When removing Sunrader shell, do I just cut the fiberglass off at the floor?

[runfromturtles]

I discovered my floor is rotted horribly it's all going to have to be redone from scratch. Removing all this rotted wood is going to be challenging. It appears that the flooring is fiberglassed into the walls. So when removing the floor, theres no problems cutting through this fiberglass right? It's all going to have to be re attached to the newly built floor? I figured out why my outside "barn" door wasn't shutting correctly. The dry rot over the bathroom has caused the sides to droop slightly.

I might just remove the shell right now. Haven't found the truck it's going to go on yet. Not looking forward to building a floor and glassing it. I am definitely in over my head and will likely get stuck at some point. One step at a time I guess. I have little to none building experience

[linda s]

Better to remove the cabinets and reinforce the floor. I used resin and hardiner on the rotted parts of mine. Drilled small holes so it could penetrate the wood better and covered the floor with it. After it hardened I screwed down 1/4 inch luan but Would have been better using little bit thicker. Added some more support underneath with light weight c channel across the bottom attached to heavier framing there. Building an all new floor and reattaching it to the fiberglass shell is beyond the ability of most and certainly me. originally done under pressure in a big factory

Linda S

[runfromturtles]

It is OK to have little to no building experience, everyone starts out that way unless they grew up with a parent who did it for a living.

Instead of letting it be overwhelming you need to start thinking of things as a system of components. The floor is a sub system which is itself a structual system. The floor consist of several layers you build up rather like a layer cake. Layer one is a water resistant material that faces down to the road, layer two is a piece of thin plywood, layer three is insulating foam and layer four is another piece of plywood. Adhesives bond the layers together into a single component.

Now here is a tricky part, because the plywood and foam sheets don't come as large as a Sunrader floor they do have some overlapping areas to bind it all together. On my 1980 Sunrader there are strips of solid wood used in place of foam at the joints where a plywood sheet edge butted against the next plywood sheet edge. That helped tie the panels together into one larger structural unit.

You wil indeed need to cut into the fiberglass on the inside of the rig where it comes up from being layed over the floor and runs up onto the walls of the fiberglass shell. Just be carefull you do not cut through to the outside of the fiberglass shell. I am finding the Dremel Saw-Max to be handy fGor doing this kind of work. It has a 3/4" maximumim depth of cut but can do flush cuts with the appropriate blade. It can do plunge cuts and can be guided along a straight edge. But it won't get you all the way into tight corners, for that you will have to switch to a regular Dremel with a pointed tip that can cut fiberglass.

For fiberglass work good hand control and patience is the key along with suiting up with a properly fitted respirator mask and tyvek overalls, hat, gloves goggles, etc. The less skin you have exposed the better.

When working with fiberglass I always rub some of Eucirin orginal formula skin cream into my face, neck, hands, harms, anywhere that fibers might cling to. You should be able to buy it at most any drug store but you do need the orignal formula which is quite thick and a bit waxy feeling, not one of the newer version formulas of the product. That cream acts as an excellent barrier cream to keep the fibers from getting stuck into my skin and it is non irritating cream, non greasy. Then when I wash up always starting with cool water so the pores don't open. One other word to the wise, never sit on your furniture, sit on a car seat or lie on your bed with clothes that have fiberglass residue on them as it is next to impossible to get out if it transfers to those surfaces. I wear old clothes for this kind of job or I go to the thrift store and purchase the cheapest clothes I can find and plan on throwing them out. I am very sensitive to fiberglass and resins but I manage to get the job done. Don't do this job during the hottest part of a hot day, it is misery to be fully suited up and the heat makes you itch even more!

Would it be easier to remove the shell from the truck before I redo the floor? There is the possibility that only the back end is rotted. Having trouble understanding where my cutting point should be. Right before the curve of the wall? Or should I cut further inside nearer to where the fiberglass first meets the floor. I guess if i'm removing the entire floor I would have to cut closest to the wall. I just hope my epoxy skills will allow me to put this thing back together. When I bought a sunrader I was under the impression they were pretty much invincible to rot. I had no idea about the wood that is imbedded into the entire frame.

What about the ceiling, it looks like I have some rot on the ceiling too, should I cut into that fiberglass too? YIKES. I know the results of this. It will soon be an ad on craigslist of a shell beyond repair

[RHS]

You would really be surprised if you knew how many wooden boats around puget sound had some BAD rot soaked with epoxy & in some cases stronger than original. It is not someting that very many want to advertise but it is true. There is a product called 'git rott' (can't remember spelling) it was a 2 part epoxy that was as thin as water dried like rock penetrated very well. The rotted wood just becomes a filler. Where would us old renovators be with out epoxy. I sure hope the inventor made some money off that amazing product.

