straygoose Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 $11K for an '88 Sunrader? I realize Sunraders are more valuable than just about any other Toy MH, but that guy is nuts. Offer him 4-5K. Damn thing doesn't even have an internal gennie. And I'll bet it doesn't have roof air either, seeing as it's in the PacNW. I just bought an '87 Gran Ville with 32,000 miles on her, in basically unused condition, for $2600. I may have gotten a deal, but the price I paid is a lot more in line with values for that era than $11K. I swear, people on CL think their crap is made of gold. It's like that everywhere too, not just certain regions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 sounds like you got a deal stray. personally i wouldn't pay 11 either, but i know if i were to sell mine i'd start high, never know what buyer lurks, can always come down. i can see where a buyer after reading stuff about SRs onc could come away thinking they are worth twice what anything else is. i've seen where some units have sold for that and more that weren't SRs. value for toys are decided by the buyers more so than the sellers imo. and some sellers are very good salesmen ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Oh, no doubt. The seller of mine started at $4K and I started at 2200. But I don't think the price I paid is really cheap. Actually it's probably a couple hundred over book value. Nothing wrong with starting high and then settling, but when you start at 11K for a unit that maybe has a book value of 3K, you either have a highly inflated opinion of your Toy, or you're looking for a sucker. I just looked at the ad, and apparently the only real thing it has going for it is the awning. It has a rooftop unit, but I consider that standard equipment and not an option. If you didn't buy it new with roof AC, in my mind you were just being cheap. It's got semi-high (88K) miles too. Now I know that 22re's can go for aeons, but 88K is 88K, and you are probably looking at a timing chain, a clutch (if it's a 4spd) and maybe a few other things pretty soon, if not now. Brakes and rubber are likely to go soon, and I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut there's either an small oil leak, a small rear axle leak, a small trans leak, or all three at that mileage. That's not a big problem, unless it's a big leak, which makes it a BIG problem. Oh yeah, there's the age of the water pump too. In light of recent problems I had with my old RV. I would be taking as good a look as possible at that head gasket, but that's just me. "Selling my 1988 toyota sunrader classic with every option and more." "It has a generator on the back and an awning air bags and so much more." If it has every option, then why doesn't it have an internal generator? And as far as I know, air bags are after market too, not OEM. Apparently not a good idea either, since they seem to screw up your Load Sensing Valve, and fool it into thinking the vehicle is empty, thus screwing up your braking ability. There's a sticky on that subject in the forum. The fact that there is only one picture in the ad just reinforces the thought that the unit is mediocre. If it was mint, the owner would have maxed out the CL pics to attract attention, instead of just saying he had hundreds of them. "It gotten 16mpg this last summer from cheyenne wy to spokane wa." I used to live in Denver. When I was there I used to go up to Laramie with a buddy to catch a football game now and then. The thing that always amazed me about Wyoming is how windy it was there. I live in Texas now, and I swear Texas has nothing on Wyoming when it comes to wind. And guess what? The prevailing wind is from the WNW, which is pretty much the direction you gotta go to get from Cheyenne to Spokane. I know a Toy can easily get 16mpg, but not into that wind. I find that claim highly suspect, although I do accept that his 'rader will get 16mpg, going down wind, at 50mph, just like everone else's Toy. At the very least the guy is guilty of giving a bad example of the vehicle's capability. I've looked at waaay too many of these BS CraigsList ads, not only for Toys, but for all kinds of MHs, which is why I did the fisking job on it. Sorry about that, but its just a habit when I read these things now. Sometimes , if you read real close you can reject a unit based on all the contradictions in the ad. This one's close to that line. I've only owned mine for a month, and it is the first Toy MH I've had, so I'm not pretending to know everything there is to know about them. But I have been shopping for one, on-and-off, for probably almost five years. I've driven at least 40 of them, and crawled all over a few more. The one I found was actually one of the better examples of any I have looked at, which was lucky for me, since I was without a vehicle and needed to transport myself and a few hundred pounds of gear all the way back to Texas. I would have settled for less of a vehicle just to get my butt home. As a person, ahem, "in my prime," I have bought just a few vehicles, both new and used in my life. I know that at 88K, vehicles start, or have already started to do funny things, and that doesn't matter if it's a Toy or Ford or a Yugo. Well maybe not a Yugo, but that's only because there wasn't a Yugo built that made it to 88K. Usually a rear wheel fell off around about 10K. Now that I think about it. I would start at about the same spot I started with my GV ( $2200). It's likely going to need another thousand in immediate work, not to mention titling and reg., and who knows how much more in the first year the new owner has it. If that thing gets sold at 11K I will be shocked. Actually I'll refuse to believe it, unless someone actually shows me the bill of sale. Sorry about the length of the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 They are high asking for 11 k. mint condition 21 foot 22rec with 88 k, wouldnt spend more than 7k tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If you are in that ballpark I think long term the 4 cylinder 18 foot sunrader will