Air Bags, Bellows, Air Springs, Whatever!

[jjrbus]

I'm home and have the toy up in the air to replace the air bags. I pulled one out to get the numbers and not much luck there. They are stamped Firestone Riderite and the only number showing is 224C.

An internet search shows I might have kit # 1130 which uses Firestone air spring # 6873. My existing kit looks nothing like the Firestone picture? The firestone site shows # 6873 has 2 studs on top and one blindnut on the bottom. My bag/spring/bellow has 2 studs on top and 2 blindnuts on the bottom?

Little tired of trying to chase this down on the internet so any input greatly appreciated. Jim SW FL

Opps I D 10 T error. 93 Toyota Seabreeze 6 Cyl Auto.

[jjrbus]

Forgot to click add! Air spring 6873

[Derek up North]

You say yours looks "nothing like" the 6873.

Are your studs spaced @ 2.75"? Are the bottom ones spaced @ 2.75" & 3/8"-16?

Any chance you could drill your existing bracket with a single 7/16" hole and use the 6873?

[Derek up North]

Sounds like you might have F0335 air springs. Check the dimensions.

http://www.etrailer.com/Accessories-and-Parts/Firestone/F0335.html

[jdfrost64]

1130 work if you have at least 3 inches of clearance from frame to tire.

[jjrbus]

I thought the kit looked nothing like the 1130 but I was mislead by "picture may not be an actual representation of product shipped". This is what I have.

The airbag is a double convoluted,

The studs on top are fine thread and spaced 2.75" The bottom holes are spaced 2.75" and are 3/8 16.

Yes drilling a single 7/16" hole in the bottom is an option.

FO 335 Appears to be very close to what I have.

I did find more numbers stamped on the metal top part, 2722D 3071, but a web search returns nothing?

Any cheaper options?

Thanks for the quick response, always appreciated. JIm SW FL

[jjrbus]

1130 work if you have at least 3 inches of clearance from frame to tire.

1130 seems to be the entire kit. I have the kit and need to replace the air bags/springs/bellows. Thanks JIm

http://www.amazon.com/Firestone-Ride-Rite-Brackets-Inflation-W217601130/dp/B0034NXJKS

[Derek up North]

The studs on top are fine thread and spaced 2.75" The bottom holes are spaced 2.75" and are 3/8 16.

I did find more numbers stamped on the metal top part, 2722D 3071, but a web search returns nothing?

Any cheaper options?

2722D 3071 is probably an internal part number for the top plate. 224C is their part number for the rubber part and they make different 'spring assemblies' by adding different top and bottom plates for different mounting options.

http://www.amazon.com/Firestone-W21-760-0335-Double-Convoluted-Replacement/dp/B004RCXDH4

or a 'clone':-

http://www.truckspring.com/products/Connect-Double-Convoluted-Air-Spring__190335-DC.aspx

Hopefully the clones ship faster than Amazon.

[jjrbus]

If 224C is the rubber part number. And that is the number stamped on the rubber! Then other 224C should work if they fit?

There are Maxxair bags on Ebay for $99 a pair that claim to be 224C replacements. They would only require a new mounting hole drilled in the bottom bracket.. Or are the other brands junk and I should stick with Firestone??

Expiring minds need to know.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/two-new-standard-2600-air-bags-3-8-npt-port-ride-springs-bag-suspension-fbss-/121566282478?vxp=mtr&hash=item1c4dea42ee

[Derek up North]

Sorry, I know nothing about them. Google didn't turn up anything either.

[jjrbus]

I checked the local truck place and no savings there, more expensive. Did several web searches and made a couple calls to no avail.

I find little to nothing on the Maxxx Air bags. So guess I will have to be the guinea pig and give them a try. They list a set of bags as 224C replacements for $99.98 pair. The port is 1/2" instead of a 1/4 and has single mounting hole on bottom instead of 2. I do not see either as a big deal.

The store is WheelsNparts, been an Ebay member since 2001 with a 99.8% positive feedback on 33,000 sales.