[runfromturtles]

Go outside and put a line of masking tape a few feet long wrapping around the back corner of your Sunrader to represent your floor level on the inside. Then stand back and look at the curvature of the lower edge of your rig. Note that the fiberglass body of the Sunrader curves back under the floor. Now put your thinking cap on and tell us if you can lift that fiberglass body up and over the floor, put a new floor in and then lower it back down over the floor.

Lesson one in construction first take a really close look observing all details, then analyze what is possible given the physical constraints of the components.

The Sunrader will have been built with the molded shell held up in position relative to the truck frame whle the floor panels were placed into position on top of the steel truck framing that supports the floor. The plywood floor system would have been installed in panelized sections, not as a single piece but those panels will have been bonded together with adhesive and staples at the joins. Those floor panels would have then been bolted in place through the holes in the steel frame. Then an installer will have taken fiberglass matting sheets and using resin he will have created the curved inner fiberglass area that joined the plywood floor to the molded fiberglass shell. Do understand the fiberglass matting the installer put in at that time will be rather thick in that area near the molded shell as there will be a number of layers of matting there. They don't make 90 degree bend, they build up a curvature as it is less likely to fracture as there is not an abrupt stress line. You will need to do the same thing after you replace the plywood. Make no mistake it is a nasty, dusty job to grind out and clean up that area so you get a nice, strong new joint that also looks OK.

A shell beyond repair would be one that had considerable damage to the molded fiberglass shell. Your shell is not the problem. The floor is attached to the fiberglass shell with some layers of fiberglass cloth but it is not part of the fiberglass shell. The ceiling panels are not part of the fiberglass shell either. The lower plywood panel of the ceiling is not actually attached to the fiberglass, it is suspended with staples and adhesive onto the blocking strips that are adhered to the fiberglass. Take a small flat bladed screwdriver and try poking it up into that ceiling plywood. If it is truly rotted there will be little resistance and you will be able to wiggle that screw driver around pulling out rotted wood. If you feel some resistance after going through the ceiling paper what you are looking at is mostly just discoloration from a leak.

But I do think if you are a true beginner and have little to no skills and can't visualize in 3 dimensions that you are going to be overwhelmed with this project. As helpful as this group is as a true beginner your best bet is to find a family member, good friend or good neighbor to be on call to come over to your project and help you see and understand what needs to be done. I am not saying you can't do this project, just saying you will be much better off with some hands on assistance along the way. For instance having someone who can take a black marker pen and draw a cut line for you follow. Someone who can lend you a few tools now and again.

Be aware that if the rot in the floor at the rear extends across that whole area then any cabinets, water heaters, water lines, the electrical converter, propane tank, water tank, pumps, cabinets, etc, meaning anything that is sitting on top of that floor will have to be taken out of the rig so you can replace the plywood floor. Then you will have to put it all back again but you won't have the old screw locations as a reference point for where it all was previously located to screw it back down to. Plus you will have to be drilling new holes for any components that went on through the flooring such as plumbing or electrical wires.

Your post is VERY much appreciated. I have already gutted the entire shell except for the flooring. It is bare bone down to the shell. It was quite fun

I know that as a beginner as long as I take things 1 small step at a time it usually works out. Believe me i'd love to just put some epoxy down there, but the side is drooping. I'll provide a picture in a few minutes of whats happening.

Thanks for your patience with me!!!

[linda s]

You would really be surprised if you knew how many wooden boats around puget sound had some BAD rot soaked with epoxy & in some cases stronger than original. It is not someting that very many want to advertise but it is true. There is a product called 'git rott' (can't remember spelling) it was a 2 part epoxy that was as thin as water dried like rock penetrated very well. The rotted wood just becomes a filler. Where would us old renovators be with out epoxy. I sure hope the inventor made some money off that amazing product.

Yes thank you. I figure if it's good enough for "This Old House" it's good enough for me. I do know that if you remove the compression made floor from the compression fitted shell you have a crazy big job on your hands ever getting a solid structure again. We don't all have a complete factory to work with and my floor is just fine.