eventually be worth more than the v6 itasca that is going for 10k now. So some of that is projected value. As these things get even older the leak free and the reliable better gas mileage will rise. The 18 foot size is better too, its going to become a classic. When I have better finances ill get one. Right in the middle of summer the sunrader spikes up in value for a collector quality version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 If you are in that ballpark I think long term the 4 cylinder 18 foot sunrader will eventually be worth more than the v6 itasca that is going for 10k now. So some of that is projected value. As these things get even older the leak free and the reliable better gas mileage will rise. The 18 foot size is better too, its going to become a classic. When I have better finances ill get one. Right in the middle of summer the sunrader spikes up in value for a collector quality version. You are probably right, but this thing still isn't worth 11K. Did anyone get the pics from the seller? What does the unit look like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboulan Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I just flew from Boise to Sacramento and picked up a really nice '85 Dolphin from an older couple. Everything works perfectly, drivetrain is great, just needed a little valve adjustment..they're out there! Good luck with your search! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Sacramento and the valley are an excelent place to buy rvs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uthorns Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Straygoose, you stole yours for $2600!!! You said as much in another thread. I do agree that $11k is too much for that Sunrader. We gave $6700 for ours. It's a 1985 model and if I hadn't bought it there were people in line. That's just a fact of the market for them. Book value has nothing to do with these toyhomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 You are probably right, but this thing still isn't worth 11K. Did anyone get the pics from the seller? What does the unit look like? Yes in his email he sent an attachment of photos, but they were like all other photos where they show the big picture, not close ups of certain areas. You know the typical across the street full photo of the rig, look at the rear bath photo that was taken up front by the overhead bed to just the reverse photo of the over head bed taken from the rear bath etc lol I have seen so many adds with the photos attached and 1. If I ask for detail photos I get the silent pause on the phone, then some excuse about not being able to. 2. When I bring up the typical concerns, tires, leaks, timing chain/belt their attitude changes real fast. 3. When I do go look at them, they are NOT what they described ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 Yes in his email he sent an attachment of photos, but they were like all other photos where they show the big picture, not close ups of certain areas. You know the typical across the street full photo of the rig, look at the rear bath photo that was taken up front by the overhead bed to just the reverse photo of the over head bed taken from the rear bath etc lol I have seen so many adds with the photos attached and 1. If I ask for detail photos I get the silent pause on the phone, then some excuse about not being able to. 2. When I bring up the typical concerns, tires, leaks, timing chain/belt their attitude changes real fast. 3. When I do go look at them, they are NOT what they described ... It's CL man. I feel your pain. I love Craigslist, but anymore it's almost not worth looking at. Gotta keep plugging away though, because you never know when a good one will show up. I still can't believe I hit on mine. It was a complete shot in the dark. Under normal circumstances I would have looked at the ad, said to myself, "Overpriced," and completely ignored it. I've seen enough of these things listed in the 4-6K range to last me a lifetime, so I tend to blow right past the ads. I suggest using Searchtempest.com. It's a great way to power search across whole states and regions. You just dial in your zip, distance, prices and, make, and it will give you a whole list of cities that you can go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Here are the picks from the Sunrader CL http://s305.beta.pho...lbum_view_click It does look nice , ... Funny tho , he has emailed this to me twice now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 He probably needs to move it fast, so he sent you a second set as bait. That might mean he will come way down from $11,000. It does look pretty nice. Those leather recliners are a nice addition. I'm not sure, but that might be custom striping and paint too. I'm not real familiar with the markings on Sunraders, but I though most of them were pretty much devoid of wide striping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 In his email ,( blanket email mine and at least 10 others) , he commented $10k is lowest he'll go , he'll keep it if he doesn't get that price... At that price I've been looking at bigger MH's Found a 94 Fleetwood up North Ca. Redding with 49k miles on it , we are going to go look at it Sat. morning they are asking $11,300. for it, but just talking on the phone earlier with the guy he sounded the price was somewhat flexible ... The guy said he would even rent it to us for a weekend and try it out , if we didn't like it it would only be $125 a day to rent it , if we liked it and bought it we would just pay our agreed upon selling price... Thought that was pretty decent... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Sounds like the guy with the Sunrader is Just trying to guage value then. Oh well. The other one at sounds reasonable, depending on the size and chassis. 49K is OK for a 454 or a 460. And $11,300 just screams "Give me 10K and I will kiss your feet." Might be able to go 9K if you're feeling frisky. Just make sure you do your due diligence on the bigger one. