AbleThought Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hey! I am about to install a 12volt power outlet in my 83 19ft Sunrader. I would like to put it right by the fuze box. I have an open fuze so I'd imagine tieing it in right there would be easy enough. The distribution panel looks simple but I havnt really worked on something like this before. How do I shut off 12v power in the RV? Should I run into any problems running a 12v outlet from my distribution panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Just use the empty fuse holder on the left and stick in nothing bigger then a 20 amp fuse. I don't know what your power outlet is rated at but the best max out at 20 amps. Many cheap ones are only 10 amps. I don't know why you want to turn off the DC power - but to do so just pop out that big fuse on the top right. 30 amp I assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 29, 2016 Author Share Posted March 29, 2016 2 hours ago, jdemaris said: Just use the empty fuse holder on the left and stick in nothing bigger then a 20 amp fuse. I don't know what your power outlet is rated at but the best max out at 20 amps. Many cheap ones are only 10 amps. I don't know why you want to turn off the DC power - but to do so just pop out that big fuse on the top right. 30 amp I assume. ok so the fuse to the left gets the positive wire and all the way to the right below the 30amp fuse is where I run the ground? Is that right? i just figured I wouldn't want current going through the panel if I'm working on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 2 hours ago, jdemaris said: Just use the empty fuse holder on the left and stick in nothing bigger then a 20 amp fuse. I don't know what your power outlet is rated at but the best max out at 20 amps. Many cheap ones are only 10 amps. I don't know why you want to turn off the DC power - but to do so just pop out that big fuse on the top right. 30 amp I assume. Also the outlet I bought is a 12 Amp outlet. The distribution system however is a 15 amp system I believe as the RV power fuse is 15 amp and the 110w plug looks like a normal appliance plug. So my question is... should I have a 12amp fuse in the slot that's running my 12v outlet or a 15 amp fuse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 1 minute ago, AbleThought said: Also the outlet I bought is a 12 Amp outlet. The distribution system however is a 15 amp system I believe as the RV power fuse is 15 amp and the 110w plug looks like a normal appliance plug. So my question is... should I have a 12amp fuse in the slot that's running my 12v outlet or a 15 amp fuse? You are mixing up my brain. No such thing as a "12 amp" outlet that I know of. 10 amp maybe. And a "normal" appliance plug for something like a household wall-plug is 15 amps, 1800 watts, and 120 volts. Not sure where you are getting the "110 watt" figure from. Maybe you mean 110 volts? I'm not trying to nit-pick but I think you've got some of your technical terminology confused. Most 12 volt power outlets are only rated at 10 amps and few HD marine types can be up to 20 amps. You should fuse it for whatever it is rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 29 minutes ago, jdemaris said: You are mixing up my brain. No such thing as a "12 amp" outlet that I know of. 10 amp maybe. And a "normal" appliance plug for something like a household wall-plug is 15 amps, 1800 watts, and 120 volts. Not sure where you are getting the "110 watt" figure from. Maybe you mean 110 volts? I'm not trying to nit-pick but I think you've got some of your technical terminology confused. Most 12 volt power outlets are only rated at 10 amps and few HD marine types can be up to 20 amps. You should fuse it for whatever it is rated. Sorry!! here is a picture of the back of the outlet box says 12 amp on it. thats why I thought it was a 12 amp outlet. Is that not right? i believe my panel is a 15 amp panel so yes all I was asking is if I should have a 12 amp or 15 amp fuse? Sorry if my terminology is off I'm just learning all this watts to amps to volts stuff and it's making my head spin. Just wanted to see if I have this right. The positive lead coming off the new 12v outlet should go under the respective fuse (to the left) and the ground wire wraps in with the others to the right where the white wire is coming from and lastly what fuse I should put in there. Sorry sorry if I'm being confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob C Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 The best way to make sure that you are wiring this is to get out you multimeter (voltmeter) and touch your positive lead to the fuse rail and the negative to the lug on the right. You should have 12 volts +/-. If this is the case, attach your positive wire to the fuse holder (without installing a fuse) and your ground to the other lug. After you have that