Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Hey ya'll! i just bought a 1981 Sunrader from Gold Beach Oregon. Super excited about it! Mechanically it is in great shape, the interior is a bit gritty, but not bad. Say, has anyone here ever gotten rid of the loud CRACK, SMACK, CLUNK when driving over rough roads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 That is in nice condition for an 81. Someone has fiberglassed over the huge front windows and looks like a good job at it. The sounds while driving could be bad shocks, ball joints or any number of loose stuff under there. You do have the recalled axle. It can break at the hubs and your wheel falls off. Look through he site and see more about it. Some have just gone to a single wheel in the back to relieve the stress on the bearings caused by those "fake duallies" That's what we call them. Inside wheel is no offset and outside wheel is extreme offset instead of both being the same like real duallies. Not good Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Nice, but, I'd get rid of the death axle before you hear the worst possible crack, the one the rear axle makes when it snaps. You shouldn't have too much trouble finding a proper full floater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Linda, Have you seen anyone just going to the single rear wheel and a good heavy duty tire? I would think it might be a perfectly acceptable fix for a shorty, so long as you don't go crazy with overloading it. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 The single-tire Toyota trucks overseas still have the same 5 lug wheels and semi-floating rears as those had here in the mid 70s to mid 80s.  Those are still sold new today and have gross-vehicle weight ratings over 6000 lbs.  Single rear tires in sizes e.g. 195R-14C, 205/70R-15C, 205R-16C, 255/70R-15C, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Wonder of anyone has tried a single wheel domestic 3/4 or 1 ton rear? Plenty of them out there and I suspect the track would be about right. And they are a dime a dozen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Fred Heath here recently put a USA full-floater in the back of his Toyota Champion Galavan.  He gives a lot of info on his install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 The previous owner did a near complete drive train renovation. He believed he solved the issue without having to have different types of tires on the front and rear. He put 8 leafs on each side and air lifts. This thing drives really really well... although i did have one of the yokohama 356's explode on me on my drive back from Oregon.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I'm sorry but no one solves the axle issue and still has fake duallies on it. It's those wheels that cause the problem. With them in place the bearings are under constant stress and eventually they will fail. You have 2wd so having different size tires front and rear isn't an issue. We've been doing this Toyota camper thing a long time. You won't find anyone here who will tell you it's OK the way it is Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 What you mention as having been done does not address the issue. Sunrader - 91V061.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 I was implying that its easier to carry only one spare! But that is awful news. While I cant have any opinion on these things because i just dont know, i believe his reasoning was that with the airlifts and extra leafs it wont actually float around so much causing most of the wear.... what you think about that?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 The wheels acting on the bearings and axles has nothing to do with the leaf springs or air springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 P.S. Sorry we're all raining on your parade! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 No were protecting his new toy. it's not that bad. There was a day when we would have all insisted you change the entire axle. Now we think some single wheels in the back will probably be enough. The thing most people worry about with single wheels is stability on the road but in your case all those suspension upgrades will likely make it very stable anyway. Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 It is a heavy rainstorm over this parade... especially for a young man who spent the hefty $$ for this thing (6K). it has a new webber carb, and new 22R with a cam in it tho! (but yall prolly have bad news about that aswell)... Whats the protocol for making this axle swap? cheapest method preferably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Cheapest method? Install it yourself. How mechanically inclined are you and do you have somewhere to work on it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 lets assume, i am inclined and i could find a place to work on it. This info is really up in the air in truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 13 minutes ago, linda s said: No were protecting his new toy. it's not that bad. There was a day when we would have all insisted you change the entire axle. Now we think some single wheels in the back will probably be enough. The thing most people worry about with single wheels is stability on the road but in your case all those suspension upgrades will likely make it very stable anyway. Linda S wait, arent you telling me that i DO have to swap the whole axle for a 1ton full floater? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 It's pretty much a bolt-in swap but it's a hefty chunk of steel, so you won't want to be doing at the curb.. The next problem is finding an axle and 4 (or 5) rims. Nearby is better because shipping is a killer. If phoning around, don't fall in the trap and buy a '6-bolt' axle unless you're absolutely certain that it's not from a 4x4. 