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uthorns Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 If you are willing too spend money on fuel and added maintenance the bigger on would definately be better. We have had class c motorhomes but just aren't able to use them as much as our toyhome because of finances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Here is a fantastic deal on a dealership farm fresh 1990 Sunrader 21 with MASSIVE stock hard to find cargo carrier: http://www.campingwo...unrader/240933/ I believe its also a V6 which is rare in a sunrader. Love the granite counter top. wow... indianna... in my back yard... folks this might be gone today. Stamar you out there should I flip this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted November 9, 2012 Author Share Posted November 9, 2012 Sounds like the guy with the Sunrader is Just trying to guage value then. Oh well. The other one at sounds reasonable, depending on the size and chassis. 49K is OK for a 454 or a 460. And $11,300 just screams "Give me 10K and I will kiss your feet." Might be able to go 9K if you're feeling frisky. Just make sure you do your due diligence on the bigger one. Good Luck. Yeah it has the ford 460 , I now what ya mean by more maintenance ,thats a major thing holding me back on it. The pictures look like its clean , but so has alot of the others lol. Will definitely have to look it over good ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Here is a fantastic deal on a dealership farm fresh 1990 Sunrader 21 with MASSIVE stock hard to find cargo carrier: http://www.campingwo...unrader/240933/ I believe its also a V6 which is rare in a Sunrader. Love the granite counter top. wow... Indiana... in my back yard... folks this might be gone today. Stamar you out there should I flip this? MASSIVE box. But I understand Sunrader had a warning sticker on them saying '15lb Max'. Probably chopped his price because of the strange remodel, with the stove waaay up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Yeah it has the ford 460 , I now what ya mean by more maintenance ,thats a major thing holding me back on it. The pictures look like its clean , but so has alot of the others lol. Will definitely have to look it over good ! The 460EFI is a really nice and reliable powerplant. It drinks gas like a drunk drinks whiskey, but you try and haul around 14,000lbs on a 26-30ft chassis and you'll use up a lot of energy too. Also, the face it presents to the wind is huuuuge, so that doesn't help the mileage either. Think barn door flying down the road and you got a Fords Class C motorhome. The problem is if the motor or trans lets go, it's expensive. The 460EFI and the C-6 trans that bolts to it are probably about $3500 each, right out of the crate. Add in whatever for installation. You gotta protect that drive train. A lot of people don't on these things which is why you see either the engine or the trans being replaced at as little as 70K sometimes, usually because they wanted to tow a 6000lb Expedition with her. The 460 is tough, but it does have its limits. All things considered though, I would take the 460 over the Chevy 454, but that's just me. Make sure you have a Fords mechanic look at the drive train. Everything else is secondary, including any possible leaks. Leaks are cheaper than engines. I love how tough Fords stuff is, but you still have to take care of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Yeah I thought it a strange layout also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Well we went and looked at three other toy MH's and maybe I'm just too picky or ? But these were not even close to what the sellers were saying they were. So we went and looked at some Class B van types and other Mh's private and well they weren't much better . SOO went to probably at least 8 MH's dealers and looked and drove and looked and drove lol wound up buying an 01 Gulfstream chevy power 22ft Class C with 33K miles , cleanest one we had seen 36 hrs on the generac 4800 ... Can't wait now long Thanksgiving weekend coming up !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Well we went and looked at three other toy MH's and maybe I'm just too picky or ? But these were not even close to what the sellers were saying they were. So we went and looked at some Class B van types and other Mh's private and well they weren't much better . SOO went to probably at least 8 MH's dealers and looked and drove and looked and drove lol wound up buying an 01 Gulfstream chevy power 22ft Class C with 33K miles , cleanest one we had seen 36 hrs on the generac 4800 ... Can't wait now long Thanksgiving weekend coming up !! Good for You! I hope you have a great time with her. She sounds like a winner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted November 12, 2012 Author Share Posted November 12, 2012 Thanks , I hope we do ! Now that we got the MH now its the take a few over nighters then when June hits we want to drive back to the East coast . I've never been further East than Sturgis SD which ain't far lol. Just always stayed over here on the West from Washington North to Arizona South, and a few other states Nevada , Colorado, Utah, New Mexico. Went to Sturgis in 05 , but that was a straight 24hrs drive there the 22hrs drive back, didn't have time to stop and see the scenery , this time around will have the time to stop and enjoy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Sorry but I have to ask, what kind of gas mileage does it get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uthorns Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 When the wife and I decided to get back into rv's we looked at a Minnie Winnie. I can't remember the length but had a smaller v8. We were just thinking at first about how much fun we had with the kids when they were growing up and such but when the owner said he got 8-10 miles a gallon it was a wake up call. I figured up it would cost us $25 in gas just to go to our local state park. I'm so glad we passed and started looking at Toyota. Y'all have lots of