welded duallies...

[dogmush]

hey guys...

it's been awhile, and my toy sat for 2 years, but she's still on the road... i want to replace the tires, but no one in town here says they can deal with changing these welded duallie rims... any help? Or, has anyone tried to replace these 14" rims with 15"s front and back? Any help greatly appreciated...

[joetiff]

hey guys...

it's been awhile, and my toy sat for 2 years, but she's still on the road... i want to replace the tires, but no one in town here says they can deal with changing these welded duallie rims... any help? Or, has anyone tried to replace these 14" rims with 15"s front and back? Any help greatly appreciated...

I to would like to know the answer to this, as my 1983 HUNTSMAN is not ever going to be a canidate for a rear axle swap, She never has gone further than 50 mile round trips in her lifetime to go camping and it is going to stay that way !

[WME]

The tire shop may be doing you a big favor, sorry its not a good answer but thats the truth.

Options going from good to very bad

1. One ton rear axle.

2. weigh your toy and see if the rear axle weight exceeds the carrying capacity of 15" tires

A 195/70/15 LT has a carry capacity of 1984 lb per tire @ 65psi. So a rear axle of 3500 lb would give you some cargo capacity.

3. Weigh your Toy and see if the weight exceeds the capacity of a 185/14lt (1874 lb) So rear axle weight of 3300lb is OK.

4. Find another tire store and run 15 psi more in the inner tire.

If you do 2,3,or 4 you should pull your rear axles and inspect them and change the axle bearings.

[Gulfstream Greg]

hey guys...

it's been awhile, and my toy sat for 2 years, but she's still on the road... i want to replace the tires, but no one in town here says they can deal with changing these welded duallie rims... any help? Or, has anyone tried to replace these 14" rims with 15"s front and back? Any help greatly appreciated...

What coach builder, size and year is your motorhome?

[joetiff]

What coach builder, size and year is your motorhome?

my rear axle weighs in at 3100 lbs , weighed 3 different times on CAT scales.

[Gulfstream Greg]

my rear axle weighs in at 3100 lbs , weighed 3 different times on CAT scales.

That's light compared to the larger coaches which can easily weigh 6000 to 7000 plus pounds. But having the dual wheel set up on the standard truck axle is not good as it causes an unnatural leveraged flex at the end of the axle. The standard (non floating) axles break off at the flange, the part the wheel bolts to. I would suggest going to a single wheel with a larger tread width and weight capacity. A single wheel setup will center the wheel where it needs to be for a standard axle greatly reducing that leverage flex on the end of the axle. Maybe someone with more tire knowledge can chime in with their opinion about a single wheels capacity.

The same applies to dogmush. Depending on how much their rig weighs etc. If its one of the larger coaches then its best to replace the axle with the full floating type. Besides being a danger to themselves an innocent bystander can be killed when the rear wheel decides to depart and send the motorhome out of control at 60 mph.

[dogmush]

Hello again guys and thanks so much for all the quick responses and expertise. I love this site. My rv is a 20 foot 1985 coachmen with what i believe is the 1 ton floating rear axle (it has the 6 lug)... I can't weigh her quite yet as she's up on blocks for the new exhaust i just put on. I got rid of the cat and hope to convert her to propane before spring. (Anyone out there done this?) Couldn't i also go to a single rear wheel of wider width if she weighs in at a weight suitable or is it best to keep the dually set up? I was also thinking about 15" rims for this unless you guys think it best to stay w/ 14's... I took this on a cross country trip 3 years ago when i first bought it and i don't run her more than 55 mph (and that's downhill)... my thinking for the single rear rims and 15" all the way around would be easier on the little 22r 4 speed. Is this just neophyte thinking of trying to reinvent the wheel?

thanks again and i'll let you know how much she weighs when i can get her to a scale.

dogmush

That's light compared to the larger coaches which can easily weigh 6000 to 7000 plus pounds. But having the dual wheel set up on the standard truck axle is not good as it causes an unnatural leveraged flex at the end of the axle. The standard (non floating) axles break off at the flange, the part the wheel bolts to. I would suggest going to a single wheel with a larger tread width and weight capacity. A single wheel setup will center the wheel where it needs to be for a standard axle greatly reducing that leverage flex on the end of the axle. Maybe someone with more tire knowledge can chime in with their opinion about a single wheels capacity.

The same applies to dogmush. Depending on how much their rig weighs etc. If its one of the larger coaches then its best to replace the axle with the full floating type. Besides being a danger to themselves an innocent bystander can be killed when the rear wheel decides to depart and send the motorhome out of control at 60 mph.

[Maineah]

If it's 6 bolt it should not have welded wheels and if it's 20 feet it's heavy!