6-bolt perhaps, but won't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 Nope I think you would be fine with single wheels. A little wider than normal but still fit the bill. Wouldn't these look killer on your rig http://www.ebay.com/itm/14-x6-Pacer-Chrome-Directional-330C-Chrome-5x4-5-0-ET-330C-4612-Single-Rim-/282040447966?hash=item41aaebb3de:g:LTMAAOSw9ZdXJ0Pv&vxp=mtr And here are some wider tires with the right load rating https://www.tires-easy.com/205-14/thunderer-tires/ranger-r101/tirecode/TH0309 Way cheaper and easier than a new axle. Those axles can cost a grand before you've even started and for an 81 the are new shock mounts and spring perches to be welded on. It's all about taking that stress off the bearing. You notice that wheel is 0 offset. Â Like JD says they are still selling single wheel Toyota heavy duty trucks and some motorhomes in the rest of the world. Have your bearings checked or replaced while your at it. Start fresh so your sure there's no wear Linda S Oh and if one of your tires exploded you need to replace them anyway. Are they old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 From the NHTSA:- Â Sunrader - RC-91V061-NN.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Well, my rear bearings, axel and suspension have all been pimped out recently....lol. So i can make this swap forsure. What im failing to understand is what i need to replace my current axle with exactly. I would love to keep the wheels i have now for economic reasons. I just pulled up the Toyota motorhome rear axle FAQ link someone provided on the site. im sure that will answer my questions. But if any of you have specific recommendations or advice i would love it deeply. Am i keeping the dualies or getting a singles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 If you change the axle you can't keep those wheels. Not the same lug pattern. You will need to find the true Toyota wheels to match the new axle. You need to read as much as you can about it. See if you can even find an axle and wheels and price them out and hopefully some of the guys here will tell you what's involved in the replacement process. It's not a plug and play job. Narrower chassis Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 just talked to the previous owner, he said he took it in to the toyota dealer in southern Houston and the boys there told him the axle is actually rated at 1 ton and that the recall wasnt for the 18ft rader... Now, this guy was real serious about the reliability of his rader. I will call Toyota tomorrow to check him on that... in the mean time i will read read read! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 If you read the recall paperwork specific to the Sunrader that I posted above, you'll see that the recall applied to ALL motorhomes with the foolies installed and says nothing about the length or weight. So I'll suggest that the 'boys' at the dealer didn't know what they were talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 There is a thread on this site where one of our members wheels fell off of his 18ft Sunrader with the bad axle. Strangely another member happened to witness it and they didn't even know each other. I know of 2 other Sunrader owners, both 18ft, who just barely made it home in theirs after they picked them up. He had a vested interest in telling you it was OK. We on the other hand are just trying to help. Bet he's a member here and already knew all about this crap Linda S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 Oh yea he definitely knows about it.. it was discussed thoroughly. He had the rear axle picked out and everything but decided against it after learning the info i have relayed to ya'll. he took apart the rear end and said the bearings and seals were all in good condition when the car had 38k on it... I gotta start looking for where to buy a new axle... any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linda s Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 I use www.car-part.com for parts searches. Unfortunately the listings are not updated often enough Here's the closest place that lists one Gundies Auto Recycling USA-WA(Seattle-Portland) Request_Quote 1-800-444-4344 Request_Insurance_Quote They have wheels listed too. 45 bucks a pop and you need 4 If you go to car-part to look further put in 1987 to 1993. You only want to look for years that the correct axle was available of course. Linda S Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86rader Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 (edited) A shorty Sunrader is about as light as a toyhouse can be and it is "less bad" than having one on a 22 ft Odyssey, but, it is still bad. The problem is not the tire, the wheel or even the bearing. The problem is that the load is not directly under the bearing, it is a number of inches outside the bearing. This causes a twisting force on the bearing rather than a simple vertical force. As a result the axle shaft flexes and eventually it can snap, without warning. If it snapped but stayed under the vehicle, you would simply be stranded on the side of the road. It doesn't do that. The axle is what keeps it from shooting out from under the rig. The result is, at a minimum, a lot of frame/coach damage as it skids down the road, at maximum, it will barrel roll into the ditch. and this will not be much fun for any passengers. As for the weber carbed 22R with a hopped up cam, I say awesome! Weber has made carbs for elderly 22Rs forever. It is a good mod. Assuming the rest of the rig is as sound as you say, I think 6 grand was a very fair price, even with the death axle. Edited August 27, 2016 by 86rader added text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjrbus Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 While you are at it, might as well learn to read tire date codes in case you come across an axle that has tires with "lot's of tread" 7 years is the max most people will use tires. The blowout you had may or may not be due to old tires. