Quaker State Defy high zddp oil

[stamar]

seems like the perfect oil for 22re

a lot of people switch to 15 40 diesel oil so that the engine gets enough zinc because modern 10 30 has no zinc.... bcause modern engines have no rollers and tappets.

which isnt terrible in itself for an older engine going up in viscosity sometimes. Also the toyhome probably overheats oil

but this is a semi synthetic, zinc 10 30 so its the correct viscosity, correct zinc, semi synthetic.

http://www.quakerstate.com/#/motor-oil/defy?gclid=CKmD1_v2gbICFeJgTAoduGwAYA

I just got a 5 quart at walmart for 15$ so its also very cheap.

This oil says toyota 22re all over it. Its got to be like half the target market.

Anyhow last oil change was rotella diesel oil, this one is defy. Defy is the same price but its also semi synthetic. cheap and good Im sold.

[Davidadro]

...bcause modern engines have no rollers and tappets.

Do you mean Lifters? Even Overhead cam motors have a valve side tappet of the rocker cups and rollers on the cam side. I agree with your summation about oil choices though.

[stamar]

Oh I mean whichever ohc engines need zinc .

Its not an ohv engine ohc engine thing.

at this point other than.... corvettes, truck diesels ( even gas trucks are finally ohc) engines are all ohc.

But its called flat tappet engine or something like that where an extreme friction modifier is needed. Modern engines dont need it and it causes pollution.

I think a lot of r22es are dying because of this.

I changed the oil after only about 2000 miles but it was filthy. I dont know if thats good or not this is just the 2nd change. might be detergenting out years of sludge.

I do all the maintenance on 4 vehicles so I change a lot of oil. my bmw needs zinc but it takes 20 50w which still has zinc anyway.

the ford f150 takes synthetic 5-20 the camaro is the only one that takes regular 10 30 dino oil but iit never is driven.

[stamar]

The only other zddp added oil ive seen is very expensive, and its dino oil, its made for racing. valvoline vr.

on another area most people would say that full synthetic is a waste because it wont stay clean long enough.

So this is perfect its a semi synthetic zddp 10/30 theres nothing else like that so far as I know. A full synthetic would be at least as good, but too expensive at twice as expensive for a full synthetic 10/30with high zddp ( castrol edge)

[Derek up North]

Given the fact that ZDDP is discussed so rarely (never here, once in the Yahoo Group in 2009) I'm going to assume that lack of ZDDP is not a problem for our engines.

[Maineah]

General consensus diesel spec. oil should not be used in gas engines. Most MH's don't do enough miles per year to worry about synthetic oils, usually oil gets changed once a year in a MH so it's hardly worth the expense. It might be different if the engines had issues but with reasonable care they will run several hundred thousand miles any way.

[stamar]

in yotatech its widely discussed that 22r and re need zinc. Or bob is th oil guy. Our just googling does the

does the 22rre need zddp

Using rotella in my toyota truck etc etc.

General consensus is using diesel oil in a toyota truck is great just the thickness is a little high.

People have been using rotella in toyota trucks and other engines from the 80-early 90s for 10 years or more. There is definitely no consensus not to use ddiesel oil in gas engines, including from the manufacturer.

It meets all the standards of the time our engine was made and it has moore friction additive than an oil made for a more modern engine.

Thats why it became huge wellcome to toyota trucks you two.

[Derek up North]

I spent years on a Forum where ZDDP was discussed about as frequently as 'correct tires' is here. I'm trying to avoid doing it again!

I did a quick Google before my first post. Didn't read everything. But among the first I looked at seem to suggest using something ZDDP in a new engine being broken in (especially camshaft lube). This is in line with my past readings.

http://www.bobistheo...&Number=1723768

http://www.pirate4x4...p/t-804434.html

But I think there are more than 2 offerings with ZDDP. And of course there will be a never ending debate about how much ZDDP (PPM) is enough!

oils_and_zddp.pdf

[stamar]

In general as much as you can get is good theres no tooo much.

This is a flat tappet engine when it was made oil had more zinc than today.