Will follow up as things progress. JIm SW FL

http://www.ebay.com/itm/two-new-standard-2600-air-bags-3-8-npt-port-ride-springs-bag-suspension-fbss-/121566282478?vxp=mtr&hash=item1c4dea42ee

[jjrbus]

I found one person on the other Toy forum who used these bags. I ordered them wed afternoon and they are sitting in my garage Sat. Quick delivery. Looking them over I see nothing obvious that they are an inferior bag or cheaply made. In the ad they appear to have one bottom mounting hole but actually have 3. The bolt pattern on holes matches the original mounts The bags are stamped Air Maxx 2B2600. All I need now is a 1/2" to 1/4" adapter for the port and I am good to go.

Left click on photo for larger picture. JIm SW FL

[zero]

I found one person on the other Toy forum who used these bags. I ordered them wed afternoon and they are sitting in my garage Sat. Quick delivery. Looking them over I see nothing obvious that they are an inferior bag or cheaply made. In the ad they appear to have one bottom mounting hole but actually have 3. The bolt pattern on holes matches the original mounts The bags are stamped Air Maxx 2B2600. All I need now is a 1/2" to 1/4" adapter for the port and I am good to go.

Left click on photo for larger picture. JIm SW FL

Looks like a great buy if the Chinese rubber does not self-destruct in a year. One way to find out is try.

I suspect your original kit was the Firestone # 1130 with the part # 6873 replacement air-bag. I don't think Firestone even made them and just got from another company. Lots of parts swapping going between big companies.

The Firestone # 6873 bags also carry maybe an OEM part # of W217606873. Air Ride Company uses the same size bags with the same height, 3/8" bolts/nuts spaced at 2.75" and sells them by part #s 58491 and # 58496, called a type 2B-6. That "2B" sounds similar to the listing on Ebay. Last time i bought air-bags from Ride-Rite they were actually made by Goodyear.

You just need a bag with the 5.5" to 7" ride-height that fits and you can get bolted in.

[jjrbus]

Thanks JD. The bags seem to be a match with the F0335. The Chinese stuff is always a crap shoot on quality, however there is no made in ??? stamped on the bags.

I have already run into the first issue. The ports on the bag look like 1/2" NPT but the 1/2" MIP X 1/4" FIP brass adapter goes in about 2 threads and stops. I have no desire to force this while I am still eligible for a refund. The threads in the port seem to be straight and not tapered like NPT. Been doing some web searching looking for a solution. The only option I see at the moment is to use a 1/2" pipe tap on the port.

I was looking for a 1/4 x 1/2 DOT type push in to threaded elbow and they all spec NPT threads. Interestingly none seem to be 1/2 pipe thread to 1/4" tubing? Guess I should go measure and make sure I have 1/4" tubing?

Jim

[Derek up North]

I'd contact the seller about the threading.

[jjrbus]

Sent a note off to the seller. Did some web surfing, found one machinist/maintenance man that claims this is becoming a common problem. Says that as manufacturers equipment wears it is not being replaced in a timely manner, causing the threads to be too tight.

The life of a guinea pig is not always a bed of roses. Jim SW FL

[jjrbus]

Heard from the seller. He claims that the paint in the threads is too thick and needs to be cleaned. I took the opportunity to run a 1/2" NPT tap into the hole. It will go in 4 1/2 turns and then stops. I do not want to use force till the seller agrees to stand behind them if ruined.

I notified the seller that it was not thick paint causing the problem. No response. Although I received a notification from Ebay that a package has been shipped to me from the same seller?? Sympathy card, pipe bomb? If it ticks I am not opening it!

I was contacted by another member that they had the same problem with the same brand name and solved it by using plastic fittings from HD/Lowes. That will be my last option.

[Derek up North]

Maybe the threads on the pipe bomb will be correct?

[jjrbus]

Now that's funny!

[jjrbus]

A simple job taking 3 weeks! Defective parts, waiting for parts. Fittings were $6.50 each so I did not want to order until I had usable airbags. Fittings were not available locally took 8 days for delivery, rather frustrating.

The 1/2" MNPT X 1/4" push in fitting almost worked, see photo. My options were drill out bracket to clear fitting or shim. I decided to add a 3/16" shim between top of air bag and upper mount so fitting would clear. In the grand scheme of things 3/16" should not make that much difference. I hope? Shim, ie cut up bed frame!

The upper mount on the passenger side was welded to frame so taking top nuts off was an uncomfortable time consuming project.

Removing U bolts on bottom was a struggle until I decided to cut out air bag and use impact wrench to remove nuts. Multi-tool and utility knife made quick work of bag. Wish I had thought of it on other side

Left click on photo to enlarge.

