this subject and many diff answers. I dont plan on changing mine and i'll get alot of remarks for sayin that. One side of mine wobbles. I can see it in rearview and vehicles behind can see wobble. i think it started when one stud thread broke off and got it welded back on. Any bad 5lug rims 4sale in northeast?

[Diesel_Aggie]

85Mirage: I think you have the smallest lightest rig other than a Chinook. Yours probably has the best chance of surviving. The original poster has an Odyssey and if I'm not mistaken those are all heavy 21-22 foot units. Probably a decent gamble on the Mirage, but certainly not a long Odyssey. We've had at least 2 members on here have had the older 5-lug fail on 18' Sunraders. Many say those don't need a full floater either.

[Maineah]

There was such a thing as a heavy duty 5 bolt axle it had a greater radius between the axle and the hub it however is not a full floating axle and has only one bearing it is not strong enough for a 5,000-6,000# gvw motor home. If it is truly a heavy duty 5 bolt sell it to one of the off road guys they'll love it and put the money towards a a full floater.

[jcantrell]

Thanks so much for the replies! I have found a gentleman that has agreed to replace my rear with an ex-uhaul from late 90s for a grand. I really hate to do it because it is operating perfect! A mechanic said my unit it all checked out.

I have heard what I have is an upgrade heavy duty axle that has never failed...However, the horror stories with the fixed axle and wheels flying off leave me without any peace of mind. Its very frustrating not being able to get more solid information and having a cheaper solution.

I am confused because it looks so different than the typical 5 lug recall units. Does anyonme have any other ideas to see if this is not the recalled version? I have called toyota and the NHTSA with the vin and they have no records for recalls for specific VINS that go that far back...the dealer said my vin shows an heavy axle and said it would be fine but what does that really mean??

Edited December 8, 2010 by jcantrell

[Diesel_Aggie]

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/downloads/ Is a link to the recall files. It's a 5.8meg zip file that will have to be unzipped. It supposedly has all the recalls back to 1966. In 2008 I did find several of the actual recalls for the Toyotahomes. There were at least two if not three. I don't have that data anymore and it took hours to track it all down. Each recall has a specific number. Since the recall was through the motorhome manufacturer and not Toyota, each manufacturer should have a different recall number.

You could compare your rear axle bearing part numbers with those of my 1983 and see if there is any difference. We still have an axle that was not designed for dual wheels that had them added on. By putting part of the weight of the vehicle further out from what the axle is designed for you are putting more stress on it. For example lets say that the right rear was designed for 2000 pounds max weight with a single wheel. Now we add an extra wheel outboard of the first wheel. Each has 1000 pounds on it which totals the same 2000 pounds. The outer wheel is acting as a lever and putting more stress on the bearing than the same weight on a single rear wheel. You also have to consider the axle was designed for the weight/stress of one spinning wheel. By adding a second wheel you have doubled that force. You see similar problems on 4x4 trucks with large, heavy mud tires. Bearings wear out much faster.

Here is a video of what can happen when a wheel flies off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIHCLLrcnIQ

If your camper was a single rear wheel, I'd be inclined to run it as is and see how it held up. My opinion is the dual wheel conversion is a bigger problem than the axle weight capacity itself.

[Derek up North]

The actual (and I'm sure very carefully chosen) words from the recall (91V060000) for Dolphin Toyota motorhomes. I've seen other make recalls and the wording is the same:-

"Summary:

REAR AXLE BEARINGS MAY FAIL DUE TO A BENDING MOMENT CREATED BY THE

AFTERMARKET DUAL REAR WHEELS FROM A VARIETY OF FACTORS AND ESPECIALLY WHEN OVERLOADED. FAILURE OF THE BEARINGS CREATE STRESSES ON THE REAR AXLE, RESULTING IN THE BREAKAGE OF THE AXLE."

Source:-

http://auto-recalls....0000/index.html

So I'd suggest that at the very least you have the rear bearings inspected or replaced and the axles VERY carefully inspected or replaced with new. IF the bearings have not been allowed to deteriorate, then there should not have been undue stresses put on the axles. The recall very clearly states "FAILURE OF THE BEARINGS CREATE STRESSES ON THE REAR AXLE ...". But metal fatigue can do strange things!

I have no idea if there was a recall issued for the Odyssey. Apparently some makes were not because they were out of business when the recalls were issued in 1991. I believe the Sunrader, for example.

[Derek up North]

I'll correct myself before someone else does. There was a recall issued to cover the Sunrader, though I still believe they had ceased production before it was issued.

http://www.allworldauto.com/recalls/NHTSA_91V061000_1986_GARDNER_SUNRADER_recall_90021.html

[Derek up North]

And here's the recall for the 1985 Odyssey:-

http://www.faqs.org/...y-odyssey-1985/

It seems to me that since they issued recalls for all years up to '86 that the NHTSA considered them ALL bad. Or they didn't know about a 'Heavy Duty' axle .

[Diesel_Aggie]

These 3 posts give you the recall number such as 91V062000. I used those numbers to get the actual text of the recall through NHTSA. The three links posted basically say the same thing but it is or at least was possible to get the actual notice from NHTSA in 2008 through the NHTSA web site.