fun and hopefully you will be able to take the trips you dream of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 plus the GM motors are infamous for getting even less than 8-10. If I were going to stray from toyota, it would either be for a Sprinter platform (if I won the lottery) or more likely I would seek out an older 90's Ford econoline turbo-diesel platform model. At least they can do 11-14 and pull the house off its foundation, pun intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stamar Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 ya even the diesel american motorhomes are using a design from the 60s, ohv its not until gm starts using something called duramax diesel that theres a modern engine. a cummins diesel of this era at least has 4 valves/cylinder and gets much better gas mileage but its still atrocious. definitely the modern mercedes is the way to go, other than a cummins you can actually see what for its day was a modern diesel engine in the late 80s bmw vixen or bmw 528d and they squashed that engine in a couple years, in fact i believe the vixen used it because of this reason the car just made our cars look like pigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanman Posted November 16, 2012 Share Posted November 16, 2012 So I'm walking back to my van after breakfast today and I walk rite past a Istica, which I start checking out. registered in Tenn rear plate, front is a sign plate that says "retired". Young man walks up and we start talking. He bought it from a farmer in Tenn who used it to go 45 mi one way to his fishing holes and is now over 90 years old. He paid 3,000 $ for it and it wouldn't start so the guy went and got a new battery as part of the deal!!!! He started it up and with only 20 some 000 mi the V-6 is quieter than ours. Told him about this site. BTW it's a 1990 and he had all the original paperwork. So there are some bargains to be had still. vanman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OFDPOS Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 True they are out there , but as usual I'm always a day late or a dollar short ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90toydolphin Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 there's an upgraded one that a member on the yahoo group is selling, they are going to bigger unit. not sure where it is at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 This one? "We have decided to sell our 89 Winnie V6, 56k miles with many upgrades, located at Ithaca, NY. Mechanical and interior condition is excellent, exterior is good with no rust, some minor peeling of stripe decals, underbody is not rusty. New overhead bunk, front windows and trim reset, tires, timing belt, water pump, spark plugs, TV ant, water heater, spring bushings, 4:56 gears, new differential and rear wheel bearings, 1500W inverter, microwave, 19" LED TV, upgraded wiring, 2) 6v golf cart batteries, Air bag suspension, recent entire awning. $9000 This was new to us summer of 2011 with 42k miles. We are upgrading to a Sprinter based RV. This is an excellent opportunity to get a low mileage V6 Toyota that is already upgraded." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 18, 2012 Share Posted November 18, 2012 Straygoose, you stole yours for $2600!!! You said as much in another thread. I do agree that $11k is too much for that Sunrader. We gave $6700 for ours. It's a 1985 model and if I hadn't bought it there were people in line. That's just a fact of the market for them. Book value has nothing to do with these toyhomes. I don't know. Maybe out west they sell higher, but here in the east you get a mixed bag, trending closer to book value. You can see nice units for <$3K and POSs for $9-$10K. I know of one '92 in the Tampa area that's been $12K+ for at least two years now. It just sits and sits. I go to Tampa every March to work and its still there. OTOH, I let one go by in New Jersey last year, an '85 or '86 Dolphin,with a generator, for $2500. It had everything, including an awning. the odo was showing maybe 50Kmi., and the only blemish was a slightly crunched rear right corner. I'm still kicking myself over that one. I would say about $4-5K is the going rate in the east, unless it's a '90-'93 with a 6cyl., then it goes up some. There are a lot of them around too. Not hard to find at all. I still can't justify paying six to seven thousand dollars over book value, no matter how nice the unit is. At $11K they are asking almost four times what the NADA guide says they're worth. Think about that for a minute. If you were buying your ToyHome all over again, and someone told you you would have to pay for it four times over, would you buy? I wouldn't. I love my Toy, but there is no way in hell I would pay four times her actual value to own her. She's a beauty, but she's just not that valuable, in terms of dollars. Her intangibles are worth a lot, but you can't really put a dollar value on that, or every ToyHome would be selling for millions. If we were talking about a new unit in the $100-125K range, then yes, maybe a $6K overpay could be justified. But this is not a $100K unit. It's a 25+ year old Toyhome, which may or may not have been taken care of throughout its lifetime. They're great and wonderful little MHs, but they aren't made of gold. If you want to overpay for one, cut a good deal, and then spend the $4-5K you saved to customize her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Toyota Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 bought ours a year ago 7000 66000 miles 22re auto in central washington state no generator no rust 87 dolphin sold the 1978 minimax this march Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straygoose Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 bought ours a year ago 7000 66000 miles 22re auto in central washington state no generator no rust That's obviously not the '78 listed in your profile. What model do you have now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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