Made a holder (more bedframe) so as not to stress air bag when installing fitting.

Note, air bag is not centered on mounting bracket, need to pay attention to brackets when removing.

Not posting as a how-to by someone knowledgeable, just my experience. Jim SW FL

[jjrbus]

I impressed myself by using shims so bracket would clear fitting. I was surfing another Toy sight and noticed shims between air bag and bracket. Must be a common issue? Left click photo to enlarge

Jim SW FL

[jjrbus]

I am ready to install the 2nd airbag and even with the shims there is not enough room for the fitting to clear the upper bracket which is welded to the frame. I look I poke I prod, something is slightly different? Ended up I had to drill and grind the bracket to create enough clearance for the fitting. Not a fun job working in the wheel well.

I am going to have to give the discount airbags with a 1/2" port a doable but not the best idea rating. Jim SW FL

[Back East Don]

I think you have successfully convinced me to forgo this as an upgrade. Even though I would love a bit of a lift for the old girl.

[jdfrost64]

I have a new set of 1130 firestone still the box for sale 270 and whatever cost for shipping .don't need rear that I bought already had new ones on it

[jjrbus]

I think you have successfully convinced me to forgo this as an upgrade. Even though I would love a bit of a lift for the old girl.

You would be working with new brackets and airbags with 1/4" ports and not run into the issues I did. I also notice that the new brackets have a clearance area for the fittings, according to the picture.

[jdfrost64]

jjrbus they are the bags I have for sale

[jjrbus]

In the last couple months I have noticed a slow leak in the air bags.   I spent a bit of time here and there looking it over but did not see a leak.  Yesterday I decided to pull the wheels and go over it until I found the issue.  I soaped everything up and sat patiently and watched. It took some time but there are 2 small leaks where the rubber is crimped to the upper mounting plate.

I sent message to seller and they asked if I had checked all the fittings.   I responded yes and am waiting for a reply.     Jim

[zero]

My Air-Lift air-bags are guaranteed for life as long as Goodyear keeps them available.  I think that is their policy for all they sell. 

[jjrbus]

I saved a bunch of money buying off brand, mine also have a lifetime guarantee.   Chinese made bought off Ebay, what could possibly go wrong? 

This was starting to get to me as I could not find a leak, I was considering a long drive to a friends who has a ultrasonic leak detector.   Jim 

[Totem]

slime them.

[Derek up North]

4 minutes ago, Totem said:

slime them.

Worth a try, I guess, but if the slime will seal a leak at the upper plate seems to defy the Laws of Gravity.

[jjrbus]

Slime them!  Super great idea, give the seller a valid excuse to void the lifetime warranty! 

Contacted seller, he will replace bag under warranty, however he wants me to send defective bag and he will replace, which will tie up the Toy for too long.   He agreed to me buying 1 new bag and he will refund purchase price when I send defective bag.  Which to me is more than reasonable and what I consider very good service.  They are also very quick to respond to emails.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jim  SW FL

[Totem]

41 minutes ago, Derek up North said:

Worth a try, I guess, but if the slime will seal a leak at the upper plate seems to defy the Laws of Gravity.

unfortunately if air pressure didn't do that everyday airplanes wouldn't fly. pushes the air and the slime to the hole fills it; but hey whatever floats your boat... Slime is not water it coats like pepto as it rides down the wall and the pressure pushes it through the hole.

 

[Totem]

6 minutes ago, jjrbus said:

Slime them!  Super great idea, give the seller a valid excuse to void the lifetime warranty! 

Contacted seller, he will replace bag under warranty, however he wants me to send defective bag and he will replace, which will tie up the Toy for too long.   He agreed to me buying 1 new bag and he will refund purchase price when I send defective bag.  Which to me is more than reasonable and what I consider very good service.  They are also very quick to respond to emails.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Jim  SW FL

have fun replacing your chinese airbags over and over and over then; warranty doesnt equal quality. pin holes can be slimed; and if you are determined to replace the bags then it shouldn't matter; slime is for those that wish to camp not wait for the mailman. forever

[Derek up North]

1 hour ago, Totem said:

... as it rides down the wall ...

Exactly. I don't see it finding it's way to the UPPER plate. And my boat always floats.

I'm somewhat puzzled by the airplane analogy.