[dogmush]

If it's 6 bolt it should not have welded wheels and if it's 20 feet it's heavy!

hey again,

checked it out again (with the help of the axle facts page) and it's definitely the 1 ton axle so you're right, the one tire shop i took it too must've just thought they were welded so i'm going to take 'em off myself and get the 185r14's installed... and my tape measure tells me it is 20 feet from bumper to bumper, so i think i should probably just stick w/ the 14" dually set up... now that i'm finally able to be online here at home up here in the northwoods, i look forward to browsing this forum more often, and learning more about these things... thanks again everyone

[WME]

If you have the 1 ton rear, you have the right stuff. BEWARE some of the early 1 ton axles have left handed lugs on the drivers side. NORMALLY these units have the 6 hand hole rims, the 3 hand hole rims USUALLY have normal threads.

USE caution.

[WME]

my rear axle weighs in at 3100 lbs , weighed 3 different times on CAT scales.

If thats your weight you would be better off running a single rear wheel setup. Still change the bearings.

Good 5 bolt 14" rims are cheap. New D load range tires and 65psi would be OK. Make sure you have a good spare cause there is no limp home mode with only 2 rear tires..

All this is of course MHO, yours may vary

[joetiff]

If thats your weight you would be better off running a single rear wheel setup. Still change the bearings.

Good 5 bolt 14" rims are cheap. New D load range tires and 65psi would be OK. Make sure you have a good spare cause there is no limp home mode with only 2 rear tires..

All this is of course MHO, yours may vary

That is what I will do. Do you know where I need to go to get the bearings for the change. Is there a way to find out what axle I have, from the vin #

I see there is a lot of recomendations for the Yokohama Y-356, load range "D"

185R14 do you feel this is a good choice for going to the single rear wheel setup. w

Edited February 9, 2010 by joetiff

[WME]

Most auto parts stores should have the rear bearings. Somewhere around $35 ea side.

One thing to remember even though you will have a carry capacity of almost 700lbs based on the rear tires. The Toyota PU has a max gross weight of somewhere around 4000lb so the whole camper is already overweight, even if the tires aren't. This is why I keep harping on change the rear bearings. Some of the RV mfg were saying to change the rear axle bearings every 25,000mi.

When you pack things keep the heavy stuff forward of the rear axle. This way the front gets to share some of the load.

So think light, always.

[joetiff]

Most auto parts stores should have the rear bearings. Somewhere around $35 ea side.

One thing to remember even though you will have a carry capacity of almost 700lbs based on the rear tires. The Toyota PU has a max gross weight of somewhere around 4000lb so the whole camper is already overweight, even if the tires aren't. This is why I keep harping on change the rear bearings. Some of the RV mfg were saying to change the rear axle bearings every 25,000mi.

When you pack things keep the heavy stuff forward of the rear axle. This way the front gets to share some of the load.

So think light, always.

Thank-You for your prompt reply !

would a chilton book or haynes manual be a good source of info for replacing the rear axle bearings. Or is this a good job to send to the shop ? if so what should be expected for $ for the R and R.

Does the vin # have anything to say about the type of axle ?

and lastly when you mention a wide D tire an example of Wide would be appreciated.

Thanxs again

I sure wish I could get pics to upload because I have a bunch to share.

[WME]

Haynes makes a better book. Both should have axle removal procedure. Its medium hard and you will have to take the axle assy to a machine shop to get the bearing pressed off the axle and the new one pressed on.

The wide D range tire is a 15" so you would need new rims.

I have no idea about $$ for a shop to do the rear bearings. Just ask around.

[joetiff]

Haynes makes a better book. Both should have axle removal procedure. Its medium hard and you will have to take the axle assy to a machine shop to get the bearing pressed off the axle and the new one pressed on.

The wide D range tire is a 15" so you would need new rims.

I have no idea about $$ for a shop to do the rear bearings. Just ask around.

so what new rims that are 15 inch, will fit my old 14 inch hubs ?

or

What would be a donor car / truck ?

are they 5 x 4.50

thankS again, I just have many questions.

[WME]

There is not a donor car/truck for the 15" rims. They would have to be custom ordered. They would be in the $125.00 ea range. So the 15" conversion would be expensive for just 300lb of extra tire capacity. Don't forget the truck is already overloaded.

[joetiff]

There is not a donor car/truck for the 15" rims. They would have to be custom ordered. They would be in the $125.00 ea range. So the 15" conversion would be expensive for just 300lb of extra tire capacity. Don't forget the truck is already overloaded.

WME you have me confused at this point, you said in a earlier post this

If thats your weight you would be better off running a single rear wheel setup. Still change the bearings.

Good 5 bolt 14" rims are cheap. New D load range tires and 65psi would be OK. Make sure you have a good spare cause there is no limp home mode with only 2 rear tires..

All this is of course MHO, yours may vary.

then in your quote above you say something totally different !

PLEASE

HELP CLARIFY

And are the wheel patter 5 x 4.5 114.3 mm==this is what JEEP and some ford products use, so why would not a 15 inch wheel fro one of those automobiles work ?

[WME]

Sorry I just checked for Toyota 15" 5 bolt rims and there aren't any. So I said the only to go 15" would custom.