done, I would install a 10 amp fuse. Do not install a 15 amp fuse because your outlet is only a 12 amp outlet and you should NEVER have a fuse bigger that the lightest rated piece of equipment in the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 14 hours ago, AbleThought said: Sorry!! here is a picture of the back of the outlet box says 12 amp on it. thats why I thought it was a 12 amp outlet. Is that not right? i believe my panel is a 15 amp panel so yes all I was asking is if I should have a 12 amp or 15 amp fuse? Sorry if my terminology is off I'm just learning all this watts to amps to volts stuff and it's making my head spin. It's funny that they rate that outlet at 12 amps. Standard fuses will be 10 amps or 15 amps - no 12 amp for anything commonly found. It comes with 16 gauge wire so it ought to be protected by a 15 amp fuse. Two choices for the hookup. The lug I marked "A" is for negative. Lug marked "B" is for battery positive but means you have to add your own, in-line fuse. Or just use the lug marked "C" and stick a 15 amp fuse in the empty fuse-holder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 4 hours ago, jdemaris said: It's funny that they rate that outlet at 12 amps. Standard fuses will be 10 amps or 15 amps - no 12 amp for anything commonly found. It comes with 16 gauge wire so it ought to be protected by a 15 amp fuse. Two choices for the hookup. The lug I marked "A" is for negative. Lug marked "B" is for battery positive but means you have to add your own, in-line fuse. Or just use the lug marked "C" and stick a 15 amp fuse in the empty fuse-holder. That clears things up so much thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 17 hours ago, Bob C said: The best way to make sure that you are wiring this is to get out you multimeter (voltmeter) and touch your positive lead to the fuse rail and the negative to the lug on the right. You should have 12 volts +/-. If this is the case, attach your positive wire to the fuse holder (without installing a fuse) and your ground to the other lug. After you have that done, I would install a 10 amp fuse. Do not install a 15 amp fuse because your outlet is only a 12 amp outlet and you should NEVER have a fuse bigger that the lightest rated piece of equipment in the line. Thanks for the info. So I should use a 10amp fuse then to be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 I'd use a 10A fuse, otherwise your 12A outlet will become your 'fuse'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 10 minutes ago, Derek up North said: I'd use a 10A fuse, otherwise your 12A outlet will become your 'fuse'. I think that's my plan thanks Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 If it's got 16 gauge wire - using a 15 amp fuse won't hurt a thing. The 12 amp rating is likely given due to the known limitations of any plug and socket connection. Either a 15 amp "fast acting" fuse or a 10 amp "slow blow" fuse will do the job and be safe. We are splitting hairs here and the extra 3 amp rating won't hurt a thing. But if you really want to "hit the nail on the head" - just buy a 12 amp fast-blow fuse. Littlefuse 3AB, 12 amp, for $1.69. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 1 hour ago, jdemaris said: If it's got 16 gauge wire - using a 15 amp fuse won't hurt a thing. The 12 amp rating is likely given due to the known limitations of any plug and socket connection. Either a 15 amp "fast acting" fuse or a 10 amp "slow blow" fuse will do the job and be safe. We are splitting hairs here and the extra 3 amp rating won't hurt a thing. But if you really want to "hit the nail on the head" - just buy a 12 amp fast-blow fuse. Littlefuse 3AB, 12 amp, for $1.69. I think I'll look at my options at the hardware store. Thank you for your help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 13 hours ago, AbleThought said: I think I'll look at my options at the hardware store. Thank you for your help Good luck on that unless your hardware store is a lot better then any where I live. I end up buying near everything that is not "common" on the Net. When it comes to wiring - usually the rule-of-thumb is to fuse by the size of the wire. 16 gauge gets 15 amp protection. If you feel safer with a 10 amp fuse - go ahead. Just lowers your power capability a bit. Same reasoning when you plug in a lamp in your house that likely has a 5 amp rating and you plug it into a 15 or 20 amp outlet. If you opt for a 10 amp fuse - get a time-delay, AKA "slow blow" fuse. Chances are the people at the hardware store will be clueless on the subject. Amp ratings are really about "how many amps for how long" but that is too complicated for the average consumer. Many 15 amp fuses need 30 amps to blow for the first second or so but will finally blow if run over 15 amps for too long. These are "slow blow." There are also instant reacting fuses and with that