[Maineah]

Here is some thing to think about if the axle breaks they brake right at the hub and the axle now the hub, wheels and brake drum are still bolted together so if the real wheels leaving is not enough you now have no rear brakes because the wheel cylinder blew out from the lack of a brake drum. I would suggest that you weight your MH they are a great deal heavier then they look. The full floating rear drive axle carries no weight the weight is carried by two bearings and a large hub just like the front wheel bearings on a grander scale. You definitely have a semi floating axle the recalls were to replace the semi floating rears with a full floating assembly. I agree with Diesel Aggie the dual wheel set up just compounds the problem.

[wetboy]

It appears to me you have the upgraded axle...they called it "semi-floating", I think. That's the kind I have and it seems to be holding up well, even with my extreme overloading. That being said, if you really want the piece of mind, go ahead and have the full-floater put in, then load her up! As an experimental aircraft test pilot and skydiver, I tend to live a life a bit more on the edge than most. That being said, if someone came up with a cheap axle offer, I'd probably take it.

[jcantrell]

It appears to me you have the upgraded axle...they called it "semi-floating", I think. That's the kind I have and it seems to be holding up well, even with my extreme overloading. That being said, if you really want the piece of mind, go ahead and have the full-floater put in, then load her up! As an experimental aircraft test pilot and skydiver, I tend to live a life a bit more on the edge than most. That being said, if someone came up with a cheap axle offer, I'd probably take it.

Thanks wetboy...Can anyone tell me how to tell the difference between the semi floating, full floating, and fixed??

[Derek up North]

If it was mine, out of curiousity, I'd go back to the Dealer with the VIN and ask him for the Part Number for a wheel bearing and axle/shaft. With those numbers, I'd compare them with the same parts for the standard pickup Part Numbers and 1-Ton. Could give you an indication.

[Maineah]

Thanks wetboy...Can anyone tell me how to tell the difference between the semi floating, full floating, and fixed??

The semi floating axle had one bearing at the end of the axle to carry all the weight. A full floating axle has two and the axle is in the center of the hub there are no bearings on the axle it does not carry the weight of the MH the bearings do. Pretty much all cars (with rear wheel drive) and light trucks (1/2 ton) are semi floating any thing that carries 3/4 ton and up are full floating (with some exceptions) it is easy to tell by the large hub protruding from the center of the wheel that it is a full floating rear. The biggest problem of an over loaded semi floating axle is axle flex, if you have ever flexed a piece of steel back and forth until it breaks you'll under stand what can happen to an over loaded semi floating axle.

[fsprandy]

You might be better off with the axle you have than a used up U-haul one cobbled together under your rig. Remember, only a small fraction of the overloaded axles with the cantilever duallies actually failed. I still see them in service and it's been 25 years since they stopped using them. Your axle setup looks to be a huge improvement over the earlier one so you should be fine.

I actually have an '86 Sunrader on which the full-floating axle failed catastrophically. It effectively did exactly what the old axle does with both the housing and axle snapping off and the dual wheel assembly leaving the rest of the vehicle. The event wasn't nearly as scary as it is often portrayed to be. The spring stack which is quite tall and close to the ground acted as a skid supporting the vehicle and no doubt adding significant braking effect. The driver said he heard and felt a thump and then it coasted to a stop. Much less scary than blowing a front tire...

Thanks so much for the replies! I have found a gentleman that has agreed to replace my rear with an ex-uhaul from late 90s for a grand. I really hate to do it because it is operating perfect! A mechanic said my unit it all checked out.

I have heard what I have is an upgrade heavy duty axle that has never failed...However, the horror stories with the fixed axle and wheels flying off leave me without any peace of mind. Its very frustrating not being able to get more solid information and having a cheaper solution.

I am confused because it looks so different than the typical 5 lug recall units. Does anyonme have any other ideas to see if this is not the recalled version? I have called toyota and the NHTSA with the vin and they have no records for recalls for specific VINS that go that far back...the dealer said my vin shows an heavy axle and said it would be fine but what does that really mean??

[Maineah]

If a full floating rear failed it either was assembled wrong or it had been making lots of noise for a long time before the bearings ground to a halt. The axle did not brake and cause the failure if a full floating axle breaks you coast to a stop and get towed home nothing more and the likely hood is real slim. If a semi floating axle breaks you will lose the rear breaks and it will do extensive damage to the MH when it comes off and if you are lucky it won't flip over or run in to some thing. Yes I do mean to scare you it is not made for that much weight will it last 100K maybe but what chamber is the bullet in?.

[fsprandy]

If?

As I said failure was very similar to a broken axle on a non-floater. Both wheels came off together taking out the black water tank and some fiberglass on that side. It doesn't drop as far as one may think as the spring stack is tall and slung under the axle housing. It did grind the ends of the u-bolts pretty good! Owner was original and said it never made noise and had never been apart. Having examined it closely I'd say the housing simply failed. It really doesn't look very strong where it broke either. The small hubs allowed by the 14" wheels no doubt forced a design compromise limiting the strength of the full floating design.

If a full floating rear failed it either was assembled wrong or it had been making lots of noise for a long time before the bearings ground to a halt. The axle did not brake and cause the failure if a full floating axle breaks you coast to a stop and get towed home nothing more and the likely hood is real slim. If a semi floating axle breaks you will lose the rear breaks and it will do extensive damage to the MH when it comes off and if you are lucky it won't flip over or run in to some thing. Yes I do mean to scare you it is not made for that much weight will it last 100K maybe but what chamber is the bullet in?.