90 Dolphin - Rot, Rot & Rot - Help

[shibs]

Few year back I bought this from an aged liar who lied about the state of the camper.

Anyway, I went over to change the oil yesterday.

I took pics and here is the inventory of the rot:

1. cab over

2. rear bathroom wall.

3. above dinette window

4. corner above stove

5. floor soft in front of bath door.

the inside is not moldy or does not smell back, I cut the vinyl cover for the cabover from the inside and found delamination.

I really want to rebuilt the ENTIRE structure instead of trying to fix the rot.

Here are my questions

1. Anyone gone down this path, what am I looking at in terms of time?

2. What should make the walls out of ?

3. I am going to reuse most of the cabinets and the bathroom, which I need the most. Can I reuse the potty?

4. Anyone make a box that will fit the rear space? This will save me a lot of time.

5. I am near rv capital in indiana, can any of the RV shops build me a new shell?

6. the edge banding is where all the FAILURE happened, pls educate me on sealing the edges.

Thanks,

Shibs

[linda s]

Don't know how far this is from you but this is one of the only rv bodies that would be able to be transferred to your chassis.

http://richmondin.craigslist.org/rvs/4568827462.html

Solid fiberglass with some work would make a nice water tight camper

Linda S

[jdfrost64]

hi shibs. i,m restoring a sunland express right now replacing %95 of the wood in entire mini pretty much building a new toy home. if you can do the work your self .u are better off. if have a rv center do the work for you .u could buy a new rv. they are not cheap . where about u live ? i live in lower michigan if you need help or parts i can help. my from ground up restore i will have ruffly1600 in my mini. thats with new everything from carpet to roof. i pretty much lived in the rv capital for almost 30 years building rv,s .just message me if you need help. for your time ? i have about 3 months of weekends just in the framing and reskinning the entire mini.inside should go faster since i can work after dark on it. i think around 6 months i should have a brand new toy home.

to let you know i show the pictures of my mini to a rv service tec the labor alone would be close to 9 grand if they did the work

[zero]

Few year back I bought this from an aged liar who lied about the state of the camper.

They may not been lying. Rot is not always easy to see. Often that one "soft spot" or "wrinkle in the wall paper" is just the tip of the ice-berg. I've yet to see an RV that has proper ventilation in the walls and ceilings. If you built a house like that it would rot out in 10-20 years. Any moisture that gets in - stays in. Can be from a roof/wall leak but can also be just from heating a lot in the winter. Campers with fiberglass shells rot too and I've seen several junked Sunraders done in by rot.

I can't imagine trying to pay someone for the work. Way too much labor if you want a good job. Good for an off-season project. I've done several. My opinion is - take it one section at a time. I've see a few Dolphins and Minicruisers get completely stripped. Then the owners got overwhelmed and ended up junking them.

I spend most of an entire winter just doing the roof. walls, and floor on my 78 Chinook (with fiberglass shell). I just spend near 3 weeks just doing the bathroom and over-cab-bunk area of my Minicruiser. When I got it - all that was visible was a sort of blemish and soft spot in the vinyl wallpaper. Once I tore into it- getting to a unrotted area that was dry was difficult. I stripped the walls- and then ran an electric heater inside for a week. Took that long to get the insides of the walls dry. Then I was able to glue some new plywood in and replace many wood supports. I used rot-resistant white oak for supports. Plywood was either marine-grade Douglas Fir 3/8" with exterior glue - or 1/4" Birch with exterior glue. I suggest you stay away from Luan - if you can actually find any. All I've see sold as underlayment comes with interior glue and delaminates.

Good luck. One other note. On my Minicruiser - I also pulled off the exterior skins part-way so the sun could hit the plywood on the exterior and dry them out. They were also all soaking wet. Once dry I was able to replace rotted areas by gluing in new pieces.

I think the hardest part of job was the edge-trim-seams. They had years and years worth of sealant out over them. Most of the screws were rusted off. Big mess. Scraping clean was a lot of work. When I put them all back on I used stainless steel screws everywhere. Cheap investment.

[jdfrost64]

robert weed sell the right wood for your mini . they are the major supplier for the rv factories. it,s in bristal indiana. the factory size wood they use in rv,s is usally 2.7 mm for laminated sheet metal and paneling. 5.2 mm for roofs and side wall skin

[Derek up North]

But do they sell 'Retail', a sheet or two at a time?