Linda S

Oh and my surface was so hard I went through lots of screws trying to get them into the surface while trying to put my overlay down. Had to go back and buy stronger ones

[Dolphinite no longer here]

Karin,

As a retired shipwright that worked mostly in the Pacific Northwest and Alaska, I have to agree with you when it comes to Git Rot. In the boat yards that I worked in, Git Rot was jokingly referred to as "Shipwright In A Can". The stuff is WAY overrated. The only way to effectively treat wood rot (and its not actually "dry rot" by the way, which is a completely different animal and somewhat rare in the marine world) is to tear out the rotted wood and replace it with new wood.

It seems like many of us Toyota motorhome owners often have to deal with some wood rot in our rigs and there are a several ways to fix small areas that don't necessarily entail digging out the rotted stuff and replacing with new wood. One of the areas that rot MUST be removed from is structural areas. Straight bleach will kill rot spores nicely but the problem is getting the bleach to penetrate everywhere. Of course, after the bleach dries, all the rotted wood has to be completely encapsulated in two part epoxy-not an easy job in some of the tight areas that water gets into without disassembling much of the surrounding area. Anyway, Git Rot sucks...

John

[runfromturtles]

Thanks again for the info. Heres some pics of my progress to give you an idea where i'm at here. I agree Karin that making things level will be the biggest challenge. But I have a great indicator for that on this shell. The rear hatch door will easily tell me if something is wrong or uneven as it won't be able to close unless it's just right. I am now working on removing the shell from the truck. The truck itself is in very sorry and rusty shape. The frame is beyond my abilities. So I will park the shell until I find a decent truck to build upon. I would really like to rebuild the floor before I get the truck because I don't know how long it will be, before I find the right one.

This is my favorite part about the 1978 sunrader, the rear hatch...or whatever you want to call it.

Sinking rotted floor

I can see daylight through the skin. It appears it had fiberglass on the bottom section.

[RHS]

I told you what you wouldhere about epoxy in wooden boats Ilived in everett marina & know what the repair people including me did. I have never used git rot on a motor home, but have used some epoxy sparingly. The problem people had in the boats was trying to use epoxy when it was not completely dry & that can be very hard with a boat. I would not cut the fiberglass off the floor. But then I am not the expert, I have repaired a number of floors however.

[runfromturtles]

I told you what you wouldhere about epoxy in wooden boats Ilived in everett marina & know what the repair people including me did. I have never used git rot on a motor home, but have used some epoxy sparingly. The problem people had in the boats was trying to use epoxy when it was not completely dry & that can be very hard with a boat. I would not cut the fiberglass off the floor. But then I am not the expert, I have repaired a number of floors however.

Well I will at least be cutting out a few feet of it. Depending how far the rot goes.

[RHS]

I owe an appology to karin & dolphinite I did not mean to insult any one. I don't know why I got onto git rot. Replacing rotted wood with good wood is the best way to go.

[linda s]

I too agree that the damage is far beyond what any quick fix would take care of. You say your a noobie but by the time your done with this feel free to upgrade your experience level to expert. Hope it comes out OK for you. I really like these rear door models too and love it when people save them.

Linda S

[MontanaChinook]

Well that gutted photo looks familiar! It actually makes me feel like ice made some progress on my Chinook...

You have some work ahead of you! It'll mostly be fun.

My advice, which someone else gave me....

Take your time. Don't set arbitrary timelines you then have to rush and stress about and cut corners to make. It'll take as long as it takes. Research stuff. And do it right. Try not to say "good enough" too often. It'll happen, but try to do it well, not "good enough".

I didn't take the part of the good advice which was to "not make a huge project out of it. Make priorities and do one thing at a time, not one whole huge project" either.

But you didn't have much choice.

I'll say I've been overwhelmed multiple times. But every time I get that way, in another couple days I'm back to "one thing at a time" and not getting stressed about everything that's left to do, and things just keep moving along.

Demolition is the easy part and it seems like it makes perfect sense how things will go back together. But it won't...

[Dolphinite no longer here]

RHS,

Don't think you insulted anyone here because you didn't. You just stated your opinion on something and that's okay. There are plenty of opinions on this site and they are all welcome...

John

[Stevo]

Wow, I've never seen a Sunrader motorhome with a big swing-up back door like that! Must be rare, eh?

[linda s]

Wow, I've never seen a Sunrader motorhome with a big swing-up back door like that! Must be rare, eh?

The very first motorhomes were based on the earlier truck camper which had the big door in the back. They are neat huh. They also has a huge bed in the overhead, queen size I think. You slept front to back not side to side

Linda S