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?gclid=CM-CnOnM4c4CFcECaQod2uUPzA&techid=172&s_kwcid=AL!3756!3!105373771693!e!!g!!dot tire codes&ef_id=V0y8QQAAAAxtdod7:20160827123051:s Being blindsided on this the cost may be upsetting, however the first couple years depreciation on a new one will be bare minimum $15000. So you are still ahead of the game. That's how I delude myself into thinking spending money on mine is ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 2 hours ago, 86rader said: a very fair price, even with the death axle. I don't buy the "death axle" myth. I've yet to see any evidence that anyone has ever been killed due to an axle snapping in two on the rear of a Toyota motorhome. Â I WILL note that axles have broken on bare pickups and rear-wheel drive cars too. It is not just a Toyota RV thing. Â I've also had it happen with a 1/2 Chevy pickup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 10 hours ago, linda s said: I use www.car-part.com for parts searches. Unfortunately the listings are not updated often enough Here's the closest place that lists one Gundies Auto Recycling USA-WA(Seattle-Portland) Request_Quote 1-800-444-4344 Request_Insurance_Quote They have wheels listed too. 45 bucks a pop and you need 4 If you go to car-part to look further put in 1987 to 1993. You only want to look for years that the correct axle was available of course. Linda S Â Linda, I had understood you saying that i did not need a whole new axle... but that single wheels would be fine. this option sounds cheaper and easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 2 hours ago, jdemaris said: I don't buy the "death axle" myth. I've yet to see any evidence that anyone has ever been killed due to an axle snapping in two on the rear of a Toyota motorhome. Â I WILL note that axles have broken on bare pickups and rear-wheel drive cars too. It is not just a Toyota RV thing. Â I've also had it happen with a 1/2 Chevy pickup. the guy i bought it from is convinced its not a deal with the small rader. he thinks its better and cheaper to just open and inspect the bearings every so often Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted August 27, 2016 Share Posted August 27, 2016 In the context of this forum, I know I am being redundant.  But - just in case some of this info is new to you - I will repeat.  The same semi-floating rear with 5 lug wheels that Toyota began to use in 1975 is the one many are calling the "death axle." It is still in use all over the world and nobody seems to have any issue with it when used with HD trucks and GVWRs over 6000 lbs.  Note though that they do NOT put dually-adapter kits on them. It is just the  greatly offset adapters RV makers used that put undue stress on the rear-axles.  I'm sure many also overload the RVs and that just compounds the issue.  Get rid of the adapters and duals, put on single tires, make sure you have two good wheel bearings and all should be fine.  The rear-axle itself has a 3300 lb. safe, continuous-use rating. If unsure - just check your weight on the rear wheels when loaded. On an added note.  The Toyota 5 lug semi-floating rear axle is very close in design to what Ford used to use in 1/2 ton pickups. For all I know, Toyota copied it.  On either the Toyota or Ford, you do NOT have to break an axle to have it fall out with a wheel attached to it.  All that holds an axle in is the wheel-bearing. It is just a single sealed ball-bearing. If it runs dry and falls apart - the axle falls out.  That is why it is a good idea to always make sure the bearings are in good shape. If you buy a vehicle with unknown miles - or unknown repair history - it is a great idea to just put brand-new rear wheel-bearings in and then have some security.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dgillies Posted August 27, 2016 Author Share Posted August 27, 2016 4 minutes ago, jdemaris said: In the context of this forum, I know I am being redundant.  But - just in case some of this info is new to you - I will repeat.  The same semi-floating rear with 5 lug wheels that Toyota began to use in 1975 is the one many are calling the "death axle." It is still in use all over the world and nobody seems to have any issue with it when used with HD trucks and GVWRs over 6000 lbs.  Note though that they do NOT put dually-adapter kits on them. It is just the  greatly offset adapters RV makers used that put undue stress on the rear-axles.  I'm sure many also overload the RVs and that just compounds the issue.  Get rid of the adapters and duals, put on single tires, make sure you have two good wheel bearings and all should be fine.  The rear-axle itself has a 3300 lb. safe, continuous-use rating. If unsure - just check your weight on the rear wheels when loaded. On an added note.  The Toyota 5 lug semi-floating rear axle is very close in design to what Ford used to use in 1/2 ton pickups. For all I know, Toyota copied it.  On either the Toyota or Ford, you do NOT have to break an axle to have it fall out with a wheel attached to it.  All that holds an axle in is the wheel-bearing. It is just a single sealed ball-bearing. If it runs dry and falls apart - the axle falls out.  That is why it is a good idea to always make sure the bearings are in good shape. If you buy a vehicle with unknown miles - or unknown repair history - it is a great idea to just put brand-new rear wheel-bearings in and then have some security.  That was beautifully worded good sir. I may be mistaken but Linda here was also saying that just switching it to a single wheel would work fine. That is what i plan to do! Are there any mods i need to make or do i literally just need to find a wider tire that sits on my 5lug axle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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