[zero]

Why would someone be concerned with getting only the type of wood that was used OEM? Lots of cost cutting is done and RVs usually are not built for longevity. Much of the Luan that was used over the years had interior glue and delaminated pretty easy. NOT something I'd want to install again. With all the moisture that gets trapped in the walls, floors and ceilings of RVs - I'd prefer something with exterior glue and a rot-resistant hard-wood.

[shibs]

Don't know how far this is from you but this is one of the only rv bodies that would be able to be transferred to your chassis.

http://richmondin.craigslist.org/rvs/4568827462.html

Solid fiberglass with some work would make a nice water tight camper

Linda S

Linda,

It is within driving distance, so I can gut out the inside and fix any fiberglass issues and then sanitize the inside and use it?

How is the shell bolted to the frame/floor? does the fiberglass shell include the floor?

I took some pic of the underside and I saw some large on arms extending out of the frame.

[linda s]

Think the shell is bolted on with only 4 bolts. The floor will probably need major repair but not that hard once the cabinets and other stuff are out. I would resupport that floor from the inside before you remove it from the chassis. I would try to save the bathroom shell for reuse. Don't know how you would lift the whole thing but other guys here have done it. Yes the fiberglass shell should clean up nicely. Think of all the old boats sitting outside and everything is gone except for that fiberglass shell. Same thing.

Linda S

Search this site for rebuilding Sunrader and maybe you can get some ideas

[shibs]

hi shibs. i,m restoring a sunland express right now replacing %95 of the wood in entire mini pretty much building a new toy home. if you can do the work your self .u are better off. if have a rv center do the work for you .u could buy a new rv. they are not cheap . where about u live ? i live in lower michigan if you need help or parts i can help. my from ground up restore i will have ruffly1600 in my mini. thats with new everything from carpet to roof. i pretty much lived in the rv capital for almost 30 years building rv,s .just message me if you need help. for your time ? i have about 3 months of weekends just in the framing and reskinning the entire mini.inside should go faster since i can work after dark on it. i think around 6 months i should have a brand new toy home.

to let you know i show the pictures of my mini to a rv service tec the labor alone would be close to 9 grand if they did the work

JD,

That is very generous of you, I am near GR airport and the camper is in Dorr.

Pls pm me back your contact info, I want see it first hand to build confidence, I have NO experience in repairing any laminated wood etc.

Wow, you are going all out, I like that. I am glad you are doing it right.

3 months of weekends in just framing and skinning! I am not sure if I can commit to that many hours, I am single dad of 2 very high maint little girls.

9k for total rebuild. But I want an empty shell, just like a straight truck box. Won't any of the prefabbed boxes fit the width and the length and then mate it to the cab with bellows or something?

[jdfrost64]

not to be rude jdemaris if people knew how a rv was built they would know why using oem parts makes it easyer and the right why to do it. rv,s get there suport by interlocking together like a puzzle.the walls roof inter lockes together . start scabbing wood together then thats what you get a weak frameed rv that will probly leak because nothing will go back together right.and as for the luan it is just as strong if not stronger than any other wood . its all made out of hardwood real luan comes out of asia. as for the glue thing what u think plain pine fir or any other plywood has in .its all glues together. if any wood gets wet it will rot.if you maintance rv,s like they should be the will last a long time

[shibs]

Why would someone be concerned with getting only the type of wood that was used OEM? Lots of cost cutting is done and RVs usually are not built for longevity. Much of the Luan that was used over the years had interior glue and delaminated pretty easy. NOT something I'd want to install again. With all the moisture that gets trapped in the walls, floors and ceilings of RVs - I'd prefer something with exterior glue and a rot-resistant hard-wood.

Amen, I agree, if I go that route I am going to stay away from wood products for the walls.

I found a fiberglass sandwich board producer in zeeland, mi. which is about 30 miles from me. I called them and they can make 4x8 panels. I can't recall the name right now, but I will dig it up later.

check this out:

http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17786&hilit=sandwich+panel+caravan&sid=01897f5352559ca0f856d832b1856c8e

and this is the one that inspired me to take a 2nd look:

http://thesupercamper.blogspot.com/2006/09/super-camper-inspiration-concept-and.html

[Derek up North]

These guys?

http://www.plascore.com/

[shibs]

Here are the details of the toyo:

90 v6 dolphin

90k miles,

tires are in good shape.