sort - a 15 amp blow instantly if it current ever exceeds 15 amp (kind of useless). Circuit breakers - like in your house are just about always "slow blow or trip." So a 20 amp circuit breaker will handle 40 amps for a second or two. I'm sure you did not want to hear all this. But this is why I claim using a 15 amp fast-blow fuse with your outlet is fine since the ad says it has 16 gauge wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 4 hours ago, jdemaris said: Good luck on that unless your hardware store is a lot better then any where I live. I end up buying near everything that is not "common" on the Net. When it comes to wiring - usually the rule-of-thumb is to fuse by the size of the wire. 16 gauge gets 15 amp protection. If you feel safer with a 10 amp fuse - go ahead. Just lowers your power capability a bit. Same reasoning when you plug in a lamp in your house that likely has a 5 amp rating and you plug it into a 15 or 20 amp outlet. If you opt for a 10 amp fuse - get a time-delay, AKA "slow blow" fuse. Chances are the people at the hardware store will be clueless on the subject. Amp ratings are really about "how many amps for how long" but that is too complicated for the average consumer. Many 15 amp fuses need 30 amps to blow for the first second or so but will finally blow if run over 15 amps for too long. These are "slow blow." There are also instant reacting fuses and with that sort - a 15 amp blow instantly if it current ever exceeds 15 amp (kind of useless). Circuit breakers - like in your house are just about always "slow blow or trip." So a 20 amp circuit breaker will handle 40 amps for a second or two. I'm sure you did not want to hear all this. But this is why I claim using a 15 amp fast-blow fuse with your outlet is fine since the ad says it has 16 gauge wire. How can I determine if I have a fast or slow blow fuse? Nothing I'm looking at seems to have this info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 You've just got to look for the specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 5 hours ago, jdemaris said: Good luck on that unless your hardware store is a lot better then any where I live. I end up buying near everything that is not "common" on the Net. When it comes to wiring - usually the rule-of-thumb is to fuse by the size of the wire. 16 gauge gets 15 amp protection. If you feel safer with a 10 amp fuse - go ahead. Just lowers your power capability a bit. Same reasoning when you plug in a lamp in your house that likely has a 5 amp rating and you plug it into a 15 or 20 amp outlet. If you opt for a 10 amp fuse - get a time-delay, AKA "slow blow" fuse. Chances are the people at the hardware store will be clueless on the subject. Amp ratings are really about "how many amps for how long" but that is too complicated for the average consumer. Many 15 amp fuses need 30 amps to blow for the first second or so but will finally blow if run over 15 amps for too long. These are "slow blow." There are also instant reacting fuses and with that sort - a 15 amp blow instantly if it current ever exceeds 15 amp (kind of useless). Circuit breakers - like in your house are just about always "slow blow or trip." So a 20 amp circuit breaker will handle 40 amps for a second or two. I'm sure you did not want to hear all this. But this is why I claim using a 15 amp fast-blow fuse with your outlet is fine since the ad says it has 16 gauge wire. Wired the thing into the open lug. I plugged my inverter in and the red indicator on the inverter is stating its not getting enough power to operate. Why is this? My inverter is a small 200-400 watt can't see why the battery can't supply this power most RVs have these 12v cig lighter type outlets that run off the battery don't they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 2 hours ago, AbleThought said: Wired the thing into the open lug. I plugged my inverter in and the red indicator on the inverter is stating its not getting enough power to operate. Why is this? My inverter is a small 200-400 watt can't see why the battery can't supply this power most RVs have these 12v cig lighter type outlets that run off the battery don't they? A 400 watt inverter would need 33 amps to operate at full load. A 200 watt would need 16 amps. Small inverters made for power-ports are rarely bigger then 150 watts. Jiggle the plug around. They often have problems making contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 2 hours ago, jdemaris said: A 400 watt inverter would need 33 amps to operate at full load. A 200 watt would need 16 amps. Small inverters made for power-ports are rarely bigger then 150 watts. Jiggle the plug around. They often have problems making contact. Doesn't seem to help would the inline fuse work better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 2 hours ago, jdemaris said: A 400 watt inverter would need 33 amps