Especially 10-30 oil

there really isnt too much of a debate as to whether the 22re needs zddp oil actually. there isnt even a minority fringe that thinks it doesnt.

most of the years of reliability of the 18r-22re engine were from days when all off the shelf oil had zddp.

as to how much zddp defy has, they dont tell you.

mobil 1 tells you how much on their site.

How much zddp each oil has isnt always known. In this case they mention it in their advertising but they might not use enough.

Its a brand new product I dont know at all myself. But there is a number to shoot for widely known something like 1200 ppm.

[Derek up North]

In general as much as you can get is good theres no tooo much.

"A higher level of ZDDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

So, more is not necessarily better. It's a good idea to keep this in mind before using high-ZDDP racing oil, diesel oil, or any other additives in a street engine."

- GM lubrication guru, Bob Olree, of the GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants

Group.

Like I said, "Never ending debate".

[Davidadro]

I believe all Chrysler automobiles using the 5.7 HEMI are still a OHV as well? Zinc has been a very important additive to oils for over 70 years, and helps our camshafts from wearing on the lobes. Yes, due to the stringent emissions regulations, oil companies have been pressured to remove zinc from oil, as it compromises the function of the catalytic converter. So, this necessary component for our older tech engine design maybe a concern by its removal, even though they are OHC?

I remember the days of soft valve seats and the advent of unleaded fuels, and those of us having to put additives in our motors to keep from burning and dropping our valves. I found some specs that provide the current ZDDP content for 10W-30 and 15W-40. This is a good subject Stamar, and thanks to all for posting the awareness to this concern, pro or con. If you are PRO, here are the specs:

10W-30

AMSOIL (old) none

AMSOIL (new) none

Castrol GTX .12

Chevron Supreme .11

Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 .11

Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 .13

Havoline Formula 3 none

Kendall GT-1 .16

Mobil 1 none

Pennzoil PLZ Turbo none

Quaker State none

Red Line none

Shell Fire and Ice .12

Shell Super 2000 .13

Shell Truck Guard .15

Spectro Golden M.G. none

Unocal Super .12

Valvoline All Climate .11

Valvoline Turbo .13

Valvoline Race .20

Valvoline Synthetic .12

15W-40

AMSOIL (old) none

AMSOIL (new) none

Castrol .14

Chevron Delo 400 none

Exxon XD3 .14

Exxon XD3 Extra .13

Kendall GT-1 .16

Mystic JT8 .15

Red Line none

Shell Rotella w/XLA .13

Valvoline All Fleet .15

Valvoline Turbo .13

[stamar]

There is a key point in what mainah said though thats undeniable. Toyhomes dont actually need the kind of maintenance a truck has because there are none that are at 300k miles anyway.

In fact at this rate my toyhome will have 300k miles in 2075. So with that in perspective maybe using full synthetic amsoil isnt what I need to worry about.

as far as oil that actually has too much zddp I think only that vr racing oil has too much. like 1500 ppm vs 1200 ppm.

A full breakdown of which oils are good enough for a 22re is probably on yotatech and bobistheoilguy, seeing as this is the most common engine in use on planet earth right now.

Oh anyway one other thing I was going to say, is that because using diesel oil is so common now, and they dont even stock diesel oil in a seperate spot anymore, I noticed wallmart has a section called :universal oil. This is oil that is good for diesels and gas engines, meaning it has the zinc

the reason everyone flocked to using diesel oil is here in america a diesel engine is still an ohv engine that needs zinc, so anything good for a diesel is good for their older gas engine.

Now it has more detergents than a gas engine needs. So then the trend is to call it universal oil. But at the same time, now they are marketing non diesel high zinc oil which is going to be the exact stuff you need.

[stamar]

It is possible that when it is all said and done

that defy has the same zddp as castrol gtx. Wouldnt suprise me.

But I choose it because I dont have a list handy and I want what says zinc on the bottle. I dont claim to have all the numbers memorized.

Last time I went for oil i got the rotella because I knew it had the zddp. I think rotella and quaker state are actually the same company anyway.

I didnt get it because I like diesel oil or 15 -40

next time I might get.... chevron or castrol if I can remember based on that chart.