Up north mi Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Hey I got a question I am installing a progress dynamics 4060 all in inverter how do I ground it ? The existing ground wire goes to the framework is that good enough? Would it be better to run a new wire to the battery? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 2, 2016 Share Posted March 2, 2016 Are you talking about an "inverter" or a "converter?" Big difference. An inverter makes AC power and only uses the chassis-ground for safety A converter makes DC power and uses the chassis-ground - in some circumstances - as a conductor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Hay JD it is a convertor is one unit with breakers one side is for 120v and the other side for 12v .I am not a electric expert just asking questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 3, 2016 Share Posted March 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Up north mi said: Hay JD it is a convertor is one unit with breakers one side is for 120v and the other side for 12v .I am not a electric expert just asking questions So it is a combination DC and AC power-center with two types of wiring. The AC wiring will require something like a 14 gauge or bigger ground wire that goes to the real "earth" ground that goes into the power-cord for shore power and also a vehicle chassis ground. The DC probably has no requirement for any ground. That is up to you. There will simply be a positive and a negative terminal. Both I assume need 10 gauge wire. Often the negative is hooked to chassis ground, just like your cranking battery under the hood is. But it does not have to be. It really depends if the rest of your RV coach uses separate neg and pos wiring or uses the chassis frame as a common carrier. Not really a ground but that is what many call it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 3, 2016 Author Share Posted March 3, 2016 Thanks for the info jd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maineah Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I would think it did have one at some point there most likely was a bare copper wire that came from the truck frame that goes to the converter frame work and one that comes from your breaker box both can be landed at the same place and there maybe a place for it inside of the converter with the rest of the 120 volt wiring. Inside the converter will be a white and black wire they get joined to the power terminals of the converter do not ground the white wire to any thing it's not like house wiring. A power ground is not really a ground until the MH it is plugged in but that's OK because nothing happens any way until it is. Grounds and neutrals have been debated forever the frames in MH are used as AC ground when plugged in to protect the owner from a hot truck body if not when you reached for the door handle you may be come the ground not a real good thing this is why the white wire is not connected to the ground in a camper in case the camp ground wiring was done wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 I have another question, after I installed the new convertor I ran a #2 wire form the convertor to the front of the mh that is where the auxiliary battery is.I installed a new battery isolator so does the #2 wire go to aux terminal first then to the battery or the battery then to the aux terminal ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Up north mi said: iave another question, after I installed the new convertor I ran a #2 wire form the convertor to the front of the mh that is where the auxiliary battery is.I installed a new battery isolator so does the #2 wire go to aux terminal first then to the battery or the battery then to the aux terminal ? You've got my brain all tangled up now. The converter has nothing to do with the isolator. The #2 wire (I assume positive) runs from the converter to the positive terminal on the "house" battery. I don't know what you've done for NEG from the converter. It either needs to be another #2 wire running all the way up the NEG post on the "house" battery. Or - a wire from the NEG of the converter to the frame, and then the NEG post of the "house" battery also to the frame. The isolator has nothing to do with any of this. If ii is a three post isolator it goes like this. Output from the big post on the alternator goes to a post on the isolator - maybe marked "A." Then one of the other posts goes to "cranking" battery positive, and the other post to "house" battery positive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 I have the convertor grounded to the frame and the auxiliary battery grounded to the engine. The hot #2 wire wire runs to the front of the mh ,I put in a new isolator it is a colehesse smart isolator it has two main terminals should the hot wire go to battery before it goes to the isolator or can the hot wire go isolator and then to battery . in other words how do I get juice to the back.I know I have to hook the main battery to one side of the isolator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Isolator has two main terminals. One can be hooked to the positive on the "cranking" battery. The other to the positive on the "house" battery. That is all there is too it. My last comments were thinking you had the rectifier-type solid-state isolator. So again - two main terminals on the isolator. Since it is a "Smart" isolator, it matters which terminal goes to the "cranking" battery and gets priority charge. It will be marked. I attached an image. Call them #1 and #2. #1 goes to POS term of "cranking" battery and #2 goes to the POS term of the "house" battery. POS output from the converter with your #2 wire also gets hooked to the POS terminal of the "house" battery or the "aux-bat" terminal on the new isolator. Makes no difference. Whatever is easiest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 That was my question can I hook the POS from convertor to the aux terminal and the auxiliary battery POS to the same terminal on the isolator? That pic is the isolator I have .the isolator is closer the main battery on one side of the mh and the POS wire from convertor the aux is on the other so I want to run one wire from aux battery to the isolator with both hooked to aux terminal.man this wiring stuffed is not my strong point thanks for making it simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 13 minutes ago, Up north mi said: That was my question can I hook the POS from convertor to the aux terminal and the auxiliary battery POS to the same terminal on the isolator? YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 Thanks again for the info .do you get tired of newbies asking dumb questions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 No, not tired at all. I just find it difficult discussing electrical circuits with words instead of diagrams or schemetics. In this case - one picture IS worth "a thousand words.