to operate at full load. A 200 watt would need 16 amps. Small inverters made for power-ports are rarely bigger then 150 watts. Jiggle the plug around. They often have problems making contact. Am I able to put a higher fuse in here? Is 15amps the max? If I were to go get a 20 amp outlet instead of my 12 amp would that work better? Is 20 amps to much for this panel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 If I wanted to use any inverter in a power-port - I'd be using a HD marine type with a 20 amp rating. The manual with your inverter kind of warns of problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 6 minutes ago, jdemaris said: If I wanted to use any inverter in a power-port - I'd be using a HD marine type with a 20 amp rating. The manual with your inverter kind of warns of problems. I may go get one. The only thing that kept me from doing that is I didn't think the panel could handle anything more than a 15 amp fuse. So I think my last question to figure this out is can I put a 20 amp fuse in the rader? Is that safe. I think my new plan is a 20 amp 12v outlet and 20 amp fuse ( I'm assuming slo-blow ) as long as that's safe to do in the rader... That sound like it will work and be safe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 12 minutes ago, AbleThought said: I may go get one. The only thing that kept me from doing that is I didn't think the panel could handle anything more than a 15 amp fuse. So I think my last question to figure this out is can I put a 20 amp fuse in the rader? Is that safe. I think my new plan is a 20 amp 12v outlet and 20 amp fuse ( I'm assuming slo-blow ) as long as that's safe to do in the rader... That sound like it will work and be safe? You can wire up to a 30 amp circuit into the panel with no problem. But I am wondering -why not just hard-wire an inverter into your RV and not have to rely on any plug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Here is a 30 amp plug. If I had to use a power-port for an inverter - I'd use this with a 30 amp fuse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, jdemaris said: You can wire up to a 30 amp circuit into the panel with no problem. But I am wondering -why not just hard-wire an inverter into your RV and not have to rely on any plug? I'm going to do this!!!! That solves everything. I'll just get a 20 amp fuse and hardwire the thing in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 2 hours ago, jdemaris said: You can wire up to a 30 amp circuit into the panel with no problem. But I am wondering -why not just hard-wire an inverter into your RV and not have to rely on any plug? Just hard wired the converter in with a 20 Amp fuse. Tried both battery lug with online fuse and open lug. Same results. Converter led is still red indicating it's not getting enough power. what's going on.. What am I missing. I have a jeep with a 20 amp power outlet and it work fine in that even with the car off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Hows your ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, WME said: Hows your ground? How would I check that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WME Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 You should have two wires into the inverter the + and the -, where is the - hooked to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbleThought Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) 14 hours ago, WME said: You should have two wires into the inverter the + and the -, where is the - hooked to? The - is hooked to the ground lug. The lug all the way to the bottom right with the white wire coming out of it. Edited April 1, 2016 by AbleThought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 17 hours ago, AbleThought said: Just hard wired the converter in with a 20 Amp fuse. Tried both battery lug with online fuse and open lug. Same results. Converter led is still red indicating it's not getting enough power. what's going on.. What am I missing. I have a jeep with a 20 amp power outlet and it work fine in that even with the car off. Take a voltage reading at the input of the inverter. Has to be 11 volts are higher. That's all there is too it. If the inverter input reads 11 volts or higher where you hooked it up and it keeps giving you a low voltage signal - it is defective. All inverters I know of will not work when input voltage drops below 10.5 to 11 volts (depending on model). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 A is negative and B is positive in this photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek up North Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 I just love the wiring in these things. Red wires used for +ve and -ve!! It's amazing that more of them don't burn to the ground! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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