[shibs]

These guys?

http://www.plascore.com/

Yeeeeeesssssssssss Sir! Thanks

[linda s]

This was on the Mega RV count down on the travel channel. All made from aluminum composite panels and the builder said it was all glued together. No bolts or screw in the shell construction.

http://www.travelchannel.com/tv-shows/mega-rv-countdown/photos/mega-rv-countdown-pictures?page=7

Linda S

[zero]

not to be rude jdemaris if people knew how a rv was built they would know why using oem parts makes it easyer and the right why to do it. rv,s get there suport by interlocking together like a puzzle.the walls roof inter lockes together . start scabbing wood together then thats what you get a weak frameed rv that will probly leak because nothing will go back together right.and as for the luan it is just as strong if not stronger than any other wood . its all made out of hardwood real luan comes out of asia. as for the glue thing what u think plain pine fir or any other plywood has in .its all glues together. if any wood gets wet it will rot.if you maintance rv,s like they should be the will last a long time

I don't wish to be rude either. That being said - from your comments - sounds to me like you know little about glue used to bond plywood. Generally speaking, plywood comes with water-soluble glue . . or water-proof glue. Plywood with water-proof glue usually has a "X" in it's grade designation. That "X" stands for "exterior glue" made to withstand moisture. I've yet to see Luan that was made in X-grade. Luan was commonly used for interior door skins and underlayment in interior floors. It's key feature was that it was cheap from overseas and the US market was flooded with it for a long time. I've worked on countless RVs with delaminated Luan plywood. So I guess we can all have our own opinions and have them based on something. Mine are based on all Luan I've seen fall apart before the actual wood rotted in RVs. I also claim that RV makers used it because it was cheap. Not for intrinsic qualities of endurance.

If you go to a lumber yard or Home Depot to look at stock conventional lumber - all the plywood sold for exterior sheathing will be X grade. Often CDX in pine. CDX means one side is C-grade for finish, the other is D grade for finish (rougher with more voids) and the glue used is waterproof.

When it comes to thin plywood in the 4.5 mm, 5 mm, 7/32", 1/4", etc. - any Luan I've ever seen in the past 40 years had interior glue and Asian or South American Mahogany or some equiv. Now - China is flooding the US market with 7/32" hardwood with exterior glue that's been taking the place of Luan. Seems to be excellent and priced at $12 a 4' X 8' sheet. Note there are major lawsuits underway right now with US wood sellers claiming that China is selling the plywood at under cost. Fine with me. Makes it cheaper to buy.

As far as plywood strength goes - that is all about the wood species and/or how many plies that cross each other. You can buy 1/2" plywood in pine and the 3 ply version will be MUCH weaker then the 4 ply version.

Plywood longevity is about wood species UNLESS it's been chemical treated, and type of glue used.

In regard to "caring for an RV" to make it last? RVs are just plain built awful. At least for a structure that spends a lot of time outdoors and exposed to the elements. Not sure how you can "care" for it other then store it out of the weather as much as possible and keep the seams sealed. A typical RV wall, floor, or ceiling has NO venting to let moisture escape. Moisture can get in even if NO leaks - and get trapped. That is why - when you build a house - lots of venting must be used. Especially between heated areas and unheated areas where water vapor condenses. Building code in my area does not even permit wood to touch foam insulation anymore. I have to install a fiberglass mesh to provide some air flow between the foam and wood. Look at RVs. They put the skins and foam sheets right against the wood.

One more response to a comment you made. You claim "any wood rots when it gets wet." That is far from true. If wood gets wet - but venting lets it dry again - it is not prone to rot. Also many species of wood have natural rot resistance. E.g. white oak, tamarack, white cedar. osage-orange, black locust, redwood, juniper, etc. Same goes for chemically treated woods. If what you say was true - we'd have no house foundations built from wood, nor would be have wood utility poles or wood docks..

[zero]

This was on the Mega RV count down on the travel channel. All made from aluminum composite panels and the builder said it was all glued together. No bolts or screw in the shell construction.

http://www.travelchannel.com/tv-shows/mega-rv-countdown/photos/mega-rv-countdown-pictures?page=7

Linda S

There are some upscale boats being built like that too. The "jury is still out" in regard to how well they will work out. Lot of complaints with adhesion problems between different materials.