But as you pointed out there other trucks that use the 5x4.5 bolt Pattern. Checking E-bay the Ford Ranger uses them and you can get a set of steel 15x6" 5 bolt rims for $200 The 195/70/15 load D tires are $88.00. So the 15" swap is a good possibility. There even higher rated 15" tires but I couldn't find the Revs per mile for them so I don't know what would happen to your speedo.

You would just have to see if the front bearing hub will fit through the center hole on the Ford rims.

[joetiff]

Sorry I just checked for Toyota 15" 5 bolt rims and there aren't any. So I said the only to go 15" would custom.

But as you pointed out there other trucks that use the 5x4.5 bolt Pattern. Checking E-bay the Ford Ranger uses them and you can get a set of steel 15x6" 5 bolt rims for $200 The 195/70/15 load D tires are $88.00. So the 15" swap is a good possibility. There even higher rated 15" tires but I couldn't find the Revs per mile for them so I don't know what would happen to your speedo.

You would just have to see if the front bearing hub will fit through the center hole on the Ford rims.

Going to the auto salvage yard today, to see what I can find in the 5x4.5 bolt Pattern 15 inch wheels that will fit the rear and which center holes will clear the front hub bearings.

Will keep ya's posted on my finds.

[Gulfstream Greg]

Something to consider. Putting larger diameter wheels in effect drops your rear gear ratio. Stock is 4.10 and a guess is that it will be like a 3.9 or worse with the 15 inch rims. The end result will be that your engines rpm power curve will move up in miles per hour. So in second gear pulling a hill with the power curve at 3500 rpm and 40 mph it could be 3500 rpm at 50 mph (a guess) if you could get it to 50 mph. That might look good on paper but in reality you will be lugging the engine more and having to shift down more often because you will not have enough power in 3rd gear to pull that slight grade. So if you are already feeling like you do not have enough horsepower under the hood that feeling will be worse with the 15 inch rims. Might affect your gas mileage also. Your speedometer will be off also. Anyhow something to think about.

Here is a calculator for looking at ratios and wheel sizes etc http://www.toyotamot...les/mphCALC.xls If you do not have excel here is a reader to view the file http://www.microsoft...&DisplayLang=en I think a 15 inch tire is almost 3 inches in circumference larger than a 14 inch.

[WME]

Gerg, normally a very valid point. But with proper selection its not a proplem.

185x14 LT D range... 811 revs per mile

195/70X15 LT D range...810 revs per mile...

205/65X15 LT C range... 805 revs per mile ....also the weight capicity of a 15" C is the same as a 14" D, 1874lb

[Gulfstream Greg]

Gerg, normally a very valid point. But with proper selection its not a proplem.

185x14 LT D range... 811 revs per mile

195/70X15 LT D range...810 revs per mile...

205/65X15 LT C range... 805 revs per mile ....also the weight capicity of a 15" C is the same as a 14" D, 1874lb

Thats good info. I was feeling the pains of the guys who throw on some 35 inchers and wonder where did the horse power go.

[joetiff]

WHOA, sorry it took me awhile to post my junk yard find !

went looking for wheels , wound up buying a full float axle out of a 86 toy 1 ton truck, Got the axle, dual wheels, springs and shock mount plates for 200 bucks, loaded in the back of my truck !

now to find someplace to do the R AN R for me !

Now I'am a HAPPY camper.

[WME]

AH for you the ultimate answer, for the rest of us the questions still lingers about 15" rims.

[dogmush]

Thanks again for all your help again out there... rims not welded, but right before i got to ordering tires, first hard rain came with high winds and roof sagged... I removed ceiling to find this stick built camper full of dry rot 1x1s, haven't even looked at walls yet. So now i'm thinking of changing gears: i have an 86 toy 4x4 p/u with frame beyond repair and am thinking of just junking the camper and creating a 21 foot 4x4 flat bed, replacing the entire driveline. Does anyone know if an '86 4x4 driveline will bolt right into an '84 2wd longbed (using the camper's existing rear driveshaft)? I'd be replacing the camper 4 spd tranny for the 5spd w/ transfer case, cv joints and rear axle, 22r engine remains along with the rear driveshaft...

Any help appreciated.

Edited April 9, 2010 by dogmush

[Gulfstream Greg]

Thanks again for all your help again out there... rims not welded, but right before i got to ordering tires, first hard rain came with high winds and roof sagged... I removed ceiling to find this stick built camper full of dry rot 1x1s, haven't even looked at walls yet. So now i'm thinking of changing gears: i have an 86 toy 4x4 p/u with frame beyond repair and am thinking of just junking the camper and creating a 21 foot 4x4 flat bed, replacing the entire driveline. Does anyone know if an '86 4x4 driveline will bolt right into an '84 2wd longbed (using the camper's existing rear driveshaft)? I'd be replacing the camper 4 spd tranny for the 5spd w/ transfer case, cv joints and rear axle, 22r engine remains along with the rear driveshaft...

Any help appreciated.

Isn't the 86 4x4 an IFS front end? I don't think it would be an easy swap. There are guys out there using the earlier solid axles on the 86's, I think there is actually a kit. Might be a better option than the IFS swap.