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 You probably already know this . . but if not. You ought to have a fuse or circuit breaker where that #2 cable connects to the isolator (that runs to the converter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 Yes I went to the auto parts store bought some 30amp fuse it seems small for the #2 wire any suggestions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Yes. But it depends on two factors. First you need a fuse small enough (or breaker) that will blow or trip before the #2 wire can melt. That would be a 100 amp fuse or breaker. The other factor is what is the max amps that will ever want to run down that wire? That will be whatever the max output of your alternator is. That is either 45 amps or 60 amps. If it was mine - I'd wire in a 100 amp fuse or breaker. Like this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 The system I have in my 1988 is a little different. #1 - I have two "house" batteries instead of one, and both are in back and not under the hood. Also - besides the converter - I also have a DC to AC inverter. Also a separate dual-circuit battery maintainer that is only used when the RV is parked in storage. The idea is the same though. I too have a "smart" isolator relay. Not the same brand as your's but works the same. It sends all charge current to the main "cranking" battery until it is fully charged. It then closes and connects the "cranking" battery to the "house" battery system. I've got #2 copper cables. At first I had 60 amp breakers since that is my max rating from my alternator. Never had any problems. But just for the heck of it - I stuck in 100 amp breakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 I seen one of these on your mh in a pic on this forum do I need another one on the main battery side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Up north mi said: I seen one of these on your mh in a pic on this forum do I need another one on the main battery side? Any wire that is hot and can be shorted to ground needs protection. That is anywhere. In 80s vehicles - Toyota had main leads protected by "one time melt" fusible links. Not fuses or circuit breakers. It's a cheap way of protecting a circuit that rarely has a problem. Pretty much there as a "worse case" protector against fire. Most motorhomes that I've looked at that got modified and got batteries and isolators added - did not get protected like they should be. So think about it. You have a # 2 cable running from the converter to the post on the relay/isolator. If - let's say the wire near the isolator got grounded when the vehicle was not running - what would happen? It is not hot so I guess nothing would happen. And when the converter is on - I suppose the power coming out of it is already fused in the power-center/converter assembly. When vehicle is running? If isolator/relay is "closed" then that #2 cable running to the converter is hot. So a fuse or breaker is needed near end of the # 2 cable where it attaches to the relay aux post. ALSO. The power wire that comes off the POS post of the cranking battery is also supposed to have some sort of protection near the battery. Likely you have none. Toyota originally used a 60 amp fusible link but that was often eliminated when coach-makers made RVs out of Toyota trucks. Here is a crude diagram. Hey it cost you nothing so don't complain about my sloppiness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) I am not going to complain about the diagram it shows me exactly what I have, Mine would be a lot worse.you have a lot going on in your mh do you have a electrical degree? One reason I bought a new convertor it looked simple to hook up and the old one didn't have a battery charger when hooked the shore to power.do you have any need for a old convertor you can have it. Edited March 5, 2016 by Up north mi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Up north mi said: I am not going to complain about the diagram it shows me exactly what I have, Mine would be a lot worse.you have a lot going on in your mh do you have a electrical degree? Yes, but I am embarrassed to admit it. Most of my useful learning did not come from getting degrees. More from independent study or actually working on equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Up north mi said: do you have any need for a old convertor you can have it. I hoard stuff but can't say I need it. I have over 20 old converters here from various rigs None - not even the newest ones really do everything I want. Nice thing though is - most new ones are silent when plugged into shore-power. Many old ones buzz all the time. I would not use any converter for battery charging or "maintenance" when parked. Not that they cannot do it. More because I want all my batteries maintained when parked and my rig has three. I use a 10 amp marine charger that is hard-wired in. It is a dual output charger so charges my cranking battery and also my two "house" batteries whenever parked. Keeps them isolated yet keeps them all charged. My converter cannot do that. Neither can your new one. Not unless you turn on your islolator relay or put a jumper wire on it when parked. Not saying my way is the "right" way. It IS a good way though. No messing around. Park and plug in one power cord and I'm all set. ALL batteries kept in top shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Up north mi Posted March 5, 2016 Author Share Posted March 5, 2016 HI see the 10amp charger inside the mh do you have to run wires to both batterys from inside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 5 hours ago, Up north mi said: HI see the 10amp charger inside the mh do you have to run wires to both batterys from inside? My aux "house" batteries are in back so that is an easy hook-up from one of the charger outputs. As I recall I ran a separate wire all the way up front to hook the charger to the cranking battery. It's only capable of 10 amps max so the wire is small gauge. One slight problem with these "Smart" isolators. You might decide you want a cut-off switch on your's. The isolator works by sensing charge voltage to the "cranking" or "main" battery. Once it gets to a voltage around 13 volts - the relay closes and all batteries are connected together. Using a dual-output charger like I have brings the voltage up to over 13.5 volts at the main battery and that makes the isolator relay close. I don't want it using power and energized all the time when parked. So I put a toggle switch on the dash that I can turn off the isolator with. It is an illuminated switch so it lights up whenever the isolator is working and "on." I think I would of wanted the switch even without the added battery maintainer. Why? After driving and you turn the engine off - that isolator stays energized for quite a while. All depends on what it's voltage is set at. Mine is 12.9 or 13 (I forget). I know that after the engine is shut off - it stays on for a long time before the main battery gets low enough voltage to shut-off. And sometimes when it does finally go off - it will come back on a few times and kind of hammer back and forth until the main battery finally gets low enough it stays off. Having the toggle switch makes me feel better. If I forget to turn it "off" when camping - no harm done. If I forget to turn it on when driving - sooner or later I notice that switch is not lit and that reminds me to flip it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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